Ironman Mallorca Sep 2014

Kurt Godel

RacoonQueen wrote: »

There's one for all the irish on 'that' website I think..

Comprehensive list of all IRL with splits on TI site here

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

1370m Elevation

Frankfurt 1000m Elevation
Austria 1630m Elevation

Its harder than Austria. One long, long slog of a climb which Austria doesn't have. Some very fast technical descents which Austria also doesn't have. The flat bits are very prone to wind. Its not always the elevation stat that tells the story.

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

Its harder than Austria. One long, long slog of a climb which Austria doesn't have. Some very fast technical descents which Austria also doesn't have. The flat bits are very prone to wind. Its not always the elevation stat that tells the story.

Okay, cannot infer the rest from profiles, just that it has less climbing is all you can tell!

Whats the road surface like?

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

Okay, cannot infer the rest from profiles, just that it has less climbing is all you can tell!

Whats the road surface like?

When I did it in March, very good apart from one section that was very narrow and like a dirt track. Noone has mentioned it though, so I presume it was repaired.

Ryath

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Ironman sites allow filtering by country after a few days. Up on Mallorca site now, but you'd have to search by cat and country.

http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/events/emea/ironman/mallorca/results.aspx#axzz3EhVxBfOd

Thanks you can get around the category search by deleting it from the address bar.
http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/events/emea/ironman/mallorca/results.aspx?race=mallorca&rd=20140927&loc=IRL&ps=20#axzz3EjRgHrtF

EC1000

tunney wrote: »

Okay, cannot infer the rest from profiles, just that it has less climbing is all you can tell!

Whats the road surface like?

(Have only done the 70.3 route, which makes up half of the full route....) The surface is mostly excellent but there was a stretch of about 4 or 5 km that was very rough with bottles strewn all over.....

I would agree with Oryx, even though the climb that goes on for about 10km, the wind is the defining factor on this course.

Bambaata

If its the climb as the 70.3 you definitely dont get the time back on the descent! Its quite technical a with a lot of hard braking.

Oryx

Bambaata wrote: »

If its the climb as the 70.3 you definitely dont get the time back on the descent! Its quite technical a with a lot of hard braking.

Its the same one.

RacoonQueen

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Comprehensive list of all IRL with splits on TI site here

Hurts my brain...

pgibbo

Did anyone get or accept a Kona slot?

Ryath

First 5 in M30 all took them so Trinewbie is going

tunney

Thats the only way to do Kona, qualify the year before.

BTH

tunney wrote: »

Thats the only way to do Kona, qualify the year before.

That's taking the pussy way out. Still 11 days to this year's race, he could easily make it.

bryangiggsy

Ryath wrote: »

First 5 in M30 all took them so Trinewbie is going

Sucks for Emmett Kelly....go 9.23 and not get a slot!

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

Thats the only way to do Kona, qualify the year before.

Shocked Dave Tunney..shocked surely that playing the system

pgibbo

I see Russ Cox has done his analysis on the race here

P2C

Majorca. My Ironman virginity.

Good points- Great venue/razzmatazz/course/support/layout/ organisation/ non wetsuits swim/ holiday/ flight access and I really enjoyed the suffering

I swam at very decent 56 min swim.


Bad points

Got to witness this from 1k until 120 k. I was on a bad day and was zonked due to tiredness and injury. I actually blew a tub and rode a flat into a headwind for 20k on the way back and ended with a 5:45 bike.

I was passed by probably 500 on the bike and was hoping for a 5:15 or had the wattage to hold same. It was more evident in the top 3/400 athletes and in the first 90-120k. I confirmed this with many participants afterwards and with some spectators who had watched plenty of Ironmans and had not witnessed the magnitude before. With the exception of probably the top twenty or thirty on the road

This is not to take away form the results of any of the Irish contingent as there are plenty of very capable athletes who probably would bike those times on their own and in some cases even quicker. It was basically impossible to avoid.


The drafting peletons shocked the **** out of me. I have never witnessed anything as blatant and obviously premeditated by the amount of participants of all nationalities who made no effort what so ever to ride pace lines. I was shocked by the number of athletes on roadbikes with no aero gear and just stuck to the wheels of club mates or other riders with their numbers turned to the opposite side of the marshals

It was more akin to a sportiff or a bike race than any triathlon. Its was dangerous and all consuming as the bunch's just grew in size as they consumed all before them including many of the lead female pros. I witnessed plenty of female pros sucking wheels for 40-50k.

It was virtually impossible to stay away from the packs and if any stronger bikers came blazing through they just latched onto them and at one stage @ around 90 k coming back into Alcudia there was a bunch of close to 100 spread five deep and 100 meter long on the road.

The marshals were present on motor bikes but didn't seem capable or able to implement penalties as the packs were so large.

They had a highlights video the next day and it was clear the packs were evident.

I am not sure if this is the case at all Ironamans as it was my first I expected to see packs and drafting but I didn't think it could be this congested and blatant. Hopefully not as that's not really a true race as sure for next year I might as well improve my bike racing skills.

vegas elvis

Have to echo the points above re drafting. I did a similar bike time (had hoped to bring it in around 5:25 but blew my legs avoiding peletons).

I've done 4 ironmans - Zurich, regensberg and roth before this one and was genuinely shocked at the premeditatedness of what felt like half the field here.

Seen plenty of drafting at euro ironmans but this was off the scale altogether!

That being said the venue, location and general organisation were super and the location makes it a great one to travel to with the family or a group. Made an absolute balls of my "run" so conflicted as to weather I'd like to give it another shot

smithwicks

Outside of biff non wet suit swim was very enjoyable. My first and it felt great.

Bike is one big accident waiting to happen. Afaik pros and top ag's were very close. And everyone going up and down hills close to each other will end in tears.

Seen two bad falls on bike. One guy took out another some how. TT bikes and deep rims hitting the ground is not a nice sound

Usual stuff, people hogging outside take over space. People taking up the whole road and not keeping in.

Having done Austria, Mallorca bike is far tougher. Lluc is a tough climb. Prob up there with some of the lanzarote climbs but whereas Lanza is a constant body f@@k Mallorca is just a one off mountain.

Not enough aid stations on mountain. I would have gladly drank from a stream if I found one.

Patchy parts of road after the mountain. Like when the council throws down a bit of tar before an election. Not dangerous but concentration needed.

I found the run tougher on the mind than previous IMS. It was grand on the promenade, and in town but once ya hit the roundabout taking the main rd it seemed to go on forever then turnaround and come back.

Volunteers were great, would encourage by name when handing out drinks. All Irish and some English, English speaking would also help out with encouragement.

Overall I can see IM branding this as the kona of Europe with non wet suit swim and bloody palm trees. Good event if you want to incorporate a family holiday, get some sun or first timer experience.

It's not an easy race, don't be fooled by profile couple of drags. Heat is a factor and i don't think the turnarounds help with marathon times. But that and all I have said is just my opinion.

Fazz

Bit of repetition to above reports, but here's my mini summary too.

First Ironman, went in with no real time expectations but I did want a sub 10 regardless.
I knew it wasn't a fast course, and also wasn't sure how nutrition or the distance would go with me.

Swim:
- Loved it, by far the easiest swim in a race ever. Why? Because so many swimmers of similar ability it was the easiest drafting ever. Honestly checked myself a few times thinking wow this is great.

- Non Wetsuit, but I clocked the distance at 3,880m and didn't go wide much at all. This was to about half way up beach so maybe 3.6 or 3.7km true out of water I expect. Times were fast though, for Pro's and everyone. Water was very salty, sea very calm and a nice swim.

- I got a bad kick to the head around 1,500m. Knocked goggle off one eye and after fixing it I was dazed and felt weak.
Pace slowed here and I was just following into the australian exit. Once onto land I removed goggles and hat and felt better, the short run in/out helped and on the final loop was better but lost quite a bit of ground.
Was swimming beside trinewbie as always up to around then and on his feet but lost a lot at the turns and after the smack.


Bike:

First time experiencing the ironman drafting, and was shocking, but at same time not a lot organisers can do as so many of similar ability on the course.
No one drops back the required 10m.
Some don't move out the 1.5m when entering draft zone to overtake.
Pelotons come past and box you in, forcing you to drop back and push to overtake again as power way down.
Course didn't help this - the first 110km contained only rolling hills and very fast sections.

There was an occasion in the first 40km for me when I was pushing good watts, got passed by a group and as I was dropping back I looked over my shoulder to see a massive bunch behind the group and I was close to being boxed in for god knows how long.
Surged to re-pass and again pushed above power but I wanted to ride my race clean for myself. Gaining 5 or 10 minutes from drafting and having fresher run legs is not how I race and not what I wanted from my ironman experience.


Out of the water I was around a lot of others but passing easily and not going too much above target.
Soon the groups formed and I was surging to pass them and blowing past my targets.
Your choices are this:

- Get passed by pelotons, stick to your figures and drop back the 10m once they pass and only stay a few metres ahead of you.

The problem with this is when they pass you, you are dropping back and seeing power figures way below target. And more groups are close behind and once passed force you to drop off even more losing time.
Knowing you are losing time and can go faster forces you to push and surge to get past them and try drop them and get fresh air and out of any potential drafting penalties.

- Surge when needed to get out of pelotons and avoid any drafting risks. Know you are going above power but riding clean and still making good time.


There was some outrageous groups working together and blatantly drafting.
I nearly got swallowed into one of these but managed to back off and surge again. Last thing I wanted was for a group to pass me and me look like I'm drafting and get pinged with a penalty.


My ideal watts for the race was 220-225.
Went through first hour avg 235, np 242 but a lot of surges in there.
Tried to drop back then and flat roads enabled a bit of easing back.
Went through 100km in 223 ap, 233 np so more in line.
Zico came past around the 110km and a big peloton behind him. They were all drafting badly and I dropped back before working again but they were gone and I was sticking to my pace as knew I had overcooked a bit of the start and the climb was coming.

The splits on ironman tracker show I was 3.5mins behind Tim Don's bike to the 110km. Now my watts are above, and I rode clean which suggests he was definitely staying in a pace line and saving himself for the climb when i suspect he put the hammer down.
I passed some female pro's around the 120km mark, and one was on the absolute wheel of another.

Other AG'er's were on pace with the Pro's to the 110km mark, or even faster in some cases. :eek:


Problem was when I got to the long climb, the surges had cost me and I wasn't able to push above target for long enough to get a bit of time like planned.

I also over shot the first sharp left hand hairpin on the descent and rolled into the forest section.
Just too late on brakes and went in too hot, managed to slow enough in straight line and bumped into forest before turning and back on.
More funny than anything! :pac::D

Power dropped in the last hour as a result of my surging but still happy enough.

I did learn after around the 130km mark that it was much more benefit to stay the 10m back as opposed to cleaner at 15-20m.
There seemed a 20w saving or so by doing this, and if racing again I would be focussing on staying the 10m gap more than my numbers as the benefit outweighs this.

Averaged 209w for the full, and normalised 223w so a bit below target but not much and still felt good.

Bike Power File here:

http://tpks.ws/4v29

181km, 1,640m of elevation according to my Edge anyway.
Have 910xt to double check once I locate my USB stick.
The course profile missed a lot of lumpy and hill sections so suspect it was quite close to accurate for the 1,600m.
Slow bike due to the 600m climb to Lluc being a long slow gradual one.



Run:

Started the run feeling grand, easy was 4:10/km for first couple before I managed to slow down.

Pace slowed from there as calves and quads cramped whenever I picked it up. I wanted to keep running so dropped pace to avoid cramps and then tried again a few times but each ended in almost locking up my legs.
I walked aid stations mostly, but ran the rest of the course.
It was hot but I like the heat so didn't mind it.

I missed my salt tablets I had planned to take on the bike, amateur mistake and not sure if these may have helped avoid cramps, or just more of everything needed (as well as strength endurance).

Everything was hurting from the second lap, back, core, legs you name it. But kept going and the support was fantastic.

Finished in 9:45 and happy with that for my first ironman.

Learnt a hell of a lot, and really enjoyed this race more so than any other.
Hard to say why, whether it's that I'm more comfortable at these paces, whether it's the distance, big event etc but it was a very enjoyable race.

I'd highly recommend this race to others. We got very lucky with weather as it was raining the day after and around race week.
Course and roads were 95% brilliant.

Main Lessons for me:
- look at using calf guards/compression
- ensure salts are stocked up on bike
- try stick to 10m gaps once away from main groups
- know the start will likely contain lots of surging to avoid drafts unless close enough to front of field.
- Enjoy it.

Lots of individual training mistakes learnt along the way and what it likely takes to get up to Kona ability if that's a chosen goal, or into much faster ironman times.

I can imagine how bad Kona is, and I think it's only 7m draft zone there and lots more of similar ability.
Drafting is in the sport, some will ride honest, some will be fast enough they have to ride honest, others will take advantages cleanly or not so cleanly when they can.

Ironman Mallorca is a fantastic race, location, roads and facilities.
Support and course is great.

I loved it.

trinewbie

I had a decent swim, out of the water in just over 57mins and got out onto clear road. After around 20k looking back the road it was clear that large groups of riders were forming.Large peletons were to be unavoidable for the whole day. As fazz says the best way to avoid the draft zone was to surge; this is not sustainable- its drives up NP and variability and destroys your run.For anybody here to think they can ride within 3-4 minutes (or faster) of the winner without some element of benefit from legal or illegal drafting is only kidding themselves.I was swallowed twice, primarily before coming back into alcudia at 90ish k.Already, my watts until that point were far too high, NP was 266 and average almost 250.I was attempting to stay clear of two large packs seen at the turnaround in Arta. When I was swallowed I would surge to 310 + watts , to get clear, then some pr!ck would come and pull in and drop right of the power, I would drop back 10 metres ( still a huge 20watt benefit in headwind sections at this distance and clear benefit from legal riding) then more and more from the pack would pass, as I dropped back the required distance, my watts would drop and drop until I found myself 10 metres at the back riding below race watts.At this point another sustained 310+ watt surge would see me go off the front to try and escape the blatent cheating. This process continued and my legs became more and more fatigued from the surging as opppsed to a steady output. My average watts were below what I was capable of but NP was far too high.At one point, an Irish AG male on A ROAD BIKE who was sat in tried to engage in conversation as he toddled past onboard his train ( me in full aero setup) , my response was not gentleman like. Once the route hit the climb the cheaters were exposed and blew their lights all over the road. I saw no more packs from the start of the climb at 115 as all the wheel suckers were gone..I rode the climb hard at 90% + ftp in an effort to stay clear and it worked, but by the time i got back to T2 I was suffering from all the surging and really paid for it on the run.Did I benefit from the legal draft effect dropping back the required distances? Yes, definitely.Did other posters on this thread? Without a doubt...Compare most Irish AG bike splits to other races this year, those riding fairly on saturday will have a similar % bike split variance in other races to each other, some have a much much better comparable split.Make up your own mind on who these are..I know I rode clean as did others on here. Would my overall race have been faster if the packs were not present - probably so; the effort of a sustained power output on the bike should have yielded a significantly faster run split.

Ultimately I loved this race.I did not cheat. I suffered like I have never suffered before. I stood 300 metres from the finishing chute with both legs locked in cramp unable to move for minutes.I thought I was watching my kona dream go up in smoke. I got across the line and kept the dream alive. Im sure if i got pipped for a slot by a wheel sucker that my outlook on the race wouldnt be so positive.

emmk

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Sucks for Emmett Kelly....go 9.23 and not get a slot!

Two people needed to be passed or I needed to be 1min 13sec quicker to have a Slot. But 6th needed to be 40sec quicker. Sucks more. With a 2015 Kona Slot on the cards and a year to fund it there were almost no roll downs as expected. Well Done trinewbie. Epic race great sportsman and Zazz for a great first ironman keeping boards talking

EC1000

emmk wrote: »

I needed to be 1min 13sec quicker to have a Slot.

So close. Epic run split btw.

zico10

I was in no rush to post back here on my reactions to this race. I trained incredibly hard for it and started it expecting to qualify for Kona. I should have, but didn't qualify, so as far as I'm concerned it was an anticlimax.

But just in case there's anyone who might have thought I was drafting I feel I should say something. After 168km on the bike I was 2 minutes ahead of the guy who finally placed 4th in my age group and I got there by passing every single f***ing person I saw on the road. Up until the climb literally nobody passed me and stayed away. My splits for the first 110km were admittedly very quick, but I did it by riding cleanly. I never once stayed behind another cyclist or group of cyclists and I passed plenty. You've 20 seconds to overtake someone and you are entitled to be in someone's draft zone for every millisecond of those 20. Did I benefit from this? Yes, of course. Could any marshal who followed me for the full 180km of the race done me for drafting? NO!!!

tunney

zico10 wrote: »

I was in no rush to post back here on my reactions to this race. I trained incredibly hard for it and started it expecting to qualify for Kona. I should have, but didn't qualify, so as far as I'm concerned it was an anticlimax.

But just in case there's anyone who might have thought I was drafting I feel I should say something. After 168km on the bike I was 2 minutes ahead of the guy who finally placed 4th in my age group and I got there by passing every single f***ing person I saw on the road. Up until the climb literally nobody passed me and stayed away. My splits for the first 110km were admittedly very quick, but I did it by riding cleanly. I never once stayed behind another cyclist or group of cyclists and I passed plenty. You've 20 seconds to overtake someone and you are entitled to be in someone's draft zone for every millisecond of those 20. Did I benefit from this? Yes, of course. Could any marshal who followed me for the full 180km of the race done me for drafting? NO!!!

Did you get done for drafting?

zico10

tunney wrote: »

Did you get done for drafting?

No.

tunney

zico10 wrote: »

No.

Okay. so why would anyone say you were drafting?

zico10

tunney wrote: »

Okay. so why would anyone say you were drafting?

Just in case anyone who read this like me doesn't know who trinewbie is talking about.

trinewbie wrote: »

Did other posters on this thread? Without a doubt...Compare most Irish AG bike splits to other races this year, those riding fairly on saturday will have a similar % bike split variance in other races to each other, some have a much much better comparable split.Make up your own mind on who these are..I know I rode clean as did others on here.

zico10

Incidentally Fazz do you have a link to the rule that states you need to move out 1.5m to overtake?

tunney

zico10 wrote: »

Incidentally Fazz do you have a link to the rule that states you need to move out 1.5m to overtake?

No link but aware of this too.