Using the term Paki

Tzardine

First off it is not my intention to be insulting, and I am not trying to offend but I have a genuine question. I am not trolling or trying to flame.

If mods feel that the question is out of order then please remove.

My question is why is the term Paki considered a racial slur. I always thought that it was simply a short way of saying Pakistani in the same way as if you are from these places you would be a ..

Dublin - Dub
Austrialian - Aussie
Britian - Brit
Scotland - Scot

I can understand that if it was said in the wrong tone ( eg You f****ng P**I) then it would sounds horrible but what if it was something like saying , "That P**i lad that works in the bank is sound ". Is that really racist ?

Can perhaps anybody from Pakistan explain ?

gramar

That Bonner fella that played for Ireland never had a problem with it.

Fratton Fred

Strituck wrote: »

First off it is not my intention to be insulting, and I am not trying to offend but I have a genuine question. I am not trolling or trying to flame.

If mods feel that the question is out of order then please remove.

My question is why is the term Paki considered a racial slur. I always thought that it was simply a short way of saying Pakistani in the same way as if you are from these places you would be a ..

Dublin - Dub
Austrialian - Aussie
Britian - Brit
Scotland - Scot

I can understand that if it was said in the wrong tone ( eg You f****ng P**I) then it would sounds horrible but what if it was something like saying , "That P**i lad that works in the bank is sound ". Is that really racist ?

Can perhaps anybody from Pakistan explain ?

When a term is used 99% of the time as a racial slur, it loses any other meaning it may have had.

This definitely applies in this case.

tim3000

I wouldn't say it is but it depends on context. Better err on the side of caution. A Polish person is a Pole, which I wouldn't class as an insult either. However is it not "Pakistani" for a person from there? Paki might then be a be an insult.

Bipolar Joe

I think we should take it back.

General General

Try boards.pk?

Tombi!

What Fratton said. It's been used as a slur for too long for it too much else.
Like the word homosexual being used as a noun was used in a negative meaning towards gay people.
So you can use it as an adjective but not a noun.

Paki is just been used as a slur for too long so it's a slur.

FreshKnickers

I do sometimes nickname 'Spaniard' to 'spanner'. They seem to like it. The ones I speak to anyway, can't speak for the whole country.

MonkieSocks

Teacher says to Johnny "where's Pakistan?".











Johnny says, "out in the playground with Pakisteve."

Riskymove

I think you are right about where the term originates..however...its use evolved into pretty much always being used as a derogatory term in Britain and by extension to here

its use is also generally used in an ignorant way to label anyone who appears to be from that part of the world..not just people from Pakistan

it is effectively seen as the equivalent to the N word...(which also evolved from a general descriptive term)

MadsL

Consider...

He's a Dub.

He's a fucking Dub.

He's a Brit.

He's a fucking Brit.

He's a Scot.

He's a fucking Scot.

He's an Aussie.

He's a fucking Aussie.

I've rarely heard anyone use Paki without it being fucking Paki.

Talib Fiasco

Same thing as calling someone a Jew.

cali_eire

Obviously, in itself it would seem quite innocent without context but it's all about context and how it's been used (for the most part) in the last 50 something years that gives it an unsavory quality.

Tzardine

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Same thing as calling someone a Jew.

But Jewish people call themselves Jews all the time.

keithclancy

Walk into a pub in West Cork and shout "Oh hai Boggers!" in a thick D4 Accent.

They take this as a warm and friendly way of greeting in those parts.

beazee

What about the Poles?

FreshKnickers

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Same thing as calling someone a Jew.

Larry David is a Jew.

Is that not allowed? Should it be:

Larry David is Jewish.

Bipolar Joe

Woah, I dunno if the humour here is abstract or if people are stupid.

iDave

Well if jokes about space monkeys are now racist well then yeah I can see how Paki will be construed as racism. Pretty much any word/phrase other than the correct official word for the nationality/race is now racist. Unless your white or European. Then frog/kraut/paddy/prod etc are acceptable.

Hank Scorpio

Strituck wrote: »

But Jewish people call themselves Jews all the time.

And black people call themselves n*****s all the time

Tzardine

nuxxx wrote: »

And black people call themselves n*****s all the time

But they call themselves N***A , the racist term is N***ER

Dear lord look what I have started.

johnny-grunge

I think part of the problem is that many people use the term to describe anyone that looks remotely like they're from Pakistan. There's well over a billion people in South Asia and only approximately 200million of them are from Pakistan.

Riskymove

iDave wrote: »

Unless your white or European. Then frog/kraut/paddy/prod etc are acceptable.

nonsense...they are not acceptable either

go into a bar in France and call them all frogs

go to a bar in the Shankill Road and call them all Prods

see what happens

theblaqueguy

Strituck wrote: »

But they call themselves N***A , the racist term is N***ER

Dear lord look what I have started.

Hey please stop talking about me and my people!

FTA69

So now we need to explain why the term "Paki" is offensive? Jesus.

Irish Guitarist

Someone from Pakistan would be called Pakistani. I've never in my life heard the word paki used in a manner that wasn't meant as a racial slur. People that used the word use it to describe anyone from South Asia and not just Pakistan.

Tombi!

If we're gonna get down the black people can say X then let me end it fast: most black people won't say it.
Most black people actually look down on the black people that say it 24/7.

FreshKnickers

Riskymove wrote: »

go to a bar in the Shankill Road and call them all Prods

It'd probably be okay if the person saying it was also a Protestant.

Tzardine

FTA69 wrote: »

So now we need to explain why the term "Paki" is offensive? Jesus.

Yes that was what I was looking for alright.

Riskymove

FreshKnickers wrote: »

It'd probably be okay if the person saying it was also a Protestant.

obviously a very different situation

similar to our general use of the term Paddy vs the use of it by others abroad

iDave

Riskymove wrote: »

nonsense...they are not acceptable either

go into a bar in France and call them all frogs

go to a bar in the Shankill Road and call them all Prods

see what happens

Perhaps but if a politician here used one of those phrases or celebrity would their careers be in jeopardy in the same way as saying the N word or Paki.
Example, Thierry Henrys hand ball was nicknamed the Hand of Frog in the media. A blatant derogatory term for French people was casually thrown about by everyone. Would that happen for a non-white/European term?

Karl Stein

Brown lads from out foreign.

cletus van damme

FTA69 wrote: »

So now we need to explain why the term "Paki" is offensive? Jesus.

why should we (unenlightened) just accept a view without an explanation?

Are we wrong to seek an explanation or is racism such a sacred cow that we accept whatever "they" ( who are they anyway??" ) decree?

keithclancy

Riskymove wrote: »

obviously a very different situation

similar to our general use of the term Paddy vs the use of it by others abroad

The only time its cool to use "Paddy" is when his name is Pat/Patrick/Paddy

Tombi!

cletus van damme wrote: »

why should we (unenlightened) just accept a view without an explanation?

Are we wrong to seek an explanation or is racism such a sacred cow that we accept whatever "they" ( who are they anyway??" ) decree?

It's not that hard to understand.
For years in the UK and Ireland it's been the same as calling a black fella golliwog or blackie, it's offensive since it's been used as an insult for so long.

It's like Jap. In America it's considered a pretty big slur. Here, not so much

Riskymove

iDave wrote: »

Perhaps but if a politician here used one of those phrases or celebrity would their careers be in jeopardy in the same way as saying the N word or Paki

.

its true that different words have a different level of sensitivity and PC about them

that does not make some of them acceptable

Example, Thierry Henrys hand ball was nicknamed the Hand of Frog in the media. A blatant derogatory term for French people was casually thrown about by everyone. Would that happen for a non-white/European term?

If you look up British media treatment of Maradona in 1986 you'll see plenty similar

Riskymove

keithclancy wrote: »

The only time its cool to use "Paddy" is when his name is Pat/Patrick/Paddy

I encounter its use by Irish people to describe themselves all the time (even the ones not called Paddy)

Unfortunately the usage by the Brits has made it into a slur. Sure Packie is addressed as "Pat Bonner" on Sky.

endacl

Pakistan means 'land of the Pak people'. As Afghanistan is the 'land of the Afghan people', Kurdistan is the 'land of the Kurds', etc.

'Paki' is just getting it wrong. It would be more proper to use the term 'Pak', but only if you're sure their heritage is Pak. If it's not but they are citizens of Pakistan, then 'Pakistani' would be correct.

The fact is though, that the term 'paki' is not used to accurately and neutrally identify nationality. The user of the term will invariably use the term as a shorthand for 'brown-skinned and inferior to me'. That's why it's offensive. 'Aussie' is a bit of a red herring. The term originated with Australians, who are widely recognized as world leaders in abbreviation. And tends to be used affectionately. 'Scot' is a proper noun and is entirely neutral. 'Jock' would be a different story. Which would Al Murray use when doing the excellent pub landlord, and why? 'Brit' is historically a loaded phrase, especially on *ahem* 'this island' (another loaded phrase...).

A bit rambling, but that's why it's not ok. If I use the term 'paki', I use it in the knowledge of the context in which it originated. Which is also how it's heard. Diminutive proper nouns are not direct analogues of each other when applied to nationalities.

iDave

Riskymove wrote: »

.

its true that different words have a different level of sensitivity and PC about them

that does not make some of them acceptable



If you look up British media treatment of Maradona in 1986 you'll see plenty similar

Correct which begs the question, how can such an inconsistent approach be acceptable. One rule for some and another for others. Doesn't seem right to me.

FTA69

cletus van damme wrote: »

why should we (unenlightened) just accept a view without an explanation?

Are we wrong to seek an explanation or is racism such a sacred cow that we accept whatever "they" ( who are they anyway??" ) decree?

No. You don't have a right to decide what you call a certain ethnic group, you especially don't have a right to use a term that they overwhelmingly find discriminatory and abusive.

A group has the right to decide what they themselves find offensive and that's that. You aren't being censored or oppressed because people object to you calling them by names they don't like.

endacl

Riskymove wrote: »

I encounter its use by Irish people to describe themselves all the time (even the ones not called Paddy)

This is a common phenomenon. The reclaiming of a slur. Disarming the attacker if you like. I'm sure y'all can think of other examples.

theblaqueguy

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

If we're gonna get down the black people can say X then let me end it fast: most black people won't say it.
Most black people actually look down on the black people that say it 24/7.

Niggas there you go I said it!

B.A._Baracus

Did you hear about the Pakistani man who didnt like to be called 'Paki'?

He said it was disrespectful and racist to call him that word. As he turned around to walk away, a black man accidently bumped into him... moments later he stopped and said "I bet that N****r was trying to rob me"


This is sadly the world we live in.

endacl

theblaqueguy wrote: »

**** there you go I said it!

Oh....... 'nAggers'........

Riskymove

iDave wrote: »

Correct which begs the question, how can such an inconsistent approach be acceptable. One rule for some and another for others. Doesn't seem right to me.

we all know PC has led to situations like this, its simply the way media and human nature is here these days

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

No. You don't have a right to decide what you call a certain ethnic group, you especially don't have a right to use a term that they overwhelmingly find discriminatory and abusive.
.

So are we not allowed to say gypsy anymore

Riskymove

bluewolf wrote: »

So are we not allowed to say gypsy anymore

its certainly not PC

Irish Guitarist

I remember Eastenders in the eighties and it's amazing how the word paki was used. In every episode Den Watts or Dot Cotton would be complaining about the pakis in the corner shop.

The makers of Eastenders weren't being racist but they were showing the way British people talked at the time.

I also remember an episode where Dot Cotton went to one of the market stalls and asked for 'nigger brown' wool.

endacl

bluewolf wrote: »

So are we not allowed to say gypsy anymore

We're allowed to say anything we like! No issue there. Free country n'all dat.

Tzardine

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I remember Eastenders in the eighties and it's amazing how the word paki was used. In every episode Den Watts or Dot Cotton would be complaining about the pakis in the corner shop.

The makers of Eastenders weren't being racist but they were showing the way British people talked at the time.

I also remember an episode where Dot Cotton went to one of the market stalls and asked for 'nigger brown' wool.

Jesus , Dot the racist lol.

But its true, I do remember when using P**i was not insulting or racist.