ARW training FFL?

deravarra

westdub wrote: »

Exactly....due to the nature of their work the ARW wont be telling anyone the full story of where they have been, that includes members of the PDF and even their family's wont know the full story...
Can you imagine a member of any similar unit like the SAS or SEAL's telling everyone that asks what the have been doing?

Oh seriously ...

Any armed force at the behest of its government will deploy to anywhere in the world, if it serves the country's interests. Where do you think the Irish government would want the ARW to deploy in some secret mission?

Frosty McSnowballs

deravarra wrote: »

Care to mention how many wars/combat scenarios the PDF were in? How many ops the ARW took part in? Nothing major - nothing that stands out.

How does that negate their professionalism?

deravarra

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

How does that negate their professionalism?

I assume they are paid, so they are professional - but are they on par in similar situations as the SAS and the Green Berets, GSG9, etc? No

Frosty McSnowballs

deravarra wrote: »

I assume they are paid, so they are professional - but are they on par in similar situations as the SAS and the Green Berets, GSG9, etc? No

Ha this old argument! My da would kill your da!

The ARW have obviously not been as operational as the above units, publically or not. Any ARW debate will always annoy people as anyone in the know cannot/will not be divulging any information on this forum, this allows sceptics and "comparer's" like yourself to hide behind opsec, thus providing sufficient cover for your opinions.

Instead of comparing SOF from around the globe against each other, why not just state what we know about the ARW and base opinions on those merits?

I am not of the opinion that the ARW are the best SOF in the world. I think they are highly disciplined individuals with great capability, skill and training that would be on par with most other SOF units.

The fact that they have not had the opportunity to storm Nakatomi Plaza for the media does not automatically mean they are shiite.

I know they have been in a situation overseas where they saved lives. That can't be a bad thing. I know they repeatedly did well while competing against other specialist units....fair enough, it's only a competition but beating other units whose military budget and operational experiences far outweigh ours, isn't a bad thing. I know how very little credit they get but that's not why they are there.

I know that anything they have been tasked with, they have done to their best ability, you can't ask more than that.

Unfortunately I know other anecdotes but there ya go. Ultimately, we don't need to justify how they have, would or might, past, present or future, perform if tasked.

deravarra

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

Ha this old argument! My da would kill your da!

The ARW have obviously not been as operational as the above units, publically or not. Any ARW debate will always annoy people as anyone in the know cannot/will not be divulging any information on this forum, this allows sceptics and "comparer's" like yourself to hide behind opsec, thus providing sufficient cover for your opinions.

Instead of comparing SOF from around the globe against each other, why not just state what we know about the ARW and base opinions on those merits?

I am not of the opinion that the ARW are the best SOF in the world. I think they are highly disciplined individuals with great capability, skill and training that would be on par with most other SOF units.

The fact that they have not had the opportunity to storm Nakatomi Plaza for the media does not automatically mean they are shiite.

I know they have been in a situation overseas where they saved lives. That can't be a bad thing. I know they repeatedly did well while competing against other specialist units....fair enough, it's only a competition but beating other units whose military budget and operational experiences far outweigh ours, isn't a bad thing. I know how very little credit they get but that's not why they are there.

I know that anything they have been tasked with, they have done to their best ability, you can't ask more than that.

Unfortunately I know other anecdotes but there ya go. Ultimately, we don't need to justify how they have, would or might, past, present or future, perform if tasked.

I am not saying that they are rubbish.

Maybe if they were in the same situations as the likes of the Iranian Embassy in London, or Kolwezi, Entebbe, or Maersk Alabama, they could show their mettle - but they havent been, nor are they likely to be - so to assume that they rank alongside elite forces or special ops units from around the world would be as ridiculous as mentioning Nakatomi building. Next thing, you'll be mentioning Chuck Norris!

Frosty McSnowballs

deravarra wrote: »

I am not saying that they are rubbish.

Maybe if they were in the same situations as the likes of the Iranian Embassy in London, or Kolwezi, Entebbe, or Maersk Alabama, they could show their mettle - but they havent been, nor are they likely to be - so to assume that they rank alongside elite forces or special ops units from around the world would be as ridiculous as mentioning Nakatomi building. Next thing, you'll be mentioning Chuck Norris!

Well now, to assume that they will never be in a **** situation is ridiculous. They have been. Being tasked with locating and rescuing hostages in an unfamiliar territory, resulting in all hostages being located and freed, and capturing the rogue leader without firing a shot. ???? The problem here is twofold.

1. You don't know what you are talking about, and

2. You don't know what you are talking about.

If they are not up to par then why would they be allowed cross train with other SOF units? Why have they been allowed hold important appointments overseas? (Not that you would know that of course)

What do you know of conventional military tactics? They are largely universal, any particular SOP which differs from our own would be easily adaptable In most scenarios.

If you instruct a soldier how to operate a rifle, he will be able to operate any rifle with minimal adaption.

Teach a SOF member explosive demolition, CT work, advanced diving, sniping, parachuting etc....the foundations are the same. Insertions and small unit tactics will not drastically differ. They will be interoperable,

The difference will come down to personal drill and unit cohesion. If you say an ARW member is not as good as a Delta, Ranger, GSG9, GIGN.....that is ridiculous.

If you picked one guy from 6 different SOF units from around the world and put them in a team together with an ARW member and gave them a task.....I'm pretty sure they would get it done.

Irrespective of operational experience,

Are you now trying to say that these guys, who are highly trained, if were given the opportunity....that they couldn't pull it off?

You are a head case!

delta-boy

Id smash the ARW in phys to skills and drills, over glorified blokes.

deravarra

delta-boy wrote: »

Id smash the ARW in phys to skills and drills, over glorified blokes.

Eh no you wouldnt ..

deravarra

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

Well now, to assume that they will never be in a **** situation is ridiculous. They have been. Being tasked with locating and rescuing hostages in an unfamiliar territory, resulting in all hostages being located and freed, and capturing the rogue leader without firing a shot. ???? The problem here is twofold.

1. You don't know what you are talking about, and

2. You don't know what you are talking about.

If they are not up to par then why would they be allowed cross train with other SOF units? Why have they been allowed hold important appointments overseas? (Not that you would know that of course)

What do you know of conventional military tactics? They are largely universal, any particular SOP which differs from our own would be easily adaptable In most scenarios.

If you instruct a soldier how to operate a rifle, he will be able to operate any rifle with minimal adaption.

Teach a SOF member explosive demolition, CT work, advanced diving, sniping, parachuting etc....the foundations are the same. Insertions and small unit tactics will not drastically differ. They will be interoperable,

The difference will come down to personal drill and unit cohesion. If you say an ARW member is not as good as a Delta, Ranger, GSG9, GIGN.....that is ridiculous.

If you picked one guy from 6 different SOF units from around the world and put them in a team together with an ARW member and gave them a task.....I'm pretty sure they would get it done.

Irrespective of operational experience,

Are you now trying to say that these guys, who are highly trained, if were given the opportunity....that they couldn't pull it off?

You are a head case!

Less of the personal insults mate, and more debate on facts.

The Irish government has not, is not and probably will never be likely to have a military target overseas for the ARW - our "special" forces - to be deployed in any full blown, military tactical deployment - i.e. war or covert ops.

Any of the deployments to date have all been peace-keeping, mostly logistical or reconnaissance ahead of regular defence force deployments (which were also peacekeeping. Those are facts. Any jibberish about covert ops is just that - jibberish.

For any military action to be undertaken by the Irish Military, it must be sanctioned by the Irish government. That is Dail Eireann. Each of the deployments by any of our military at any stage in our country's history has been sanctioned by the government.

Now, let's get real:
Are our forces well trained? Yes! Absolutely - no doubt about it.
Are our soldiers more professional than ever? Yes!
Are our soldiers able to perform the tasks asked of them? Yes!

Do our forces perform well in international military competitions? Yes. They have done so on many occasions.
Is the ARW an elite force of irish soldiers? Yes - in Ireland, they are elite.

How does the ARW compare to other elite units worldwide? There can be no comparison, because they only metric we have which pairs special forces/elite units is the competition results. This is a non combative situation, and cannot therefore be seen as an accurate measure of how good a MILITARY unit might operate in a COMBAT situation/

Tell me something Senor Jingle Balls - if the Army and the ARW was such a top notch military group - how come scores of Irish men have left them and joined the British Army? Or the FFL? Or the US Marines?

I'll tell you why ... because no amount of training/upskilling in a redundant military will ever match the real training in the theatre of war.

tac foley

delta-boy wrote: »

Id smash the ARW in phys to skills and drills, over glorified blokes.

Dear delta-boy/troll - as they say, 'in your dreams'.

tac

Frosty McSnowballs

You must be soft if you class "head case" as a personal insult.

Right, no need to tell me how we get to deploy overseas, it's a triple lock system which I am familiar with. I have been the end result of that system.

I never said the ARW would be deployed in overt/covert ops overseas. They deploy overseas like the rest of us. They do however hold important appointments overseas, which regular soldiers can't fill. You don't know what they are, I do.

I acknowledge that you agree that they are well trained and I agree that there is little substitute for the real thing.

You seemed to miss the example where I told you the ARW have Infact done a job.

You also seem to forget that any lessons learned from other SOF units which the ARW cross train with can be adapted to our SOP's.

Other SOF units still train too yknow. The problem here is your only knowledge of SOF workings come from tv and the Internet.

delta-boy

deravarra wrote: »

Eh no you wouldnt ..

Haha maybe ill never find out but I'll know about how the FFL compare next month

Local-womanizer

delta-boy wrote: »

Haha maybe ill never find out but I'll know about how the FFL compare next month

Ah so you've served in the ARW and are now joining the legion, that way you will be able to compare?

delta-boy

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Ah so you've served in the ARW and are now joining the legion, that way you will be able to compare?

Well not the ARW but how they compare to me

Local-womanizer

delta-boy wrote: »

Well not the ARW but how they compare to me

Do us the pleasure and tell us please! You obviously have had some operational involvement of some sort with them?

cruasder777

deravarra wrote: »

I am not saying that they are rubbish.

Maybe if they were in the same situations as the likes of the Iranian Embassy in London, or Kolwezi, Entebbe, or Maersk Alabama, they could show their mettle - but they havent been, nor are they likely to be - so to assume that they rank alongside elite forces or special ops units from around the world would be as ridiculous as mentioning Nakatomi building. Next thing, you'll be mentioning Chuck Norris!

By and large the SAS got lucky at the Princess Gate siege, if the terrorists had put up resistance, it would have been very different, one even threw a grenade which he forgot to take the pin out of, if the terrorists had booby trapped the stair cases with grenades and fishing wire, there would have been casualties. They also made a tactical error of rappelling and not using ladders.

But the operation apart from that was first class, remember it was 1980.

All special forces units are over rated and hyped by the media. Their strength is learning fast in new tactical environments.



Logically the more new environments you are deployed to the more likely you are to make operational mistakes.

Look at the SAS in the Falklands, how they came unstuck on South Georgia, caught out by an snow storm and had to be rescued in at least two other occasions from the sea and blizzards.

Such things are inevitable when operating at the threshold of military operations.

Im sure the Wing are just as professional at bread and butter SOF SOPS, as the Brits, Americans etc.

But expect they are very limited in the likes of High altitude and desert and arctic warfare,Special reconnaissance etc.

deravarra

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

The problem here is your only knowledge of SOF workings come from tv and the Internet.

Really?

You have absolutely no idea

Frosty McSnowballs

deravarra wrote: »

Really?

You have absolutely no idea

Well that's the way your posts read. You are on here trying to tell me and others that the ARW are not on par with other SOF units. They have to be. Your reasoning for this seems to be based on media coverage.

There are people here who are serving or ex military from various countries and units. Some may have served in, operated with or cross trained with the ARW. Some here know members personally. There are people here who are aware of what they have done. There are people here who have heard what other nations soldiers have said about PDF troops and ARW members....good things.

The idea that the ARW are not on par with other units because of limited operational deployments is ridiculous. Or is it a case of typical Irish "sure we are useless" attitude?

Once again, I'm not here waving "the ARW are the greatest bar none" flag. They are however on par.

My opinions are based on actual knowledge of the ARW here. What are yours based on?

tac foley

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

Well that's the way your posts read. You are on here trying to tell me and others that the ARW are not on par with other SOF units. They have to be. Your reasoning for this seems to be based on media coverage.

There are people here who are serving or ex military from various countries and units. Some may have served in, operated with or cross trained with the ARW. Some here know members personally. There are people here who are aware of what they have done. There are people here who have heard what other nations soldiers have said about PDF troops and ARW members....good things.

The idea that the ARW are not on par with other units because of limited operational deployments is ridiculous. Or is it a case of typical Irish "sure we are useless" attitude?

Once again, I'm not here waving "the ARW are the greatest bar none" flag. They are however on par.

My opinions are based on actual knowledge of the ARW here. What are yours based on?

Yeah. What HE said.

Mr deravarra - put up or shut up.

tac

deravarra

tac foley wrote: »

Mr deravarra - put up or shut up.

tac

Eh no. Never tell anyone to shut up.

deravarra

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

Well that's the way your posts read. You are on here trying to tell me and others that the ARW are not on par with other SOF units. They have to be. Your reasoning for this seems to be based on media coverage.

There are people here who are serving or ex military from various countries and units. Some may have served in, operated with or cross trained with the ARW. Some here know members personally. There are people here who are aware of what they have done. There are people here who have heard what other nations soldiers have said about PDF troops and ARW members....good things.

The idea that the ARW are not on par with other units because of limited operational deployments is ridiculous. Or is it a case of typical Irish "sure we are useless" attitude?

Once again, I'm not here waving "the ARW are the greatest bar none" flag. They are however on par.

My opinions are based on actual knowledge of the ARW here. What are yours based on?

And what is your "actual knowledge" of the ARW?

Based on your very much wide of the mark conclusions from reading my posts, I doubt it that anything I would say would come up to the mark in your "logic".

For the record, I have worked with a number of people over a good few years who have served in Defence Forces worldwide. I have worked alongside a few ex ARW folks. I still work alongside one. I have worked with a former member of the 2nd REP who had served in the Marines Commandos before that.

Any of the conversations that I have had with one ex ARW guy has always come back to his regret for not having left and gone to the UK to eventually try for the special forces there.

Now, you tell me why someone serving in Ireland's elite would come out with a statement like that?

For the consummate professional that he was, and still is in his current employment, why would he regret remaining with the ARW and not jump ship?

Frosty McSnowballs

deravarra wrote: »

And what is your "actual knowledge" of the ARW?

Based on your very much wide of the mark conclusions from reading my posts, I doubt it that anything I would say would come up to the mark in your "logic".

For the record, I have worked with a number of people over a good few years who have served in Defence Forces worldwide. I have worked alongside a few ex ARW folks. I still work alongside one. I have worked with a former member of the 2nd REP who had served in the Marines Commandos before that.

Any of the conversations that I have had with one ex ARW guy has always come back to his regret for not having left and gone to the UK to eventually try for the special forces there.

Now, you tell me why someone serving in Ireland's elite would come out with a statement like that?

For the consummate professional that he was, and still is in his current employment, why would he regret remaining with the ARW and not jump ship?

You have second/third hand verbal knowledge of a SOF unit then? Am I correct in that? I don't know what environment you work in but if its one that attracts the likes of ex SOF members from various countries, it must be "busy".

Presuming the ex ARW guy is in fact ex ARW, his regrets doubtfully mean the unit is not on par with others. I am aware of many guys leaving the DF to go to the Uk, it's what some lads want to do, no matter what unit they are in.

So let me wrap my tiny little mind around your knowledge of SOF ops.

1. You heard the info from an ex ARW guy who you work with?

May I remind you that you started with this comment "For those of you who would be more in the know rather than a mere mortal like myself - is this true?"

Is this the same work colleague who told you the ARW train the FFL? I hope it's not......for your knowledge sake.

And just to finish with, if you indeed have an ex ARW member working with you, direct any more questions to him about being on par with ther units. Alternatively, PM me his name and I will tell you if he served there or not.

Anyway, that's all from me on this. Can't be wasting anymore time saying the same stuff. Best of luck, Merry Christmas

deravarra

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

You have second/third hand verbal knowledge of a SOF unit then? Am I correct in that? I don't know what environment you work in but if its one that attracts the likes of ex SOF members from various countries, it must be "busy".

Presuming the ex ARW guy is in fact ex ARW, his regrets doubtfully mean the unit is not on par with others. I am aware of many guys leaving the DF to go to the Uk, it's what some lads want to do, no matter what unit they are in.

So let me wrap my tiny little mind around your knowledge of SOF ops.

1. You heard the info from an ex ARW guy who you work with?

May I remind you that you started with this comment "For those of you who would be more in the know rather than a mere mortal like myself - is this true?"

Is this the same work colleague who told you the ARW train the FFL? I hope it's not......for your knowledge sake.

And just to finish with, if you indeed have an ex ARW member working with you, direct any more questions to him about being on par with ther units. Alternatively, PM me his name and I will tell you if he served there or not.

Anyway, that's all from me on this. Can't be wasting anymore time saying the same stuff. Best of luck, Merry Christmas

Again, quite the insulting retort I have come to expect from you.

1. My company recruits the brightest and best from diverse backgrounds. Ex military make up a small percentage overall, but those who have a military background are generally have had SOF experience.

2. Yes, I did start the thread with that query - asking if the ARW trained the FFL. The intimation from your pointing that out is that I was lying, which I find quite offensive and objectionable. You may be aware that people do work different shift/work patterns, and are allowed to take annual leave by their companies. I dont keep work colleagues in my back pocket so that I can pick their brains on trivia. I deferred to this forum to ask that question and hopefully get an instant reply from someone knowledgeable in this particular instance. Thankfully, the first few people were polite, courteous, and provided me with the information I required. After that, some others decided to take thread in an altogether different direction.

3. My knowledge is certainly second hand, and not third. I would not dare to suggest it is first hand knowledge. I never claimed it to be so.

4. Why the hell would I PM you the name of someone in the ARW? I would never reveal his identity to anyone.

Senor Jingle Balls wrote: »

Anyway, that's all from me on this. Can't be wasting anymore time saying the same stuff.

That is the best thing you have said so far. Hope you keep your word

deravarra

delta-boy wrote: »

Id smash the ARW in phys to skills and drills, over glorified blokes.

Kindly refrain from PM'ing me. If you find offence at my defending the ARW from your nonsensical post, then kindly block me.

Savage93

1. My company recruits the brightest and best from diverse backgrounds.



Where the fcuk did they get you then???????????

deravarra

Savage93 wrote: »

1. My company recruits the brightest and best from diverse backgrounds.



Where the fcuk did they get you then???????????

Not from the same flea infested cesspit you crawled out of

At least I don't have problems constructing an eight word sentence with the need to edit for a typo

goldie fish

Now girls, play nice.

Savage93

deravarra wrote: »

Not from the same flea infested cesspit you crawled out of

At least I don't have problems constructing an eight word sentence with the need to edit for a typo

You must have some really serious issues to be that vicious, you'd probably be better off seeking professional help than trolling:D:D:D:D:D:D

deravarra

Savage93 wrote: »

You must have some really serious issues to be that vicious, you'd probably be better off seeking professional help than trolling:D:D:D:D:D:D

Trolling? An OP trolling his own post?

Pfft. Now you need help

Local-womanizer

I think it's time to bow out of the thread, when it's become nothing more than a dick measuring contest. It's bad enough that it's happening over PM, but I'm sure someone's buddies in a certain para regiment would find it amusing that one of their own is going around the internet telling people of their membership to said regiment, presumably for the fact it means they are obviously in the know everything ARW....it couldn't be for any other reason I'm sure....