Hypnobirthing - anyone tried it?

CurranBun

Hi everyone,
1st Pregnancy, I am currently 10 weeks - have my 1st appt next week in Holles St.
Anyone ever tried Hypnobirthing, have heard some people say its brilliant, just wondering if it is something worth spending some money on?

I am very nervous about the birth, and just want to be as prepared as I can be. I see there is a course in Dublin for €375 with birthwithease so would love feedback from real people before I spend any money!

missis aggie

Hi,
I did the course and I can't recommended highly enough!! You not only learn how to relax and manage pain but also how to navigate maternity services to have a labour and birth you wish. I had a home birth and I can't say it was pain free but I could manage no problem. You learn how to trust your body and train your mind to be calm.
Congratulation on your pragnancy and good luck

CurranBun

Thanks Aggie,
Would you recommend any course in particular? wondering if I should try a book 1st?

pwurple

I'd say it looks relaxing and can give people a feeling of control, but manage your expectations with it.

My friend did the course, and was all prepared, but during the labour the baby got into difficulty, cord prolapse. She ended up with an emergency c-section, baby was fine thank goodness, and she recovered physically... but she was bitterly disappointed that the birth didn't go to plan. She had such a determined mindset that this was the way to go. So when something went wrong she felt like a failure, like she did something wrong (she didn't!). She got post natal depression afterwards, may not be related, but she certainly was in a dark place anyway when it didn't go to plan.

missis aggie

I did the weekand course and with it you will get set of CDs. You can also buy only CDs and do a home study.
I have to say I did the course when I had my second baby. The main reason I did it is because my first expariance in a hospital wasn't great and I wish I was prepared much better. My birth wasn't traumatic but it wasn't great in a sense of interventions and overall experience. If I knew what I know now it would be completely different. Even if something went wrong I would know that I was prepered I did everything I could. You never know with the labour.
I found I was very realaxed and I was ready to accept changes to my birth plan.

sari

Yes it's great really really helped me. My birth did not go as planned at the end, the end was very traumatic for me and baby. Hypnobirthing actually made me better able to deal with this, I knew I had done everything I could do and sometimes things just happen out of our control. It also helped to use the techniques I learned after the birth to calm me and help me deal with my emotions and deal with the pain I was in

January

pwurple wrote: »

I'd say it looks relaxing and can give people a feeling of control, but manage your expectations with it.

My friend did the course, and was all prepared, but during the labour the baby got into difficulty, cord prolapse. She ended up with an emergency c-section, baby was fine thank goodness, and she recovered physically... but she was bitterly disappointed that the birth didn't go to plan. She had such a determined mindset that this was the way to go. So when something went wrong she felt like a failure, like she did something wrong (she didn't!). She got post natal depression afterwards, may not be related, but she certainly was in a dark place anyway when it didn't go to plan.

I didn't hypno birth but I did have a very definite birth plan in place for my first. It ended in an emergency c section and it took me almost a year to get over it. Loose birth plans are the best way to go.

nikpmup

This is of huge interest to me - my biggest fear for labour was losing control of myself and getting panicked. My contractions came on thick & strong after I was put on oxytocin and I could feel that panic starting - it didn't have time to develop as I had to have an emergency c section under GA, so I was knocked out before I knew what was happening. Like January, I've found it difficult to come to terms with. I had looked into hypnobirthing while I was pregnant but didn't follow it up. I would be very interested in doing it for the next time, I didn't know what to expect first time but now that I know what labour feels like, I definitely feel extra coping strategies would be helpful! Also I think the thought would be in the back of my mind that I would end up needing another c-section and that would make me more stressed and anxious. At best hypnobirthing might help me cope with labour, at worst I'll waste a few quid.

Soooky

Hi everyone! I did the gentlebirth course - not due to give birth for a few weeks but feel pretty prepared! The information received was great, really useful and positive compared to the information I received during the few HSE antenatal classes I attended :eek:

I'm not under any illusions that birth won't be painful and know that, while I have my birth plan written out, there are no guarantees -I do however feel much more in control and calm....

SanFran07

nikpmup wrote: »

At best hypnobirthing might help me cope with labour, at worst I'll waste a few quid.

If a Midwife is teaching the class it might not cost you anything if you have private health insurance.

The course I teach is about controlling the 'controllable' - as sometimes babies have other ideas and a flexible attitude is paramount. The couples I teach don't have fixed birth preferences. They have a clear understanding of how Irish maternity services work so they can make the system work for them and feel more confident in being able to handle whatever comes their way on the day - no matter how their baby arrives.

Hello Lady!

A guy I know, whose wife had just had her second child totally drug free due to hypnobirthing thought it would be helpful of him to offer me the cds. God bless him he was so into it and so excited to point out how his wife had no pain relief, not even gas and air and had a totally natural experience and I should DEFINITELY do it. I just laughed and pointed out that his lovely wife had only one baby to push out. When she's managed two with nothing but hypno techniques come back to me!

vibe666

My wife and I did the gentlebirth weekend course a couple of months ago in preparation for our second child (due in the next few weeks) and I can't recommend it enough.

Going in, I was afraid it would be a lot of tree hugging hippy nonsense, but too my relief, everything in the course is based on medical research and international best practices and taught by a trained midwife. Even as a (mere!) husband, the whole thing was very interesting and informative and after a rather horrible experience in holles st. the first time round, (which at the time we thought we were well prepared for) after the gentlebirth course we are now fully armed to have a much better experience this time round (in the rotunda private this time).

Even though this is our 2nd time around, we have learnt so much from the course that we were still unaware of even after having our first child and confident that we had the full course the first round things would have been very different us.

It's killing us financially, but after last time it took my wife close to 6 months before she was even back to semi-normal and a year before she was completely right, so for that alone it's worth it.

Obviously there are no guarantees with anything, but I would be very confident that whatever birth experience a person is going to have, it will be vastly improved after the gentlebirth course, I really can't recommend it enough, for dads as well as mums.

Oh, almost forgot to say that that yes, as mentioned above, it was covered by our health insurance as it was run by an actual midwife.

SanFran07

We've had several drug free twin births (when first twin is head down). If you'd like to chat to some of those mums let me know.

dharma200

I used the hypnosis thing CDs. I had two Home births in the space of 13 months, with no pain relief and found the techniques I practised very useful.
Yhere will be varying responses, ofcourse no birth plan can be guaranteed, there will always be people who think its some kind of competition, and always people who set unrealistic rigid goals when it comes to birthing, breatsfeeding, raising children etc.
Hypno birthing is a good way to learn how to relax, wether having a c section or giving birth in a teepee lol... There is nothing to be lost by learning the techniques and the breathing a relaxation are not only good for the birth, but good throughout life.
I have noticed a lot of the to,e when I have talked about my home births some people I have talked to get very defensive, as though I think I am more successful or better because I used these techniques and had uncomplicated births, I can never understand this, or the competitive nature birthing seems to bring out in people. Every birth is individual and one woman's experience cannot equate with another, the fact I've had two baby's at home does not mean I a, better or more able than someone who has had one, or so done who has had multiples etc. the best thing to d is be as prepared as possible, and learning relaxation techniques to deal with any situation that could be stressful, painful or hard to control is only a positive. Maybe if you don't want to spend all that money at first order the CDs and commit to doi g them every evening. You will find they help with the pregnancy, sleep etc. and if you feel a benefit then do the course.
Congrats x

Hello Lady!

SanFran07 wrote: »

We've had several drug free twin births (when first twin is head down). If you'd like to chat to some of those mums let me know.

I have one very stubborn baby who has been breech all along and a second wriggler who only seems to like being transverse or breech!

I totally agree with the previous poster, it's not a competition just different experiences and as women we should be open to sharing these experiences and support each other in our choices. We are very privileged to live in a time and place where we have these choices and rather than criticise each other we should be celebrating this freedom.

My issue with my 'helpful' advice from the new dad was that it came with a very large side order of smug! That was what irked me really, not the offer of advice but the sanctimonious manner it was given.

vibe666

Hello Lady! wrote: »

My issue with my 'helpful' advice from the new dad was that it came with a very large side order of smug! That was what irked me really, not the offer of advice but the sanctimonious manner it was given.

i'm sure he's just proud of his OH and wants to be helpful, but try as we might, we can never truly understand what a woman goes through during childbirth and i have no doubt that men just aren't 'built' to withstand it physically or emotionally.

i do know where he's coming from though with wanting to share it with you, we both took so much from the gentlebirthing course that i want to shout it from the rooftops and let everyone know about it as all of the 12 or 13 other couple at the course with us seemed to have a similar positive experience.

my wife and i were discussing it afterwards on the way home and we both felt that if the course was part of the 'curriculum' and taught as part of the regular antenatal classes for mums to be in ireland, that there would be a very significant increase in natural births and much less medical intervention.

the real proof of the pudding is in the tasting though, so i will be back at some stage in the next couple of weeks once our 2nd little one has made an appearance (hopefully before xmas!), but i really do have no doubts since doing the course that we will have a much better birth experience this time around.

Hello Lady!

vibe666 wrote: »

i'm sure he's just proud of his OH and wants to be helpful...
i do know where he's coming from though with wanting to share it with you, we both took so much from the gentlebirthing course that i want to shout it from the rooftops and let everyone know about it as all of the 12 or 13 other couple at the course with us seemed to have a similar positive experience.

Hmmm possibly but I still didn't appreciate it. There is a way to offer information without sounding like an evangelical and smug superparent. If my husband offered help to a pregnant woman in the same manner I'd tell him to wind his neck in!

Good luck to your wife this time round though. I hope she gets the birth experience she wants this time

pwurple

Hello Lady! wrote: »

Hmmm possibly but I still didn't appreciate it. There is a way to offer information without sounding like an evangelical and smug superparent. If my husband offered help to a pregnant woman in the same manner I'd tell him to wind his neck in!

Good luck to your wife this time round though. I hope she gets the birth experience she wants this time

Not everyone wants the drug-free method of birth either. I was talking to a lady last week on her third birth, scheduled for a section (two previous sections, twins and breech) who went into labour while waiting on the ward for it. No time for epidural or anything else, baby was out in 1 hour from first pain. She called it the most horrific experience of her life, where I know other women who would have been delighted with a quick birth, and just fine with no epi.

I do have a buddy who cracks me up, she is very much a fan of the intervention-free, not even gas&air, and vocally pushy about it, but not 5 years ago she would snort any substance known that was put in front of her.

I think we are all very lucky to live in a time and place where both are available.

Hello Lady!

pwurple wrote: »

I think we are all very lucky to live in a time and place where both are available.

This ^^^ +1000!!!

SanFran07

pwurple wrote: »

Not everyone wants the drug-free method of birth either. I was talking to a lady last week on her third birth, scheduled for a section (two previous sections, twins and breech) who went into labour while waiting on the ward for it. No time for epidural or anything else, baby was out in 1 hour from first pain. She called it the most horrific experience of her life, where I know other women who would have been delighted with a quick birth, and just fine with no epi

That's a very valid point. Birth is unpredictable which is why having some tools/tips to keep you and your partner calm on the day can be reassuring. Nobody knows what will happen so doing some preparation can give you a sense of control. There's lots around birth that we have no control over as sometimes babies have other ideas but there's plenty of things we can control. It's not about medicated or non-medicated births - it's about having the best birth possible - as defined by the parents themselves - nobody else.

The OP said she wants to feel as prepared as possible and there are lots of ways to do this, unfortunately Irish maternity services tend to sideline Getting Dads up to speed on how to provide meaningful support to their partner during labour is becoming more and more important to couples who want to stack the odds in their favour of having a good experience as well as having a healthy baby. It's possible to have both.

dharma200

I also realised, after having a hospital birth with my first and then two home births, and talking to other woman, that in some instances panic sets in, or a feeling of not being able to cope, or just plain fear. I read a good book called childbirth without fear,incidentally by a guy..... Called Grant dickly-Reid or something like that. I felt it helped me understand that while fear and anxiety is normal, it can be heightened in a hospital setting which can feel u familiar and out of your own control. fear and panic would be one of the main contributors to the many interventions which are available in hospitals now, ofcourse they are there for a reason, but in many instances can be avoided by taking a front seat in the preparation for labour by us women. In my own home births I very briefly got to the stage where I was like, I can't so this I'm not able..... However the techniques I had learned, the breathing especially, and the focusing of the mind, helped me no end. I feel if I had done such preparation with my first birth it might not have been so arduous and full of interventions, which were not medically neccesary but were in place because I felt I couldn't cope. Fear and panic is one of the enemies of medically uncomplicated birthing I feel. Hypnobirthing defo helps control the anxiety and fear, which in my case allowed me to get last the 'I can't do this' point, to the ' yes I bloody well can' point.. I would definately recommend that book as it started me thinking about how I could manage my own fear and anxiety, which in turn brings the perceive pain levels down, can help the dilation process and the pushing process and helped me sleep much better in the weeks before each labour.
Hths

vitani

I hypnobirthed but not really intentionally. In my case, I'm not averse to needles & injections but something about the thought of an epidural really frightened me. I couldn't have pethidine so I was determined to try and manage by myself for as long as possible. So I spent the weeks before labour practising the breathing techniques I'd learned in the antenatal classes, especially whenever I had Braxton Hicks, and by the time I went into labour, the breathing felt like second nature to me. I spent the last few hours of my labour lying down with my eyes closed, just breathing through the pain and thankfully, only got the 'I can't do this!' part when I was fully dilated and ready to deliver.

Which is a very long and roundabout way of saying that hypnobirthing as a technique is great but if money is tight, then I think it's absolutely possible to have a similar birth experience without spending nearly €400 on a course.

I also found that reading as many birth stories as I could find, and watching 'One Born Every Minute' took a lot of the fear of labour away. And having said that, I had a very straightforward labour and a quick delivery which I know isn't the case for everybody, so my experience was probably down to chance as much as anything else.

the46gang

my wife and I also did the gentlebirth workshop 4 years ago to prepare for the birth of our first child. It was fantastic.
I was a typical bloke skeptical about the whole thing. But my wife insisted we go as her cousin managed to have a home birth on her first baby and raved about what a wonderful experience it was with no drugs and no doctors. This was news to my wife and me as we thought it drugs and doctors were necessary !

But my wife had to have a hospital birth on our first baby as there was no home birth midwifes free.
And boy was I glad I went to that workshop. The workshop is really for us, the men. It got me focused on that we really were going to have a baby. I was in a dreamland really about the whole thing.

You see while it was great for my wife to do all the hypnosis and all the positive mental preparation before hand (very like sports psychology that athletes do), once she was in the throws of labour in the hospital it was up to me to make sure what we wanted was adhered to. And that no unnecessary medical interventions took place. And none did. They could have.

For example we went into the hospital too early as we thought my wife's waters had broken. My wife was only 2 centimeters and the hospital insisted she stay in. I knew if she did then gentle pressure would be put on her over the next few hours causing her stress and which can lead to drugs being taken to speed up labour and which would more that likely lead to more medical interventions.

So I insisted we go home. They said that wasn't possibly. I told them we would be leaving in the next 15 minutes regardless. The midwife was surprised and even had to get a doctor down. Anyway we swent home. 2 hours later in the comfort of our home, then my wife's contractions were coming much closer together and she was getting more uncomfortable so then we knew it was really time to go to the hospital and the baby was born 2 hours later with no drugs or interventions and no distractions.

I would not have had the confidence to be so assertive with the hospital had I not had done the workshop.

My wife put alot of preparation into the sports psychology part of it listening to Cds etc so to be as relaxed as possible during labour and the birth which she was. But the workshop and the homework I had to do after
(i.e. like what to say to hospital staff ie being firm but always polite to staff regarding our wishes) made sure I was prepared to make sure my wife was left alone to give birth in peace in her own time. Which she did, twice, as our second baby was born using the same techniques.

I couldn't recommend the gentlebirth programme and especially the workshop enough.

Pachamammy

CurranBun wrote: »

I am very nervous about the birth, and just want to be as prepared as I can be.

Hi CurranBun, I teach GentleBirth and the workshop prepares you in a number of ways. I started teaching GB because I have used it on both my babies myself, and had great experiences.

It's been mentioned by other posters that you shouldn't stick rigidly to a birth plan. I completely agree. Birth is unpredictable. However, there are almost always choices to be made and GentleBirth helps you to be ready to make those choices.

The fact is our maternity units are overcrowded and you won't have the level of support a lot of mums need to achieve a non epidural birth. Pain relief or reduction strategies in hospital are mostly pharmacological. It's crazy, but only one of the main maternity hospitals in Dublin even has a pool to labour in!

Another poster mentioned that isn't it great both the natural and medically managed births are available. I couldn't disagree more with this statement - the supports necessary to achieve a normal birth are not available. Unless you have a few things in your toolkit and understand how to avoid hospital policies that are often about bed management rather than the best choices for mother and baby,then it is difficult to have a natural birth.

In the GB workshop, we cover hypnosis, active birth techniques, pain reduction measures such as acupressure and how to navigate the system to negotiate the best birth for you.

Neither of my births were perfect - I had an incredible birth on the first one up to the point where my baby was born but then ended up with a spinal in theatre to remove the placenta. The amazing thing was - there was no fear. While GB can't guarantee the exact birth you want, what it does is remove the fear. On the second one, I had planned a home birth but went post 42 weeks and had to have my baby in hospital. I was eventually induced, which would have been my worst nightmare, and ended up having a great experience but I did use every tool in the box, including counterpressure techniques, acupressure, visualisation, and a bit of gas and air to get me through a very intense labour.

What GentleBirth did for me was make the births the best they could be - I can honestly say I loved most of my labour on the first one and laboured at home for a long time. It's a treasured memory.

I don't think you can prepare too much. Think of how much people spend on their weddings. You see Bugaboos everywhere and they are over 1k. I don't think 375e is too much to spend on a day that you are going to remember in crystal clear detail for the rest of your life. You relive your birth experience over and over and over again. Part of the reason I got into this business is that it makes me so sad that many women are reliving bad experiences.

Best of luck, whatever you decide on!

January

Pachamammy wrote: »

Hi CurranBun, I teach GentleBirth and the workshop prepares you in a number of ways. I started teaching GB because I have used it on both my babies myself, and had great experiences.

It's been mentioned by other posters that you shouldn't stick rigidly to a birth plan. I completely agree. Birth is unpredictable. However, there are almost always choices to be made and GentleBirth helps you to be ready to make those choices.

The fact is our maternity units are overcrowded and you won't have the level of support a lot of mums need to achieve a non epidural birth. Pain relief or reduction strategies in hospital are mostly pharmacological. It's crazy, but only one of the main maternity hospitals in Dublin even has a pool to labour in!

Another poster mentioned that isn't it great both the natural and medically managed births are available. I couldn't disagree more with this statement - the supports necessary to achieve a normal birth are not available. Unless you have a few things in your toolkit and understand how to avoid hospital policies that are often about bed management rather than the best choices for mother and baby,then it is difficult to have a natural birth.

In the GB workshop, we cover hypnosis, active birth techniques, pain reduction measures such as acupressure and how to navigate the system to negotiate the best birth for you.

Neither of my births were perfect - I had an incredible birth on the first one up to the point where my baby was born but then ended up with a spinal in theatre to remove the placenta. The amazing thing was - there was no fear. While GB can't guarantee the exact birth you want, what it does is remove the fear. On the second one, I had planned a home birth but went post 42 weeks and had to have my baby in hospital. I was eventually induced, which would have been my worst nightmare, and ended up having a great experience but I did use every tool in the box, including counterpressure techniques, acupressure, visualisation, and a bit of gas and air to get me through a very intense labour.

What GentleBirth did for me was make the births the best they could be - I can honestly say I loved most of my labour on the first one and laboured at home for a long time. It's a treasured memory.

I don't think you can prepare too much. Think of how much people spend on their weddings. You see Bugaboos everywhere and they are over 1k. I don't think 375e is too much to spend on a day that you are going to remember in crystal clear detail for the rest of your life. You relive your birth experience over and over and over again. Part of the reason I got into this business is that it makes me so sad that many women are reliving bad experiences.

Best of luck, whatever you decide on!

What's normal to one person might not be normal to another. Some people want to go into hospital and have elective sections whether there is a need for them or not and that is their choice. Normal is subjective. Believe it or not some people want medically managed labours.

Pachamammy

I'm talking about the medical definition of a normal birth ie a physiological birth. But I understand what you mean. I was responding to the post regarding "both" types of birth. One of these was medical. The accepted terminology in birth circles for a birth that doesn't involve medical intervention is "normal".

I've not had one of these elusive "normal" births myself, as you can see from my post above. Of course, some people want medically managed births - the great thing for them is that it's no problem getting one. A physiological birth is very difficult to achieve in this country.

pwurple

I don't see how "both" types of birth are not available? We all know plenty of women who have had them.

Sligo1

Pachamammy wrote: »

The accepted terminology in birth circles for a birth that doesn't involve medical intervention is "normal".

Can you please provide a link citing this statement? I actually think it is ridiculous... But if there is a medical definition of a "normal birth" that involves this terminology then fair enough...

Are you stating that a woman who has a perfectly normal vaginal birth to a healthy baby is considered not to have had a "normal" birth because they may have received pethidine or some form or pain relief?

Pachamammy

pwurple wrote: »

I don't see how "both" types of birth are not available? We all know plenty of women who have had them.

How many women do you know who have gone into labour themselves, had no intervention to speed it up, birthed the baby without instruments and delivered the placenta without an injection to help? The percentages are extremely low. Natural third stage in one of the main maternity hospitals one year was less than one percent. Available, in theory. Easily available? No.

eviltwin

God its not a competition,ffs. I had both my children following inductions and I had epidurals for both. That was exactly what I wanted and I would consider them both to be normal. I know that certain women, and men, feel that's not the same as a spontaneous labour but for medical reasons it was needed and I felt more comfortable with the management. I know one woman who did calmbirth and it went brilliantly for her but keep an open mind about everything, you can't ever predict what will happen on the day. Good luck and congratulations.

Sligo1

Pachamammy wrote: »

How many women do you know who have gone into labour themselves, had no intervention to speed it up, birthed the baby without instruments and delivered the placenta without an injection to help? The percentages are extremely low. Natural third stage in one of the main maternity hospitals one year was less than one percent. Available, in theory. Easily available? No.

But both options are available if you just refuse... And I really don't think receiving pain relief or a bit of help means one hasn't had a "normal" birth. I laboured normally and progressed very well... Yes the midwives wanted to put up oxytocin after the 2 hours as per hospital policy... But I let them know I didn't need it. 2 hours later I was 10 cm... And baby was out in 8 minutes or 3 contractions. Options are always availiable so long as the mother and father are aware of their rights as a patient... They right to refuse is their perogative....

Your earlier statement of natural births and medically managed births not both being available i feel is quite incorrect...

January

Sligo1 wrote: »

But both options are available if you just refuse... I laboured normally and progressed very well... Yes the midwives wanted to put up oxytocin after the 2 hours as per hospital policy... But I let them I know I didn't need it. 2 hours later I was 10 cm... And baby was out in 8 minutes or 3 contractions. Options are always a availiable so long as the mother and father are aware of their rights as a patient... They right to refuse is their perogative....

And I don't believe anyone should have to pay to know those rights.

Pachamammy

Sligo1 wrote: »

Can you please provide a link citing this statement? I actually think it is ridiculous... But if there is a medical definition of a "normal birth" that involves this terminology then fair enough...

Are you stating that a woman who has a perfectly normal vaginal birth to a healthy baby is considered not to have had a "normal" birth because they may have received pethidine or some form or pain relief?

Pethidine is not considered to be a "medical intervention" as such. Medical interventions include breaking the waters to start labour, speeding up labour artificially with drugs, use of the epidural, use of forceps or ventouse, an episiotomy or a c section.

Apologies if this has upset people - it certainly wasn't my intention and it's not my definition. There are tons of links I could post. This one is a document from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in the UK and the definition of normal birth or normal delivery is on page 3. As I said, both of my own births have involved assistance in some way. My use of the word normal was in no way competitive - if it were I'd have lost the competition!! It was simply a use of normative terminology around birth - I didn't come up with it.

http://www.rcog.org.uk/files/rcog-corp/uploaded-files/JointStatmentNormalBirth2007.pdf

Sligo1

January wrote: »

And I don't believe anyone should have to pay to know those rights.

Completely agree! Everybody should know they are not obligated to do or take anything they don't want to! They don't need a course to know this.... And if they do want something... It doesn't mean they can't classify themselves as having a "normal" birth.

Pachamammy

Sligo1 wrote: »

But both options are available if you just refuse... They right to refuse is their perogative....
.

Absolutely, of course they are. But many women don't know that they can refuse. It's great to hear from women who have been very much informed in the decision making process of birth.

Couchkitten

I only got the birth package MP3s ...next time I would do the course. I managed without a squeak until around 9cms when I lost my focus and asked for Gas and air which made me lose my focus even more. The midwives could not believe how calm I was up until that point.

Unfortunately the pushing stage didn't go well and I ended up in theater but gentlebirth breathing kept me calm again there, would highly recommend.

Pachamammy

Sligo1 wrote: »

Completely agree! Everybody should know they are not obligated to do or take anything they don't want to! They don't need a course to know this..

How do they find this out though? From women like yourself...unfortunately there aren't enough women out there questioning their care.

Pachamammy

January wrote: »

And I don't believe anyone should have to pay to know those rights.

I agree with you. Where do you suggest women go for this information though? And how do you suggest men learn how to support their partners in labour? The hospital classes neither prepare women to question their care or prepare their birth partner to offer support. It would be fantastic if they did.

Hello Lady!

I have to say, as someone who is now on her third inpatient admission to the pre-natal ward, my first hand experience is that no specific treatment was pushed on anyone. I have been there when about 10 women went into labour. Not once have I heard a midwife insist or push any specific treatment. Each time the medical, pharmaceutical and natural options were offered. In fact most times the patient has requested medical help before having it offered, and again on each occasion the midwife asks 'are you sure? The downside is x/y/z'.

In fairness to the midwifery staff, it is a difficult line to straddle - encouraging women and empowering them to do what their body is able to do and yet not seeming to withhold medical options or promote interventions or any agenda. It's not easy by any means.

The one thing I definitely came away from my ante natal classes with, was the knowledge that my body is able to do this thing, and I need to trust it, but know that if I prefer to have assistance, be that medical, pharmaceutical or otherwise then that is available too and I am free to ask for it. Same goes for breastfeeding.

From my own consultant I have been told that unless I insist on a section or there is a safety reason, her preference is for a normal vaginal birth. At the time I actually assumed all twin births were sections. As it turns out my first twin is presenting breech so it most likely will be a section. Now add some medical complications into the mix and it's starting to look like it'll be a planned section. But at no time was that taken for granted and I have never felt that a specific mode of delivery was pushed on me. Even now if I wanted to try for a vaginal birth it would be considered and only excluded if the risk is too great.

That's just been my experience anyway.

eviltwin

Pachamammy wrote: »

I agree with you. Where do you suggest women go for this information though? And how do you suggest men learn how to support their partners in labour? The hospital classes neither prepare women to question their care or prepare their birth partner to offer support. It would be fantastic if they did.

Why should they have to pay multiple hundreds of euros to learn it? Sounds like a nice money maker for someone.

SanFran07

January wrote: »

And I don't believe anyone should have to pay to know those rights.

You're absolutely correct - this information should be freely available from the hospital mum is attending. The pros/cons of every routine (aka not medically indicated) intervention should be freely discussed in the antenatal period so parents can make informed decisions on the day.

Evidence based care should be the norm in Ireland rather than the exception. Most first time Mums are not aware that they can refuse non medically indicated interruptions to the birth process because there is an assumption that it must be necessary....they are generally not aware of the time limits and space pressures of the labour ward and how that will impact their care on the day.

Pachamammy

Hello Lady! wrote: »

I have to say, as someone who is now on her third inpatient admission to the pre-natal ward, my first hand experience is that no specific treatment was pushed on anyone.

That's great that that has been your experience. Hospital policy is often to intervene though - for example, in some maternity units, inductions are preferred at 10 days, wheareas in others it's 14 days, in accordance with evidence. In some maternity units, it's still policy to break the waters when you're admitted. Many women don't mind any of this. Some women do, but they don't know they can refuse something that is hospital policy.

Sligo1

Pachamammy wrote: »

Pethidine is not considered to be a "medical intervention" as such. Medical interventions include breaking the waters to start labour, speeding up labour artificially with drugs, use of the epidural, use of forceps or ventouse, an episiotomy or a c section.

Apologies if this has upset people - it certainly wasn't my intention and it's not my definition. There are tons of links I could post. This one is a document from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in the UK and the definition of normal birth or normal delivery is on page 3. As I said, both of my own births have involved assistance in some way. My use of the word normal was in no way competitive - if it were I'd have lost the competition!! It was simply a use of normative terminology around birth - I didn't come up with it.

http://www.rcog.org.uk/files/rcog-corp/uploaded-files/JointStatmentNormalBirth2007.pdf

Perhaps I misread the earlier posts. I initially thought you were saying that drug and drug free births are not both readily avaliable... Which is incorrect...

I also thought your definition provided of a normal birth lacked validity... I haven't had time to read your link (thank you for providing) as it is a good few pages. However, I'm still not sure how a naturally occurring vaginal birth where the mother has relieved some form of pain relief whether it be pethidine, epidural etc... Could not be defined as normal. However, this is not my specialist area so I could well be wrong.

I in no means opposed to GB. I think it's brilliant if that was has worked for some people. And maybe I will go and buy one of the books and have a read. However, I am opposed to people saying there are not options available when there are...

Chattastrophe!

Pachamammy wrote: »

I agree with you. Where do you suggest women go for this information though? And how do you suggest men learn how to support their partners in labour? The hospital classes neither prepare women to question their care or prepare their birth partner to offer support. It would be fantastic if they did.

Actually I found the hospital antenatal classes great, for both me and my boyfriend. All the options were outlined, with the pros and cons of each of them. I very much got the impression that the hospital staff will give their opinions, but the parents make the decisions about their care. I wouldn't feel at all uncomfortable about declining certain procedures or treatments if I didn't want them.

There's LOADS of information available online about pregnancy and birth. I'm not afraid of labour, I'm looking forward to the experience, and I think my boyfriend and I are quite clued in about all the potential outcomes. While I'd like a natural experience, if I need medical intervention or a C Section or whatever else, I'm fine with that too. I don't feel the need to spend hundreds of euro on a course, I can think of lots more important things to spend it on!

Pachamammy

eviltwin wrote: »

Why should they have to pay multiple hundreds of euros to learn it? .

They shouldn't have to - the information should be freely available in their maternity hospital.

People don't have to pay to go semi private or private to have their babies - there is a free service available publicly. There is a free antenatal education programme available in hospitals. Couples who aren't happy with what's included in that can choose to do a private antenatal programme that meets their needs better.

Sligo1

I agree, woman and their birthing partners find out A LOT by attending the antenatal classes and asking questions. My husband learnt how to support me during the process and we both learnt about the different methods of medical and pharmaceutical interventions aswell as the contraindications and possible complications amd side effects of same. They also taught us about the non-pharmaceutical types of pains relief like breathing exercises and TENS etc...

Hello Lady!

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Actually I found the hospital antenatal classes great, for both me and my boyfriend. All the options were outlined, with the pros and cons of each of them. I very much got the impression that the hospital staff will give their opinions, but the parents make the decisions about their care. I wouldn't feel at all uncomfortable about declining certain procedures or treatments if I didn't want them.

Have to agree, same for me. The only difference is with regards to my husband, but I can't blame the hospital for that as if he had attended all the classes I am sure it would have been different. Because we didn't have the spare cash for weekend classes, and dad's are only entitled to paid time off for 2 classes he didn't get the full benefit of the classes that I got.

So it goes back to the earlier comment about having to either pay for the info or settle for limited info. At the time I didn't think it would matter all that much if dad didn't get to all classes, but with hindsight he should have and taken unpaid leave. But not everyone can afford to do that. More evening or weekend free classes would be brilliant. Either that or a legal entitlement for dad's to attend a whole set of classes.

Pachamammy

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Actually I found the hospital antenatal classes great, for both me and my boyfriend.

Great to hear! I know, for example, that the midwife teaching the classes in the Coombe is fantastic and really encourages women to become partners in their care.

Sadly, that wasn't my experience in antenatal class where I was laughed at by the midwife when I said I didn't plan on the epidural. Not terribly encouraging!

As regards previous posts regarding interventions being pushed - if you look at bump2babe.ie, the stats on there show the rates of interventions in different maternity units. Episiotomy rates, for example, vary widely.

There is tons of information out there, and it's all readily and easily available through resources like the above. The workshop gives a focus to those who feel that that would be useful to them. It's particularly useful for Dads to know how they can practically help their partners on the day - and they are generally amazing once they feel confident and have a few ideas on how to help reduce pain, such as acupressure and counterpressure etc.

eviltwin

Pachamammy wrote: »

They shouldn't have to - the information should be freely available in their maternity hospital.

People don't have to pay to go semi private or private to have their babies - there is a free service available publicly. There is a free antenatal education programme available in hospitals. Couples who aren't happy with what's included in that can choose to do a private antenatal programme that meets their needs better.

Unfortunately its not, its hard to get any info, harder when you don't know what information you're looking for or what to ask. Most people defer to medical staff because they feel they know best, not everyone knows about hypnobirthing or could afford to do it even if they did. They don't need those who can being dismissive about their experience and telling them it's not normal.

Pachamammy

[QUOTE=Hello Lady!;87827638 More evening or weekend free classes would be brilliant. Either that or a legal entitlement for dad's to attend a whole set of classes.[/QUOTE]

That would be fantastic - it's incredibly unfair that men don't have time off to attend antenatal classes. It's equally important for them..

SanFran07

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Actually I found the hospital antenatal classes great, for both me and my boyfriend. All the options were outlined, with the pros and cons of each of them. I very much got the impression that the hospital staff will give their opinions, but the parents make the decisions about their care. I wouldn't feel at all uncomfortable about declining certain procedures or treatments if I didn't want them.

There's LOADS of information available online about pregnancy and birth. I'm not afraid of labour, I'm looking forward to the experience, and I think my boyfriend and I are quite clued in about all the potential outcomes. While I'd like a natural experience, if I need medical intervention or a C Section or whatever else, I'm fine with that too. I don't feel the need to spend hundreds of euro on a course, I can think of lots more important things to spend it on!

Sounds like you've hit the jackpot with your antenatal classes. It's great to hear that!

It's really good to hear that the tide is turning in maternity services and couples are being told the pros/cons of breaking your waters on admission especially that it's not medically necessary and creates problems for mums and babies. That food/drink should not be restricted and mum should eat if she's hungry. It's also great to know that the admissions CTG monitoring is now outdated practice and healthy babies are monitored intermittently. I'm really glad that hospitals are also now explaining the risks associated with coached pushing (holding your breath for sustained periods) rather than mother led too and how important delayed cord clamping is for newborns. And no more unnecessary episiotomies - glad we've moved away from 50% perineal surgery for first time mums in some units. No doubt the options of drugs for the 3rd stage is really clear now especially for mums planning on breastfeeding.

Almost all of the routine procedures found in our maternity hospitals (particularly NMH) are on the NICE UK 'Do Not Do' list.