Using the term Paki

Gbear

I always find it strange when seemingly benign words that are merely abbreviations of ordinary descriptive adjectives for nationality are turned into slurs.

Like Nipps for the Japanese (Nippon just meaning Japan).
Or pakis, obviously.

You wouldn't think that just removing "tani" turns a word into a slur by some magic but that's language for you.
Even nigg*r is just an anglicisation of black from one of the Romance languages (negro, noire, nero).

It's obvious when a racial slur is bound up in dehumanisation - when the word used is synonymous with savagery, barbarism, disease, vermin and filth.

When it's just an innocuous word taken though, it just goes to show that any word can be a slur. Context and the underlying meaning being the important part and not the word itself.

endacl

RoboRat wrote: »

Its more about the association of that name with Nazi soldiers during WWII actually

All German soldiers. Not just the Nazi ones. And not just those who fought in WWII. The term was first recorded in a British periodical in 1918.






*ahem* actually.....

The One Who Knocks

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Same thing as calling someone a Jew.

Not really given that jew refers to someone's religion & paki is just short for pakistani..

By that logic it would be the same as calling someone a protestant.

I think it all depends on the context it's used in, I know a few nice paki lads and they have no problem with it.

old hippy

Gbear wrote: »

I always find it strange when seemingly benign words that are merely abbreviations of ordinary descriptive adjectives for nationality are turned into slurs.

Like Nipps for the Japanese (Nippon just meaning Japan).
Or pakis, obviously.

You wouldn't think that just removing "tani" turns a word into a slur by some magic but that's language for you.
Even nigg*r is just an anglicisation of black from one of the Romance languages (negro, noire, nero).

It's obvious when a racial slur is bound up in dehumanisation - when the word used is synonymous with savagery, barbarism, disease, vermin and filth.

When it's just an innocuous word taken though, it just goes to show that any word can be a slur. Context and the underlying meaning being the important part and not the word itself.

Nothing strange about it. Let me give you context, I'm married to a Japanese - I have plenty of Japanes family and friends. There's nothing innocuous when someone uses those word at your loved ones or at you. Believe me.

RoboRat

All German soldiers. Not just the Nazi ones. And not just those who fought in WWII. The term was first recorded in a British periodical in 1918.

But its the Nazi connection they are ashamed of... actually :-)

My ex was German and I used to call her Kraut (and put saurkrat on everything) until she lost the plot.

Gbear

old hippy wrote: »

Nothing strange about it. Let me give you context, I'm married to a Japanese - I have plenty of Japanes family and friends. There's nothing innocuous when someone uses those word at your loved ones or at you. Believe me.

The word itself is inoccuous though.

At some point in the far flung future there could be some terrible slur - spoon or toaster or something.
People would be aghast upon hearing it and would never use it in polite company. It'd still just be the word spoon though.

That's the thing with words. Fundamentally they're just a bunch of meaningless mouth noises. What's strange is the transition that series of noises can go through - either the word itself or an equally innocuous fragment of it - from meaningless, to trivial, to a hideous slur.

And if someone or a small group of people had decided to use some other word instead we'd have a different slur and what are considered slurs could be sitting on the shelf of our vocabulary, next to "goat" and "turntable" and not causing much bother to anyone at all.

DebDynamite

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

It's like Jap. In America it's considered a pretty big slur. Here, not so much

I remember the Jackass crew were on the Late Late Show. They were taking about being in Japan or something and Pat Kenny asks (paraphrasing) "what did the Japs make of it all?" Even the Jackass lads looked embarrased! I think they asked can you even say that on TV :pac:

Sir Gallagher

Gbear wrote: »

I always find it strange when seemingly benign words that are merely abbreviations of ordinary descriptive adjectives for nationality are turned into slurs.

Like Nipps for the Japanese (Nippon just meaning Japan).
Or pakis, obviously.

You wouldn't think that just removing "tani" turns a word into a slur by some magic but that's language for you.
Even nigg*r is just an anglicisation of black from one of the Romance languages (negro, noire, nero).

It's obvious when a racial slur is bound up in dehumanisation - when the word used is synonymous with savagery, barbarism, disease, vermin and filth.

When it's just an innocuous word taken though, it just goes to show that any word can be a slur. Context and the underlying meaning being the important part and not the word itself.

Great post, almost as thoughtful and considered as this gem...

Mint Aero wrote: »

Yeah right, tell em get over it. Every country gets shortened. Big deal.

cletus van damme

FTA69 wrote: »

No. You don't have a right to decide what you call a certain ethnic group, you especially don't have a right to use a term that they overwhelmingly find discriminatory and abusive.

A group has the right to decide what they themselves find offensive and that's that. You aren't being censored or oppressed because people object to you calling them by names they don't like.

really?
Do you know pakistiani people? Do you know they find it offensive?
What happens if some of them find it offense but others don't.
What am I to do? or what is anybody to do?

I don't use the term myself - the only pakistani people I know run an indian I know (the frauds!!) and enjoy and I'm not familiar enough to be makings small talk.

Remove oneself from this debate and take another angle - we all know some women so I'm on solid ground for this - unlike the current argument where everybody will claim to have loads of pakistani friends.

I can use terms that some women find offensive but other women won't.
My females friends will laugh at some ramblings of mine about women but I'll wager ivana bacik would blow a gasket.
Who is right?

i'm being genuine here - I'd just like to know .

Another example would be the Thai's call us farang - all white people are farang.
It's a corruption of the word "French" (i've been told) who colonised siam in the day.
Now I don't give a hoot about being called farang (and it is a racist term) but i'm sure others do. Is it wrong for the user of such a term?

you get the point.
I just want to know , why?

Daveysil15

I would certainly never say it to a person's face or use it in a formal conversation. Best to just say Pakistani to be on the safe side.

Knob Longman

Pak I Stan, Land of the pure...What a joke...

Nodin

Knob Longman wrote: »

Pak I Stan, Land of the pure...What a joke...

...why?

Irish Guitarist

Gbear wrote: »

The word itself is inoccuous though.

At some point in the far flung future there could be some terrible slur - spoon or toaster or something.
People would be aghast upon hearing it and would never use it in polite company. It'd still just be the word spoon though.

That's the thing with words. Fundamentally they're just a bunch of meaningless mouth noises. What's strange is the transition that series of noises can go through - either the word itself or an equally innocuous fragment of it - from meaningless, to trivial, to a hideous slur.

And if someone or a small group of people had decided to use some other word instead we'd have a different slur and what are considered slurs could be sitting on the shelf of our vocabulary, next to "goat" and "turntable" and not causing much bother to anyone at all.

If you told someone years ago that you were going to look for a short faggot to burn they wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

endacl

Knob Longman wrote: »

Pak I Stan, Land of the pure...What a joke...

Ireland, land of saints and scholars.

Back atcha.

Fratton Fred

cletus van damme wrote: »

really?
Do you know pakistiani people? Do you know they find it offensive?
What happens if some of them find it offense but others don't.
What am I to do? or what is anybody to do?

I don't use the term myself - the only pakistani people I know run an indian I know (the frauds!!) and enjoy and I'm not familiar enough to be makings small talk.

Remove oneself from this debate and take another angle - we all know some women so I'm on solid ground for this - unlike the current argument where everybody will claim to have loads of pakistani friends.

I can use terms that some women find offensive but other women won't.
My females friends will laugh at some ramblings of mine about women but I'll wager ivana bacik would blow a gasket.
Who is right?

i'm being genuine here - I'd just like to know .

Another example would be the Thai's call us farang - all white people are farang.
It's a corruption of the word "French" (i've been told) who colonised siam in the day.
Now I don't give a hoot about being called farang (and it is a racist term) but i'm sure others do. Is it wrong for the user of such a term?

you get the point.
I just want to know , why?

I've known lots of Pakistanis over the years and have not met one who would not be offended by the term.

Maybe some aren't, I honestly don't know, but enough are to make me not use the word.

Mint Aero

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Great post, almost as thoughtful and considered as this gem...

Great post Gallagher, any point to make? Nah didn't think so.

M.Byrne

I know a Pakistani guy and I have had chats about this. He doesn't see it as racist seeing as he is Pakistani but the thing is its used as a racial slur towards people who are dark skinned from asia to stereotype them so I would say its best not to use it! If you know a Pakistani person and your referring to where they are from its not a lot of effort to say Pakistani instead of paki.

M.Byrne

I know a Pakistani guy and I have had chats about this. He doesn't see it as racist seeing as he is Pakistani but the thing is its used as a racial slur towards people who are dark skinned from asia to stereotype them so I would say its best not to use it! If you know a Pakistani person and your referring to where they are from its not a lot of effort to say Pakistani instead of paki.

M.Byrne

I know a Pakistani guy and I have had chats about this. He doesn't see it as racist seeing as he is Pakistani but the thing is its used as a racial slur towards people who are dark skinned from asia to stereotype them so I would say its best not to use it! If you know a Pakistani person and your referring to where they are from its not a lot of effort to say Pakistani instead of paki.

M.Byrne

I know a Pakistani guy and I have had chats about this. He doesn't see it as racist seeing as he is Pakistani but the thing is its used as a racial slur towards people who are dark skinned from asia to stereotype them so I would say its best not to use it! If you know a Pakistani person and your referring to where they are from its not a lot of effort to say Pakistani instead of paki.

WilyCoyote

M.Byrne! Have you got RSI or just a sticky finger?

Gbear

WilyCoyote wrote: »

M.Byrne! Have you got RSI or just a sticky finger?

His keyboard attacked him. He had to fend it off.

Davelarson

old hippy wrote: »

Trust me, we've heard it at home and here in London, it's not appreciated

Its funny. I know a few Chinese who hate the japs and make no bones about saying it. But who are we to judge them?

Which raises the question; is it ok to hate a race if they committed atrocities against your people?

Vision of Disorder

Gbear wrote: »

His keyboard attacked him. He had to fend it off.

Damn Keybos are all the same!

Xeyn

Davelarson wrote: »

Its funny. I know a few Chinese who hate the japs and make no bones about saying it. But who are we to judge them?

Which raises the question; is it ok to hate a race if they committed atrocities against your people?

No. Because its still racist. Attributing negative attributes to an entire nation/race/religion is racist/bigotry, end of. It doesnt matter what 1, 2 or 10 000 people did.

Nodin

Davelarson wrote: »

Its funny. I know a few Chinese who hate the japs and make no bones about saying it. But who are we to judge them?

Which raises the question; is it ok to hate a race if they committed atrocities against your people?

No, because all of them didn't do it.

poundapunnet

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When a term is used 99% of the time as a racial slur, it loses any other meaning it may have had.

This definitely applies in this case.

The word "Nigerian" in an Irish accent sounds racist to me.

FTA69 wrote: »

So now we need to explain why the term "Paki" is offensive? Jesus.

What's wrong with asking a question? There are no stupid questions, just stupid condescending unproductive answers.

mud_guard

the slur covers any nationality from the south asia area

Pakistan
india
Bangladesh
sri lanka

its derogatory in every sense

LordSutch

What about Sambo?

Davelarson

Xeyn wrote: »

No. Because its still racist. Attributing negative attributes to an entire nation/race/religion is racist/bigotry, end of. It doesnt matter what 1, 2 or 10 000 people did.

Its understandable though in the case of the Chinese and the Jews. I sure there were plenty of Allied servicemen and their families who had a burning hatred of the Japanese too and for good reason. I mean I don't feel any sympathy for the Japanese or the Germans. They got what they deserved.