Air China - Beijing to Dublin

Tenger

Mister R wrote: »

Interesting that the longest 757-300 flight will be the Aer Lingus Dublin-Toronto according to that wikipedia page.

But EI are using B757-200's.

Mister R

Oh Thats wikipedia for you.

Rabbitt

I take it this was all just malicious gossip ?

jamo2oo9

Rabbitt wrote: »

I take it this was all just malicious gossip ?

I presume so yeah as there's been no word of anything official and no confirmation of it

Khuitlio

Seems like we might get some news of this soon.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/air-links-top-varadkars-agenda-in-china-visit-30213929.html

Minister Leo Varadkar is leading negotiations in China aimed at developing new aviation links with Ireland.

mooseknunkle

If this does get the go ahead anybody have an idea of timeline, how likely are we to see flights in 2014 or would it be early 2015 maybe ?

Tenger

mooseknunkle wrote: »

If this does get the go ahead anybody have an idea of timeline, how likely are we to see flights in 2014 or would it be early 2015 maybe ?

Even if a deal was struck today I would guess next Summer would be the earliest possible start-up.

Airlines are already working on their winter schedule, which is usually confirmed publicly approx June/July.


I believe EI announced their SFO launch approx 15 months in advance.

metrosity

I'm also interested in any news on this. It's inevitable that route will open up imo. Here's why:

- There is already a partnership agreement in place between Beijing Capital International airport and Dublin airport.
- Beijing Capital Airport is the the primary hub of Air China which has a domestic network in China also. It's also the
2nd. main hub for China Southern Airlines which is a huge domestic carrier in China. Put simply, this would open up
cheaper networks all over Asia. It's extremely lucrative. I think a direct route to Guangzhou (the main hub of China
Southern) is also lucrative.
- Chinese, Malaysians, Filipinos etc. living in Ireland would save money returning home on holidays as the domestic
Chinese carriers are even cheaper than Ryanair in some cases (shudder the thought).
- There aren't necessarily direct links from Heathrow, Paris or Amsterdam etc. to small cities in China, so a Chinese
passenger would be able to keep their flight to 2 hops in many cases instead of 3 if there's a direct flight from
Dublin. Beijing links to pretty much every city in China. Guangzhou is the big hub for the South (Malaysia, Philippines,
Indonesia). China Southern is linked up to all of those, and Air Asia is too afaik.
- As another poster mentioned, Air China has ordered Boeing 787's which have the range. Aer Lingus have existing
A330-300's which should have the range. They already fly to San Francisco with them which is very long haul.
Also, Aer Lingus have A350-900 XWB's ordered which should arrive in 2016/2017 (which definitely have the range).
I can't imagine they wouldn't be using them for something like this.

Air China announced a load of new international routes yesterday Dublin wasn't one of them. However interestingly they are doing Beijing-montreal-Havana on a 777-300.

Tenger

metrosity wrote: »

I'm also interested in any news on this. It's inevitable that route will open up imo. Here's why:
.............................
.............................
- As another poster mentioned, Air China has ordered Boeing 787's which have the range. Aer Lingus have existing
A330-300's which should have the range. They already fly to San Francisco with them which is very long haul.
Also, Aer Lingus have A350-900 XWB's ordered which should arrive in 2016/2017 (which definitely have the range)............

cought "2018" cough

ohigg84

It will be interesting to see Air China starting flights to DUB. I think the load factors will be strong, perhaps we will see the B747-8I flying in here, and definitely the B777-300ER!

Zonda999

ohigg84 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see Air China starting flights to DUB. I think the load factors will be strong, perhaps we will see the B747-8I flying in here, and definitely the B777-300ER!

I'm not so sure, Air China look to be fairly conservative in terms of starting routes on large planes. They operate many routes to Europe on A332's (Even LHR for example) which I would expect them to start DUB with, when they do eventually start.

Bo91

To be honest I can't see this route happening for a while yet they've just announced their new long haul routes and Dublin isn't one of them , would be great to see it though .

ohigg84

Zonda999 wrote: »

I'm not so sure, Air China look to be fairly conservative in terms of starting routes on large planes. They operate many routes to Europe on A332's (Even LHR for example) which I would expect them to start DUB with, when they do eventually start.

Actually I'd agree there with you, yes I've noticed Air China deploying the A330-200 on a lot of European routes, but if Air China were to start cargo flights, then I'd be surprised if I didn't see a B747-400F on the route.

FWVT

There is still the issue of the handful of days per year when density altitude will prevent a fully loaded flight from taking off. Not a major problem, I know, but a slight hassle on the day.

metrosity

There could be politics at play here too. Many existing East Asian residents in Ireland more than likely fly Ryanair to London/Frankfurt/Amsterdam/Paris and then go on to fly long haul from there. Ryanair owns 25% of Aer Lingus. As long as they can't buyout Aer Lingus, why would they agree to lose customers by endorsing a long haul route to Beijing for example? They would certainly lose money on this.

BonkeyDonker

metrosity wrote: »

There could be politics at play here too. Many existing East Asian residents in Ireland more than likely fly Ryanair to London/Frankfurt/Amsterdam/Paris and then go on to fly long haul from there. Ryanair owns 25% of Aer Lingus. As long as they can't buyout Aer Lingus, why would they agree to lose customers by endorsing a long haul route to Beijing for example? They would certainly lose money on this.

Of the four airports you mentioned above Ryanair do not currently fly to any of them - I am assuming the major hub airports (LHR, AMS, FRA and AMS) - so I do not see how the traffic going direct would have a major, or any effect on Ryanair. In fact those airports are served by Aer Lingus - so this could effect them more.

Also how could Ryanair stop them in reality? They are only a shareholder - OK a large one - but they have no real say in the day to day running of the airline.

donvito99

metrosity wrote: »

There could be politics at play here too. Many existing East Asian residents in Ireland more than likely fly Ryanair to London/Frankfurt/Amsterdam/Paris and then go on to fly long haul from there. Ryanair owns 25% of Aer Lingus. As long as they can't buyout Aer Lingus, why would they agree to lose customers by endorsing a long haul route to Beijing for example? They would certainly lose money on this.

Why anyone would fly Ryanair, then change airports, to fly on one of BA, LH, KL or AF from the hubs you list above, to get to the far east, when they could go cheaper from Dublin by flying BA/EI to LHR, LH to FRA or MUC, WX to CDG or EI again to AMS... it just doesn't happen, at least in my experience.

The rule of thumb is that passengers who fly through hubs get better deals than those who's journeys originate at hubs, so to fly Ryanair would be a harrowing enough journey and an expensive one.

L1011

metrosity wrote: »

There could be politics at play here too. Many existing East Asian residents in Ireland more than likely fly Ryanair to London/Frankfurt/Amsterdam/Paris and then go on to fly long haul from there. Ryanair owns 25% of Aer Lingus. As long as they can't buyout Aer Lingus, why would they agree to lose customers by endorsing a long haul route to Beijing for example? They would certainly lose money on this.

This isn't the case at all. Logistics and costs mean people simply don't fly like that and Ryanair hold no control over Aer Lingus anyway.

LXFlyer

metrosity wrote: »

There could be politics at play here too. Many existing East Asian residents in Ireland more than likely fly Ryanair to London/Frankfurt/Amsterdam/Paris and then go on to fly long haul from there. Ryanair owns 25% of Aer Lingus. As long as they can't buyout Aer Lingus, why would they agree to lose customers by endorsing a long haul route to Beijing for example? They would certainly lose money on this.

For many long haul destinations it is generally cheaper to buy a ticket from Dublin via one of those hub airports than it is to start from the hub airport itself, so I have no idea where you are coming up with this daft theory.


Let alone the fact that with the exception of Gatwick, Ryanair does not fly to an airport in any of those four cities that has onward connections to Asia whatsoever.

lucernarian

Not connecting flights, but one feasible approach is to fly Norwegian from BKK to LGW and then Ryanair by using budget airlines. Its also a cheap airport to fly to in the region. Its a limited example though re luggage and so on.

Flying via hubs is often cheaper than starting a journey in one, I know.

Rawr

lucernarian wrote: »

Not connecting flights, but one feasible approach is to fly Norwegian from BKK to LGW and then Ryanair by using budget airlines. Its also a cheap airport to fly to in the region. Its a limited example though re luggage and so on.

Flying via hubs is often cheaper than starting a journey in one, I know.

It is an option. Also via OSL or CPG using Norwegian short-haul to DUB which isn't that bad price-wise. I often use them between OSL and DUB, and they are quite nice.

However Norwegian still seem to be trying to get their 'Long Haul' legs. They are infamous over here in Norway for massive delays generated by technical issues with their B787s, that seem to be made worse by them spreading the available fleet out very thin. Alternative travel arrangements don't seem to be offered either (they're not in an alliance or code-share) making their low-cost long haul a bit of a gamble at the moment.

They are also wet-leasing some A340s with Euro-Atlantic, and reviews I've read of those flights were not very glowing.

So they are a budget option to get to Asia (be it BKK), but potentially not the best ride just yet. A direct DUB to PEK flight would be much nicer if the price wasn't too bad.

lucernarian

Rawr wrote: »

It is an option. Also via OSL or CPG using Norwegian short-haul to DUB which isn't that bad price-wise. I often use them between OSL and DUB, and they are quite nice.

However Norwegian still seem to be trying to get their 'Long Haul' legs. They are infamous over here in Norway for massive delays generated by technical issues with their B787s, that seem to be made worse by them spreading the available fleet out very thin. Alternative travel arrangements don't seem to be offered either (they're not in an alliance or code-share) making their low-cost long haul a bit of a gamble at the moment.

They are also wet-leasing some A340s with Euro-Atlantic, and reviews I've read of those flights were not very glowing.

So they are a budget option to get to Asia (be it BKK), but potentially not the best ride just yet. A direct DUB to PEK flight would be much nicer if the price wasn't too bad.

Sounds exactly along the lines of what I've read and what I was thinking. Though booking combined flights with them (e.g. BKK to Oslo and then Oslo to Dublin) seemed much more expensive than going to LGW and then Ryanair, but I only looked at a few dates.

L1011

Their on-time performance is so poor that self-transferring at LGW is fraught with danger...

Rawr

L1011 wrote: »

Their on-time performance is so poor that self-transferring at LGW is fraught with danger...

Assuming you get onto the plane in a timely manner at all. Several of the horror stories I've read mention passengers being stranded at State-side airports for 20+ hours with no alternate flight or any contingency arranged.

Late one evening a couple of months ago I was transferring with SAS via CPH. Since I was bound for DUB, I went to the Non-Schengan gates where I spotted a Norwegian long-haul to Florida on the board. It was due to leave at about 10:00 that morning. But it had been delayed, and when I arrived into the area at about 20:00 it's passengers were still there including some exhausted looking young families.

A new departure time for them was eventually posted before I made my relatively merry way to DUB, which for them was set to 01:30 the following morning. I can only imagine the pure hell of that day for them.

Norwegian's Short-Haul operation is actually not bad at all, so I'm living in some hope that they get their Long Haul act together. But for now, I really don't recommend.