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ARW training FFL?

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  • 17-11-2013 10:03pm
    #1
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭


    A work "colleague" suggested that the ARW were training the French Foreign Legion. I nearly peed myself laughing at the suggestion.

    For those of you who would be more in the know rather than a mere mortal like myself - is this true?

    Or could it be more like that they had some training exercises together?


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    #2
    Frosty McSnowballs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭Frosty McSnowballs


    No


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    #3
    ace86
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭ace86


    deravarra wrote: »
    A work "colleague" suggested that the ARW were training the French Foreign Legion. I nearly peed myself laughing at the suggestion.

    For those of you who would be more in the know rather than a mere mortal like myself - is this true?

    Or could it be more like that they had some training exercises together?

    They might be doing training exercises together but unlikely, but they are definetly not training the FFL.


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    #4
    TITANIUM.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭TITANIUM.


    ace86 wrote: »
    They might be doing training exercises together but unlikely, but they are definetly not training the FFL.

    Quite possible. There's allot of xcross training done with these type of lads.
    Probably very specific tho.


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    #5
    BigDuffman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭BigDuffman


    deravarra wrote: »
    A work "colleague" suggested that the ARW were training the French Foreign Legion. I nearly peed myself laughing at the suggestion.

    For those of you who would be more in the know rather than a mere mortal like myself - is this true?

    Or could it be more like that they had some training exercises together?

    How that is phrased means a lot. Training an army or running a course for / with can be different.

    Armies cross train quite regularly. For example you will see a multitude of different nationalities camo down in the military college. If they're over here on a course in UNTSI for example then yes the Irish are "training" them. Same way the FFL may be doing a specialist course with the ARW.

    What would cause you to Pisa your self at the thoughts of an elite special forces unit training another nationalities regular units?


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    #6
    mdn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭mdn


    In answer to your third paragraph: Probably an inferiority complex and/or ignorance of the standards of the ARW.


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    In fairness, I'd say the OP just got the erroneous idea that the FFL's whole training was run by the ARW.


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    #8
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    I cannot imagine any circumstances where the FFL would ask the ARW to offer them training in desert, arctic or jungle warfare techniques and operations.

    Perhaps the work colleague would like to offer his opinion as to what element of military operations would be taught by the ARW?

    Shared exercises and training scenarios - such as hostage freeing and similar - THOSE I can easily see as cross-transferable skills. But in which direction?

    The FFL has wide experience in ALL kinds of I and OOA operations that the ARW simply does not have. When was the last time that the ARW was similarly involved in a live-ammunition, two-way shooting event of this nature? It seems to have in Chad, back in 2008 - 'An ARW force of 54 was deployed in 2008 in Chad as part of the peacekeeping European Union Force (EUFOR TCHAD/RCA). The ARW arrived on 19 February 2008 and completed reconnaissance missions to select a mission base for the Irish Defence Force deployment (later named "Camp Ciara").

    The FFL, on the other paw, are permanently deployed somewhere - ALL the time.

    tac


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    #9
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭deravarra


    BigDuffman wrote: »
    What would cause you to Pisa your self at the thoughts of an elite special forces unit training another nationalities regular units?

    Suggesting the ARW is an elite unit and the FFL would be a regular unit is laughable in itself/

    ARW is Ireland's "elite" unit - but how is it comparable to other countries units? How do you measure how good they are compared to SAS/SBS/GSG9/Delta, etc?

    A recce in Chad in prep for a peacekeeping force is not what most people could consider special forces or "elite" unit work.

    The Irish Defence Forces - albeit more professional than in previous times - could not be deemed to be as professional and as elite as the majority of our european counterparts.


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    #10
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭deravarra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In fairness, I'd say the OP just got the erroneous idea that the FFL's whole training was run by the ARW.

    My work colleague suggested that the ARW were training the FFL for some things.

    I never believed it.


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    #11
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    deravarra wrote: »
    How do you measure how good they are compared to SAS/SBS/GSG9/Delta, etc?

    You don't. You're not playing Top Trumps.

    The question you ask is "Does the ARW/SAS/.../whoever do the job assigned to them with the minimum of ****ups?". Yes? Great, move on. No? I'm sure they're working on fixing whatever's lacking.


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    #12
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    deravarra wrote: »
    Suggesting the ARW is an elite unit and the FFL would be a regular unit is laughable in itself/

    ARW is Ireland's "elite" unit - but how is it comparable to other countries units? How do you measure how good they are compared to SAS/SBS/GSG9/Delta, etc?

    A recce in Chad in prep for a peacekeeping force is not what most people could consider special forces or "elite" unit work.

    The Irish Defence Forces - albeit more professional than in previous times - could not be deemed to be as professional and as elite as the majority of our european counterparts.

    This article is 10 years old, but the unit has only gotten better since then.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/army-rangers-among-best-elite-forces-25935956.html

    The FFL is not a special forces unit, they are a highly trained, motivated, disciplined and professional army within an army. Think British Paras, and US Marines, not SAS and GSG9 which are small special spec ops units the same as the ARW.


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    #13
    wildfowler94
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭wildfowler94


    deravarra wrote: »
    Suggesting the ARW is an elite unit and the FFL would be a regular unit is laughable in itself/

    ARW is Ireland's "elite" unit - but how is it comparable to other countries units? How do you measure how good they are compared to SAS/SBS/GSG9/Delta, etc?

    A recce in Chad in prep for a peacekeeping force is not what most people could consider special forces or "elite" unit work.

    The Irish Defence Forces - albeit more professional than in previous times - could not be deemed to be as professional and as elite as the majority of our european counterparts.


    Do tell me how were not as professional as the majority of our european counterparts?
    and don't go spouting ****e I want facts to back up such a sweeping statement.


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    #14
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    The ARW are the very best that the PDF has - I would have been proud and happy to go to war with them, but I was never that good.

    tac


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    #15
    westdub
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭westdub


    deravarra wrote: »
    Suggesting the ARW is an elite unit and the FFL would be a regular unit is laughable in itself/

    ARW is Ireland's "elite" unit - but how is it comparable to other countries units? How do you measure how good they are compared to SAS/SBS/GSG9/Delta, etc?

    A recce in Chad in prep for a peacekeeping force is not what most people could consider special forces or "elite" unit work.

    The Irish Defence Forces - albeit more professional than in previous times - could not be deemed to be as professional and as elite as the majority of our european counterparts.

    The ARW is highly rated by all of their counterparts from all over the world, and dont forget that most of their work will never be known about by anyone outside the ARW ....
    .

    The Army Rangers are experts in land, air and sea combat and train closely with a number of internationally recognised units. They exercise in countries such as the United States of America (Army Rangers & Navy SEALs), United Kingdom (SAS), Canada (JTF2), Germany (GSG 9), France (GIGN), Italy (COMSUBIN), Sweden (SSG), Poland (GROM), Australia (SAS) and New Zealand (SAS).


    The Rangers conduct missions at home under their ‘Black Role’, and under their ‘Green Role’ overseas. Although their domestic involvement in Ireland remains secret, they have been officially deployed under the umbrellas of NATO (Partnership for Peace), the United Nations and the European Union. These include ‘peacekeeping’ engagements in Western Sahara, Somalia, Eritrea, Liberia, Central African Republic, Chad, Lebanon, West Timor (Indonesia) & East Timor (‘Timor-Leste’), Cyprus, Croatia, Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina. The ARW are also credited with limited involvement in the Sinai Desert (Egypt & Israel), the Iran-Iraq border and in the DR Congo.


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    #16
    ricky_spanish
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭ricky_spanish


    When I was in recruit training in the pdf (no longer pdf) we got a brief from the wing , one of the lads asked "do yous cross train much with nato like the us and uk?" Which we assumed they did , surprisingly he said no then mentioned the swedes and the dutch and germans I think .. when giving us a brief on deloyments it was a bit of an anti climax that it was everywhere the regular pdf lads had been and go I think a lot of us thought they were going to mention iraq and afghan , towards the end the captain announced "lads we can be anywhere in the world in 5 days" ......who knows I might have misheard him or he might have been mistaken but this all came from the horses
    mouth , quality soldiers no doubt fit and hardy as **** and much respect to them but there is a lot of mis information about them


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    #17
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    ricky_spanish wrote: »
    When I was in recruit training in the pdf (no longer pdf) we got a brief from the wing , one of the lads asked "do yous cross train much with nato like the us and uk?" Which we assumed they did , surprisingly he said no then mentioned the swedes and the dutch and germans I think .. when giving us a brief on deloyments it was a bit of an anti climax that it was everywhere the regular pdf lads had been and go I think a lot of us thought they were going to mention iraq and afghan , towards the end the captain announced "lads we can be anywhere in the world in 5 days" ......who knows I might have misheard him or he might have been mistaken but this all came from the horses
    mouth , quality soldiers no doubt fit and hardy as **** and much respect to them but there is a lot of mis information about them

    Well they're hardly going to tell everyone about all of their deployments are they? That would kind of defeat their purpose. I'd imagine they just give a list of the places the PDF are officially deployed, to quell any further questions.


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    #18
    westdub
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭westdub


    Exactly....due to the nature of their work the ARW wont be telling anyone the full story of where they have been, that includes members of the PDF and even their family's wont know the full story...
    Can you imagine a member of any similar unit like the SAS or SEAL's telling everyone that asks what the have been doing?


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    #19
    ricky_spanish
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭ricky_spanish


    Topper Harley wrote: »
    Well they're hardly going to tell everyone about all of their deployments are they? That would kind of defeat their purpose. I'd imagine they just give a list of the places the PDF are officially deployed, to quell any further questions.

    Id imagine .. meaning you dont know ... or that youd like to believe this or that .
    Believe me we were left with no doubt that he was telling us the honest truth
    Probably do some sneaky beaky work with the armef gardai but if you think overseas mission consider two things
    We are s neutral country
    And the arw captain boasted about a 5 day ready to move


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    #20
    ricky_spanish
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭ricky_spanish


    westdub wrote: »
    Exactly....due to the nature of their work the ARW wont be telling anyone the full story of where they have been, that includes members of the PDF and even their family's wont know the full story...
    Can you imagine a member of any similar unit like the SAS or SEAL's telling everyone that asks what the have been doing?

    Funnily enough after I finished training over here got a brief from the sbs .. much the same
    layout as the arw one , selections grand etc ha
    but they were happy to talk about deployments
    and spin some cool / funny stories about stuff theyd done on ops


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    #21
    Topper Harley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Topper Harley


    ricky_spanish wrote: »
    Id imagine .. meaning you dont know ... or that youd like to believe this or that .
    Believe me we were left with no doubt that he was telling us the honest truth
    Probably do some sneaky beaky work with the armef gardai but if you think overseas mission consider two things
    We are s neutral country
    And the arw captain boasted about a 5 day ready to move

    Well that's exactly my point, I don't know, as as most of us here don't.

    As for Ireland's neutrality, it's questionable at best but that's an issue for another thread and keeping quiet about any other deployments (if indeed there are any) would be paramount to maintaining our neutrality.


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    #22
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    That's one thing you'll always spot with real ARW people here. They don't do War Stories at all.


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    #23
    Miceail22
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Miceail22


    ricky_spanish wrote: »
    When I was in recruit training in the pdf (no longer pdf) we got a brief from the wing , one of the lads asked "do yous cross train much with nato like the us and uk?"

    He must have some brass ones to ask the captain that?

    War stories? You'd have to go to war to have war stories :)


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    #24
    ricky_spanish
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭ricky_spanish


    goldie fish wrote: »
    That's one thing you'll always spot with real ARW people here. They don't do War Stories at all.

    Because they dont have any.


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    #25
    ricky_spanish
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭ricky_spanish


    Miceail22 wrote: »
    He must have some brass ones to ask the captain that?

    War stories? You'd have to go to war to have war stories :)

    Can you not read ?
    I said he asked "does the wing cross train with nato troops ?" .. TRAIN being the key word , he didnt just go "hey yo cap tell us some ****in war stories there will ya"


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    #26
    Frosty McSnowballs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭Frosty McSnowballs


    ricky_spanish wrote: »
    Can you not read ?
    I said he asked "does the wing cross train with nato troops ?" .. TRAIN being the key word , he didnt just go "hey yo cap tell us some ****in war stories there will ya"

    Look man, you got the standard brief that all recruits get. Mostly about weapons, equipment and tactics and regular deployments. That is all you got. To say you know what they do and don't do because of a 2 hr intro is laughable.


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    #27
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Miceail22 wrote: »
    He must have some brass ones to ask the captain that?

    War stories? You'd have to go to war to have war stories :)
    ricky_spanish wrote: »
    Because they dont have any.

    Clearly you don't know much about the ARW, or war stories.:rolleyes:


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    #28
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    In my head the ARW wanted a few weeks in Sunny Corsica, the 2nd REP wanted a few weeks of hard drinking in Dublin.

    Somehow they made it work


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    #29
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    [MOD]
    Ricky_Spanish, ensure you have fully read the forum charter about conduct and whats acceptable / not acceptable in military etc. . . comments such as
    Can you not read ?
    are not nice at all, they can hurt soldiers feelings, especially those of us who can actually read, we may get upset and have a cry or run to mammy, so to prevent this show of emasculation, please attack the post and not the poster, otherwise someone will bite, retaliate and then infractions WILL be handed out and then a few people WILL have war stories to tell. Everyone else, please remain calm and keep your hands inside the ride at all times.
    [/MOD]


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    #30
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Well, there we were, deep in the .................................... in .................. with only our ..................and ................, and a few ........................... We had been ..............the previous ................. with the full intention of ......................... a full ........................, but due to ..................... from ...................... and ..............., were unable to get to the ................... before .................., and had had to ...................... in a ................. only ............. klicks from the ............... Our local ..............., called, strangely enough, ............., had taken one look at the ................. and scarpered, but not before ................... that ............. was about to ...................... to the .................... before ...............

    So, once again, it was ..............and the ............ to the .............., with only the .................. of us standing between ............... and total ....................

    Fill in the blanks.

    You know you can do it.

    tac

    tac


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    #31
    deravarra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭deravarra


    wildfowler94 wrote: »
    Do tell me how were not as professional as the majority of our european counterparts?
    and don't go spouting ****e I want facts to back up such a sweeping statement.

    Care to mention how many wars/combat scenarios the PDF were in? How many ops the ARW took part in? Nothing major - nothing that stands out.


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