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A woman's response/rant against "real men" posts on the internet

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    #32
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    6 posts in and we already have men being associated with rape.

    I'm not sure women need to be extreme feminists any more with lads coming to these conclusions.

    Some extreme lad feminists will certainly come up with that argument. I was pointing it out and, in the post that you quoted, said I didn't think it was condoning rape.

    Honestly, both sides will try to discredit the other side. There's no harm in being wary of being called a misogynist and, to a lesser extent, misandrist.

    In retrospect, I think she was talking about a bit of a mixed message going on. If a woman does something to explicitly pleasure a man, then it's seen as oppressive. But if a man does something to explicitly pleasure a woman, then it is seen as progressive.


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    #33
    Mister R
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭Mister R


    Great piece I bookmarked it for future reference :) Sums up modern society perfectly. Also I can't deal with the second comment about how women see unrealistic expectations of themselves in the media. Men have body issues too which never get addressed, like I don't feel great about myself when I see guys with six packs, pecs and nice arms etc.


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    #34
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Why can't this very valid issue be discussed without all the hostility towards women and the "Every woman" stuff?

    By the way, I am not belittling the experiences of men - I'm well aware of the crap men can have to deal with purely just for being men.

    I am not sure where you are getting the hostility but I am glad you are well aware of 'the crap men have to deal with' but unfortunately not everyone is aware of it.


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    #35
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    Mister R wrote: »
    Great piece I bookmarked it for future reference :) Sums up modern society perfectly. Also I can't deal with the second comment about how women see unrealistic expectations of themselves in the media. Men have body issues too which never get addressed, like I don't feel great about myself when I see guys with six packs, pecs and nice arms etc.

    +1

    eg, you have to laugh at this!

    I've never had a great self image and I know that I'm probably never going to find myself surrounded by girl boners I know I can't stop myself being excessively hard on myself. However, where women who are being buffeted by pressure to look this, that and the other way, often by women's magazines and similar media, there is an opposing drive for women to not fall for the hysteria. However, it is increasingly acceptable these days for men to be pressured to be buff, ripped and a ton of other terms I don't understand.


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    #36
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    I have to sya for the most part Irish women aren't that bad, but I remember once I hooked up with a girl and she actually came out with the line of " I have the pussy you have to do what I say" like I was a slave to sex. Some women honestly believe that men are walking penises with no cohearent thoughts of sex and your one had literally no clue as to why I told her to leave my house
    A good friend of mine is with a girl like this. Only thing he seems to get out of the relationship is regular sex whilst she gets a taxi-driver, a babysitter, a house cleaner, someone to split the bills with and an all purpose skivvy... whilst pressuring him into not seeing his friends or pursuing his hobbies. She's one of those "any engagement ring would have to cost five figures" types and constantly drops "hints" about that and whining about how she wants more kids...

    He's utterly pussy blinded though so all we can do is hope he finally sees sense before she has an "accident" with contraception.


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    #37
    Sauve
    Registered Users Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    Sleepy wrote: »
    A good friend of mine is with a girl like this. Only thing he seems to get out of the relationship is regular sex whilst she gets a taxi-driver, a babysitter, a house cleaner, someone to split the bills with and an all purpose skivvy... whilst pressuring him into not seeing his friends or pursuing his hobbies. She's one of those "any engagement ring would have to cost five figures" types and constantly drops "hints" about that and whining about how she wants more kids...

    He's utterly pussy blinded though so all we can do is hope he finally sees sense before she has an "accident" with contraception.

    I'd be sitting a friend like that down for a good long chat tbh. What you're describing borders on emotional abuse.


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    #38
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Unfortunately, a closer friend than me has had that chat already... he seems to think he can change her / help her grow up.


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    #39
    Sauve
    Registered Users Posts: 22,646 ✭✭✭✭Sauve


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Unfortunately, a closer friend than me has had that chat already... he seems to think he can change her / help her grow up.

    :/
    People like that don't change. Like you said, let's hope the penny drops for him.


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    #40
    Soft Falling Rain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Soft Falling Rain


    Doesn't sound like she has to grow up, sounds like she knows exactly what she's doing. What you are describing is not a case of immaturity IMO.


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    #41
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Why is it ok for a woman to give a man a present of toolbox, spanner set etc. for Christmas but if he gives her a nice new iron and ironing board he is the worst in the world

    Not true. Plenty of women would love a kitchen aid mixer. Or a gift cert to Sephora.

    I need an iron if anyone wants to buy me one for Christmas. No promise that I'll use it though.

    Blog is a crock of ****.


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    #42
    CdeC
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭CdeC


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    wrote:
    Sex? Only if she feels like it.


    Implies that a woman should have sex if she doesn't feel like it. And this would be argued back to male entitlement and, as it's one theory for rape, back to condoning rape.

    Again, I do not believe the argument above. At all. But, I guarantee the above argument could be used to discredit the whole piece.


    I might suggest that she was implying that the woman is the one who decides when sex is had in the relationship and that the man is viewed as a hungry dog who is always ready to hop to it.

    This is wrong, sex should be when both are in the mood.


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    #43
    Ms. Pingui
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ms. Pingui


    Sleepy wrote: »
    A good friend of mine is with a girl like this. Only thing he seems to get out of the relationship is regular sex whilst she gets a taxi-driver, a babysitter, a house cleaner, someone to split the bills with and an all purpose skivvy... whilst pressuring him into not seeing his friends or pursuing his hobbies. She's one of those "any engagement ring would have to cost five figures" types and constantly drops "hints" about that and whining about how she wants more kids...

    He's utterly pussy blinded though so all we can do is hope he finally sees sense before she has an "accident" with contraception.

    If it's his own child it's not babysitting, it's called parenting.


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    #44
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Ms. Pingui wrote: »
    If it's his own child it's not babysitting, it's called parenting.

    I'd add the cleaning and the errand running to that too.


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    #45
    HansHolzel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    I never liked Ally McBeal but I did spot something funny in it one night, while flicking.

    A female lawyer representing the man in a divorce case accused the woman of having entered the marriage with an agenda. When the woman denied this the lawyer told her to be honest; that every woman enters a marriage with at least one basic agenda...

    "To change his dress sense, cut him off from his friends and undermine his whole way of life."


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Why is it ok for a woman to give a man a present of toolbox, spanner set etc. for Christmas but if he gives her a nice new iron and ironing board he is the worst in the world

    Lots of men will count DIY among their hobbies. I know a few guys who are into carpentry, for example.

    Very few women will consider ironing a hobby.


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    #47
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭iptba


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Santa Cruz wrote:
    View Post
    Why is it ok for a woman to give a man a present of toolbox, spanner set etc. for Christmas but if he gives her a nice new iron and ironing board he is the worst in the world
    Not true. Plenty of women would love a kitchen aid mixer. Or a gift cert to Sephora.

    I need an iron if anyone wants to buy me one for Christmas. No promise that I'll use it though.
    You say "anyone". However what I believe is being talked about is as a present from one's romantic partner. I think most men would be wary of giving kitchen utensils as the sole gift(s) for Christmas or a birthday; and the impression out there is that most women wouldn't be happy either (I recall jokes of women stabbing men for giving such gifts).


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    You say "anyone". However what I believe is being talked about is as a present from one's romantic partner. I think most men would be wary of giving kitchen utensils as the sole gift(s) for Christmas or a birthday; and the impression out there is that most women wouldn't be happy either (I recall jokes of women stabbing men for giving such gifts).

    I know women who've gratefully received cookware and sewing machines as gifts from partners, because of their interest in cooking and crafts.

    Being given household essentials isn't much of a gift if you're not interested in it beyond necessity, but if it's about hobbies then I see no problem with toolkits or Le Creuset or whatever.

    My dad likes woodwork, my mother likes cooking. They've happily exchanged gifts related to those hobbies.

    Vacuum cleaners and irons aren't possible hobbyist items in the same way the above examples are, they're just household essentials, and so are fairly thoughtless gifts imo.


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    #49
    HansHolzel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    How about giving a guy - who's into plumbing - a plunger and toilet brush?


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    How about giving a guy - who's into plumbing - a plunger and toilet brush?

    I can't imagine anyone being delighted with a gift of a toilet brush. Unless they have very niche interests indeed. :)


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    #51
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    I never liked Ally McBeal but I did spot something funny in it one night, while flicking.

    A female lawyer representing the man in a divorce case accused the woman of having entered the marriage with an agenda. When the woman denied this the lawyer told her to be honest; that every woman enters a marriage with at least one basic agenda...

    "To change his dress sense, cut him off from his friends and undermine his whole way of life."
    The implication being, presumably, that the female lawyer was the type who'd enter a marriage with an agenda, and applied her outlook to all women rather than speaking for herself?


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    #52
    HansHolzel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭HansHolzel


    The joke is lost.


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    #53
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Ms. Pingui wrote: »
    If it's his own child it's not babysitting, it's called parenting.
    It's not. And I think that should have been fairly clear from my comment about his friends hoping he'll get some sense before she has an "accident".
    clairefontaine wrote: »
    I'd add the cleaning and the errand running to that too.
    Why should any man spend his time cleaning up after a woman who's too lazy to take care of her own home? I'm assuming you'd be (rightly) outraged at the suggestion were the genders reversed? Or would you be okay with a man whining on the couch until their girlfriend brought them a cup of tea?

    The girl in question is a real princess who thinks she deserves to be fawned on because she's "special". Basically the female equivalent of the grown man who expects women to treat him like his mammy did when he was 5.


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    #54
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Sleepy wrote: »
    It's not. And I think that should have been fairly clear from my comment about his friends hoping he'll get some sense before she has an "accident".


    Why should any man spend his time cleaning up after a woman who's too lazy to take care of her own home? I'm assuming you'd be (rightly) outraged at the suggestion were the genders reversed? Or would you be okay with a man whining on the couch until their girlfriend brought them a cup of tea?

    Presumably if they are engaged and share a house and have children, homekeeping is also his responsibility. As is "babysitting" - your word.

    What's next, the "masculine mystique?"

    You've explained he does this all for regular sex. Until you know what goes on in that bedroom it's hardly worth judgement, it might explain alot about what goes on outside of it.


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    #55
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Why should any man spend his time cleaning up after a woman who's too lazy to take care of her own home?
    Don't think anyone suggested the above, which would obviously be unacceptable; just doing his own cleaning up.

    I don't have a problem doing most of the housework tbh - fairly traditional that way. But I won't ever tidy up after someone.


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    #56
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I know of one guy who goes along with everything the girlfriend says, as he will do anything to stay in a relationship, but pretty much all of my other male friends can and do get sex very easily when they want it and wont take any **** from women, why would you put up with crap, when so many will give it up so easy?! :confused:


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    #57
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,348 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I know of one guy who goes along with everything the girlfriend says, as he will do anything to stay in a relationship, but pretty much all of my other male friends can and do get sex very easily when they want it and wont take any **** from women, why would you put up with crap, when so many will give it up so easy?! :confused:

    There is more to a relationship than sex right?


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    #58
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Why is it ok for a woman to give a man a present of toolbox, spanner set etc. for Christmas but if he gives her a nice new iron and ironing board he is the worst in the world
    Depends on if (EDIT: as others have said; replied before finishing reading) the guy likes fixing/building stuff as a hobby/craft - can't really say the same about ironing sheets.


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    #59
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,183 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Presumably if they are engaged and share a house and have children, homekeeping is also his responsibility. As is "babysitting" - your word.

    What's next, the "masculine mystique?"

    You've explained he does this all for regular sex. Until you know what goes on in that bedroom it's hardly worth judgement, it might explain alot about what goes on outside of it.
    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Don't think anyone suggested the above, which would obviously be unacceptable; just doing his own cleaning up.

    I don't have a problem doing most of the housework tbh - fairly traditional that way. But I won't ever tidy up after someone.
    He does all the housework while she's the type that'd go away for a week with dirty dishes left on the table, he minds her child, fetches, carrys, cooks, has to carry her up the stairs when she comes in blind drunk etc. and that I've never once seen her lift a finger to do something considerate for him.

    The "regular sex" comment was in relation to the fact that she bangs on about their sex life regularly so, while she could be exaggerating the frequency of that, I just can't see anything else that he gets out of being in a relationship with her.


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    #60
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Sleepy wrote: »
    He does all the housework while she's the type that'd go away for a week with dirty dishes left on the table, he minds her child, fetches, carrys, cooks, has to carry her up the stairs when she comes in blind drunk etc. and that I've never once seen her lift a finger to do something considerate for him.

    The "regular sex" comment was in relation to the fact that she bangs on about their sex life regularly so, while she could be exaggerating the frequency of that, I just can't see anything else that he gets out of being in a relationship with her.

    That's not a princess, that's a a shrew.

    Do people actually find this attractive? If I wanted a slave I'd buy one.

    Yeah people who go about their sex lives, you kow what they say, sex is like money people wo have it don't talk about it it.

    He's getting something out of it, whatever that may bein anyone's guess.


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    #61
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    He's getting something out of it, whatever that may bein anyone's guess.

    Shur it's all grand then.


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