Entitlement Culture killing the will to work in Ireland

Idbatterim

There are no black and white categories, there's no margin that has poor on one side and not poor on the other. I do not have any sympathy for those (and we all know them) who are essentially generations of welfare families.

That was my point, exactly like you say, there are no black and white categories! My question is, why are lifers still being facilitated, just have them on virtually no cash after a certain period, preferably they wouldnt get a cent in cash and it would be vouchers, but I'm not sure of the practicalities of that...

OldNotWIse

Idbatterim wrote: »

That was my point, exactly like you say, there are no black and white categories! My question is, why are lifers still being facilitated, just have them on virtually no cash after a certain period, preferably they wouldnt get a cent in cash and it would be vouchers, but I'm not sure of the practicalities of that...

King crisps and Johnny Blue vouchers?:D

Proustian

It's not the entitlement culture, but the widespread tolerance of the culture which has, and is, bleeding the Irish taxpayers dry.

I once heard a show on Irish radio where a woman was complaining that she had three children and "they'll only give me a two bedroom house". No one on the show thought to question why she had decided to have three children when she appeared to have no means to support them, or or house them. The assumption throughout was that anyone can have as many children as they like, and then it's up to the rest of the taxpayers to pay for their house (with as many bedrooms as they desire), and to pay them cash every week for their living expenses, and all their household bills.

Irish people seem to tolerate this attitude, which is why the attitude exists and appears to flourish.

OldNotWIse

Proustian wrote: »

It's not the entitlement culture, but the widespread tolerance of the culture which has, and is, bleeding the Irish taxpayers dry.

I once heard a show on Irish radio where a woman was complaining that she had three children and "they'll only give me a two bedroom house". No one on the show thought to question why she had decided to have three children when she appeared to have no means to support them, or or house them. The assumption throughout was that anyone can have as many children as they like, and then it's up to the rest of the taxpayers to pay for their house (with as many bedrooms as they desire), and to pay them cash every week for their living expenses, and all their household bills.

Irish people seem to tolerate this attitude, which is why the attitude exists and appears to flourish.

We dont really have any choice. What are we supposed to do? Refuse to pay tax? Enda tends to rape my salary before I get it...

Proustian

OldNotWIse wrote: »

We dont really have any choice. What are we supposed to do? Refuse to pay tax? Enda tends to rape my salary before I get it...

Borrowing today is taxation tomorrow. All those borrowings which Ireland has incurred have to be paid back, plus interest. So just to pay the interest on the money it borrows today, the Irish government had to rake in more in taxes tomorrow.

It’s not Enda raping your salary, it’s all those people who voted for governments in the last 50 years which borrowed truly enormous amounts of cash to bribe the electorate to vote for them again.

It’s probably easier to try to blame the PM, but in reality he had little choice. Incidentally, this year the Irish government plans to borrow another €12bn, so the problem continues, with no indication that anything has changed, so its likely the problem is endemic, and not solvable, in Ireland.

The attitude towards the benefit culture, discussed above, is another symptom. In many places you can’t even discuss it without drawing gasps of horror from those who tolerate and encourage it, and this year that attitude is responsible, I think, for a social welfare bill of €19bn to the Irish people, and accounts for around 40% of government spending.

Much of it is unfunded pensions, where the promises of yesterday ( so easy to make when you haven’t got to pay for them) now have to be paid for, and Social Welfare, paying for the two bedroom house and giving the mother who was so scornful that “they’ll only give me a two bedroom house” and encouraging a system of payments which, effectively, prevents many helping themselves and who become long term dependants on the rest of us supporting them.

These are all decisions the Irish people have made in the sorts of governments they have elected, and there seems little sign that the Irish people will not continue to vote for governments which ensure the countries pauperisation into the future.

Paulzx

Proustian wrote: »

These are all decisions the Irish people have made in the sorts of governments they have elected, and there seems little sign that the Irish people will not continue to vote for governments which ensure the countries pauperisation into the future.

To be fair I don't think there are any political parties that have a public policy position that long term multi generational welfare claiming will be tackled and phased out. If a voter wishes to cast his vote for a candidate that is willing to tackle the handout culture he'll have to look long and far to find one.

These issues should have been tackled during the "boom". We were bringing thousands of people in from other countries to fill jobs here yet had an unemployment rate of around 4%. Whilst some of this was undoubtably made up of genuine cases there was absolutely no excuse to pay an 18-19 year old able bodied school leaver a dole payment when they could have walked into a job. The fact the job might be a so called menial job is irrellevant. Tough ****!!. If you don't want to do a low paid job get yourself educated or trained. Dole should not be an option in this case.

Idbatterim

It’s probably easier to try to blame the PM, but in reality he had little choice. Incidentally, this year the Irish government plans to borrow another €12bn, so the problem continues, with no indication that anything has changed, so its likely the problem is endemic, and not solvable, in Ireland.

Exactly this, like I said a few posts back, its a pity that instead of teetering at edge of the cliff around 2010, we didnt fall in. There would have had to be dramatic reform and changes. We just about managed to scrape by, there is no way I see reform of any type. I see FG freezing stuff and dont think that they will buy off some of the usual suspects in the forthcoming election, if they have enough support to know they will be the largest party without having to do this, it means they have power for several more years where they can just freeze it and let inflation devalue it (before another election). At this stage, I dont think there will be any more cuts where some of us would like to see them, some would be to close to the bone and too close to the election...

creedp

Idbatterim wrote: »

Exactly this, like I said a few posts back, its a pity that instead of teetering at edge of the cliff around 2010, we didnt fall in. There would have had to be dramatic reform and changes. We just about managed to scrape by, there is no way I see reform of any type. I see FG freezing stuff and dont think that they will buy off some of the usual suspects in the forthcoming election, if they have enough support to know they will be the largest party without having to do this, it means they have power for several more years where they can just freeze it and let inflation devalue it (before another election). At this stage, I dont think there will be any more cuts where some of us would like to see them, some would be to close to the bone and too close to the election...

I thought it was Labour's fault that FG is incapable of reform ..

Idbatterim

I thought it was Labour's fault that FG is incapable of reform ..

Yeah I do reckon that is quite a large part of it, Labour given how they have been decimated according to opinion polls, will fight and probably succeed in having any cuts they deem to be unpopular for them bypassed or massively scaled back, look at budget 2013, FG capitulated to their calls for a much reduced budget cuts, as a gesture of acknowledgement of the battering, mainly they have taken, despite being in bed with FG. But even without Labour, would FG sort it out, I dont know. Certainly no other existing party will that's a guarantee.

The attitude towards the benefit culture, discussed above, is another symptom. In many places you can’t even discuss it without drawing gasps of horror from those who tolerate and encourage it, and this year that attitude is responsible, I think, for a social welfare bill of €19bn to the Irish people, and accounts for around 40% of government spending.

The thing is though, for the leeches, who do they have support from? working people, pensioners. students? All you would have to do, is get the figures, and say this is whats being wasted, it could go on xyz, i.e. "insert far more worthy causes here", buy off other groups with it for all I care, morally though, the long term spongers and wasters are the last people I want getting it, they are the least deserving, hell Id give it to Kenny and Co before them if it were my choice!

OldNotWIse

Proustian wrote: »

Borrowing today is taxation tomorrow. All those borrowings which Ireland has incurred have to be paid back, plus interest. So just to pay the interest on the money it borrows today, the Irish government had to rake in more in taxes tomorrow.

It’s not Enda raping your salary, it’s all those people who voted for governments in the last 50 years which borrowed truly enormous amounts of cash to bribe the electorate to vote for them again.

It’s probably easier to try to blame the PM, but in reality he had little choice. Incidentally, this year the Irish government plans to borrow another €12bn, so the problem continues, with no indication that anything has changed, so its likely the problem is endemic, and not solvable, in Ireland.

The attitude towards the benefit culture, discussed above, is another symptom. In many places you can’t even discuss it without drawing gasps of horror from those who tolerate and encourage it, and this year that attitude is responsible, I think, for a social welfare bill of €19bn to the Irish people, and accounts for around 40% of government spending.

Much of it is unfunded pensions, where the promises of yesterday ( so easy to make when you haven’t got to pay for them) now have to be paid for, and Social Welfare, paying for the two bedroom house and giving the mother who was so scornful that “they’ll only give me a two bedroom house” and encouraging a system of payments which, effectively, prevents many helping themselves and who become long term dependants on the rest of us supporting them.

These are all decisions the Irish people have made in the sorts of governments they have elected, and there seems little sign that the Irish people will not continue to vote for governments which ensure the countries pauperisation into the future.

It's always been a case of best of a bad lot. I never voted FF or FG. Who do you suggest we vote for?

OldNotWIse

Paulzx wrote: »

To be fair I don't think there are any political parties that have a public policy position that long term multi generational welfare claiming will be tackled and phased out. If a voter wishes to cast his vote for a candidate that is willing to tackle the handout culture he'll have to look long and far to find one.

These issues should have been tackled during the "boom". We were bringing thousands of people in from other countries to fill jobs here yet had an unemployment rate of around 4%. Whilst some of this was undoubtably made up of genuine cases there was absolutely no excuse to pay an 18-19 year old able bodied school leaver a dole payment when they could have walked into a job. The fact the job might be a so called menial job is irrellevant. Tough ****!!. If you don't want to do a low paid job get yourself educated or trained. Dole should not be an option in this case.

I agree with this. The people who complain about "foreigners taking our jobs" are the very ones who wouldnt "lower" themselves to these positions during the boom.

Proustian

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's always been a case of best of a bad lot. I never voted FF or FG. Who do you suggest we vote for?

It's an interesting point as to who we should vote for. In recent decades FF became known as the party which was most corrupt, with one wag even suggesting that Beaumont Hospital should be renamed the "Charles J Haughey memorial hospital" as it was rumored he made staggering amounts of cash from the contracts awarded for this publically funded project.

Currently, none of the political parties have any suggestions, ideas or policies which are devoted to taking Ireland from where she is (bankrupt) to a position where the country is once again on a sound financial footing. The art of politics these days is to hang on to your seat at any cost, even if it means the country remains in bankruptcy. Politicians with principle are sneered at by the career politicians, while talent is rewarded by being ostracized and political cunning rewarded by ministerial office.

We are saddled with a rotten political class who, while publically pretending to oppose each other, in private all agree on the big issues, and conspire to do little or nothing.
Their main ambition seems to be to end up on a pension of hundreds of thousands of Euros, index linked and paid for by the rest of us, after a career where their main achievement is the continuation of a rotten political system which does little for the people of Ireland and much for the politicians.

Idbatterim

It's an interesting point as to who we should vote for.

As things stand FG appear to me, to be by far and away the best of a bad lot... They seem to be the least populist. Take a read of the below, I must have missed a few years, but we are obviously back in 2007 :rolleyes:

FIONNAN SHEAHAN, GROUP POLITICAL EDITOR – 06 FEBRUARY 2014

Widespread wage hikes will threaten job creation unless there is a matching rise in the productivity of workers, the Government is set to warn.

Unions are pushing for pay rises this year, but the Coalition will caution against the damage to the country's competitiveness from increases in wages for doing the same amount of work.

The Cabinet will hold a special meeting this morning on jobs and reducing unemployment. Ministers will discuss policies to be included in this year's jobs plan.

Amid pressure for wage increases, the Coalition still feels the way to increase disposable income is by reducing the tax burden.

There is a belief wage hikes would make it less attractive for domestic employers to take on additional staff and bring in foreign investment.

"A period of further adjustment is necessary to get the economy back to competitiveness," said one Government source.

"Wage increases mean changes to the way we work and do business, as opposed to the old blanket set of wage increases.

"You have to try to avoid the loss of competitiveness that occurred with economic recovery in the past.

"We need to make sure we don't price the 300,000 looking for work out of the labour market.

"That doesn't mean the Government isn't concerned to address the squeeze of living standards."

The Action Plan for Jobs 2014 will focus on a number of areas:

* Providing apprenticeships and trainee places in the manufacturing sector.

* Targeting emerging markets, particularly in Asia.

* Opening up a series of new Local Enterprise Offices across the country.

* Making the country more competitive to create jobs.

The draft of the plan will include a reminder that the economy's need to be competitive is not yet complete.

The plan will say there needs to be a continued focus on the cost base, prices and wage levels.

The unit labour costs, which refers to wages and productivity, still has to be brought down, the Government believes.

FAMILIES

But the clamour for wage hikes is growing with the country's largest trade union, SIPTU, engaging in what it described as a major push for pay increases across the private sector.

The Government has indicated it will seek to reduce the tax burden for workers, particularly middle-income families.

Price levels in Ireland are still 14pc above the eurozone average, with unit labour costs rising for the first time since the recession hit six years ago.

Also in the plan, the external trade strategy will be updated with IDA and Enterprise Ireland focusing on new markets to push aggressively into, particularly, Asian countries.

The 34 City and County Enterprise Boards are being closed to be replaced by Local Enterprise Offices (LEOs).

The legislation setting up the LEOs will kick in on March 1 with the new offices to open in April.

A review of the Action Plan for Jobs 2013 will be discussed at the ministers' meeting today and they will also talk through policies for inclusion in this year's plan.

Irish Independent

jmayo

Paulzx wrote: »

To be fair I don't think there are any political parties that have a public policy position that long term multi generational welfare claiming will be tackled and phased out. If a voter wishes to cast his vote for a candidate that is willing to tackle the handout culture he'll have to look long and far to find one.

These issues should have been tackled during the "boom". We were bringing thousands of people in from other countries to fill jobs here yet had an unemployment rate of around 4%. Whilst some of this was undoubtably made up of genuine cases there was absolutely no excuse to pay an 18-19 year old able bodied school leaver a dole payment when they could have walked into a job. The fact the job might be a so called menial job is irrellevant. Tough ****!!. If you don't want to do a low paid job get yourself educated or trained. Dole should not be an option in this case.

During the height of our boom/bubble (i.e. mid 2000s) there was roughly somewhere between 80,000 to 90,000 unemployed.
Now some one may be able to correct me on this, but does our CSO figures only include those looking for work and capable of work ?
In other words it doesn't include those unable to work due to illness.
Then if we factor in those choosing to stay at home as carers, which should be small enough in the grand scheme of things, we still end up with a big chunk of people not working.
And this was a time when we had lots of jobs available.

Now during boom/bubble there was always need for certain trained and qualified workers that we just didn't have, but how come we had to get so many immigrants to act as bar staff, shop assistants, cleaners, manual labourers, drivers, etc.

I actually haven't come across any Irish industrial cleaning staff in the last decade.
I have come across Central & Eastern Europeans, Asians, South Americans woking in those jobs.

I think a fair few Irish got the mindset that certain jobs were beneath them and thanks to things like bertie's epiphany (i.e. another new way to buy votes) at his fianna fail think tank in Inchydoney, welfare was increased at a time when it should have been the opposite.

Paulzx

jmayo wrote: »

I think a fair few Irish got the mindset that certain jobs were beneath them .

I think some feel any work is below them

Icepick

Proustian wrote: »

It's an interesting point as to who we should vote for. In recent decades FF became known as the party which was most corrupt, with one wag even suggesting that Beaumont Hospital should be renamed the "Charles J Haughey memorial hospital" as it was rumored he made staggering amounts of cash from the contracts awarded for this publically funded project.

Currently, none of the political parties have any suggestions, ideas or policies which are devoted to taking Ireland from where she is (bankrupt) to a position where the country is once again on a sound financial footing. The art of politics these days is to hang on to your seat at any cost, even if it means the country remains in bankruptcy. Politicians with principle are sneered at by the career politicians, while talent is rewarded by being ostracized and political cunning rewarded by ministerial office.

We are saddled with a rotten political class who, while publically pretending to oppose each other, in private all agree on the big issues, and conspire to do little or nothing.
Their main ambition seems to be to end up on a pension of hundreds of thousands of Euros, index linked and paid for by the rest of us, after a career where their main achievement is the continuation of a rotten political system which does little for the people of Ireland and much for the politicians.

Actually the problem is how much they do for the half of the population that's on welfare.

golfwallah

Proustian wrote: »

It's an interesting point as to who we should vote for. In recent decades FF became known as the party which was most corrupt, with one wag even suggesting that Beaumont Hospital should be renamed the "Charles J Haughey memorial hospital" as it was rumored he made staggering amounts of cash from the contracts awarded for this publically funded project.

In fairness about Irish politics, I would think that desire for popularity, incompetence and poor leadership are more the problem than corruption. Any impartial assessment of performance during the last administration would have to conclude that the FF / Greens coalition government got us into the present financial mess, ably cheered on by the current FG / Labour coalition government, then in opposition. They were all to blame, IMO.

Despite all the pre-election hoo-hah about openness, transparency, accountability, value for money, Dail reform, etc., there has been little change since the last government. While there has been a lot of us v them “you lot, FF got us into this mess” accusation, fundamental change in the way we do politics in Ireland has not happened. We’re still in “pass the parcel” mode, waiting for the next international crisis that can be blamed on whoever happens to be in power. Last time the uncontrollable external event was the availability of cheap credit and an internal unwillingness to rock the boat about over lending on property, as long as the books could be balanced with stamp duty income. What will it be next time?

When elections come, we can only choose from the choice set before us – the alternatives are to get involved in selection of candidates or go forward yourself – but very few have the patience or stomach for that.

Currently, none of the political parties have any suggestions, ideas or policies which are devoted to taking Ireland from where she is (bankrupt) to a position where the country is once again on a sound financial footing. The art of politics these days is to hang on to your seat at any cost, even if it means the country remains in bankruptcy. Politicians with principle are sneered at by the career politicians, while talent is rewarded by being ostracized and political cunning rewarded by ministerial office.

Quite – we’re muddling through and those in power are looking after their own – business as usual has resumed. But, I guess a sense of perspective is required – we don’t have rioting in the streets, civil war, etc., and the politicians are safely locked away in Leinster House for some of the time, at least.

We are saddled with a rotten political class who, while publically pretending to oppose each other, in private all agree on the big issues, and conspire to do little or nothing.
Their main ambition seems to be to end up on a pension of hundreds of thousands of Euros, index linked and paid for by the rest of us, after a career where their main achievement is the continuation of a rotten political system which does little for the people of Ireland and much for the politicians.

Perhaps Plato’s quote applies here: “One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.”

chopper6

Icepick wrote: »

Actually the problem is how much they do for the half of the population that's on welfare.

Half of the population is on welfare?

Icepick

chopper6 wrote: »

Half of the population is on welfare?

yes

Geuze

chopper6 wrote: »

Half of the population is on welfare?

YES.

I was strongly and repeatedly challenged when I stated this on Boards before.

See from about post 90 here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057001753&page=8

Note that I work in this area and deal with these stats every week.

I would never lie.

Now maybe some of the links I posted initially weren't live, but eventually my challengers had to accept the DSP stats.

All info in www.welfare.ie, in the Annual Statistical Report.

See here:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Annual-Statistical-Information-Reports.aspx


Here is the 2012 report:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Annual-SWS-Statistical-Information-Report---2012.aspx

golfwallah

chopper6 wrote: »

Half of the population is on welfare?

Icepick wrote: »

yes

With welfare budgets so high in Europe, maybe that's why action has already been taken in the UK to implement a "welfare cap" and is planned in Holland, for example to require unemployed people to move home to find work or their dole will be stopped:

The core of the new social assistance is that the rules are stricter. Candidates may be forced to include move for a job. Consideration may also be required in return for the payment. Who does not cooperate, can receive a substantial penalty.

http://www.nu.nl/politiek/3695288/toch-korting-bijstand-en-aow-bij-delen-kosten.html

I gather from a relative living there that, amongst other welfare changes, the Dutch are also proposing to cut dole to parents if the children living at home also receive the dole.

Geuze

chopper6 wrote: »

Half of the population is on welfare?

2012 data from 2012 DSP stats report, Section A:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Social%20Stats%20AR%202012_Section%20A.pdf

"Over 1,469,000 people were in receipt of a weekly social welfare payment at the end of 2012.
As these payments included increases in respect of over 202,500 Qualified Adults and over 512,500 children, along with Family Income Supplement and Guardian’s payments made in respect of 75,000 children, there were over
2,259,000 beneficiaries in all."

Note that this excludes monthly Child Benefit payments.

2012 beneficiaries = 2,259,000
2012 pop estimated = 4,585,000

AlekSmart

Geuze wrote: »

2012 data from 2012 DSP stats report, Section A:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Social%20Stats%20AR%202012_Section%20A.pdf

"Over 1,469,000 people were in receipt of a weekly social welfare payment at the end of 2012.
As these payments included increases in respect of over 202,500 Qualified Adults and over 512,500 children, along with Family Income Supplement and Guardian’s payments made in respect of 75,000 children, there were over
2,259,000 beneficiaries in all."

Note that this excludes monthly Child Benefit payments.

2012 beneficiaries = 2,259,000
2012 pop estimated = 4,585,000

Worth noting also that some 748,000 of those "beneficiaries" also recieved a Free Travel Pass covering c.1,100,000 persons....A German,reading stats like these,might go ...we however, know better and go...;) !

golfwallah

AlekSmart wrote: »

Worth noting also that some 748,000 of those "beneficiaries" also recieved a Free Travel Pass covering c.1,100,000 persons....A German,reading stats like these,might go ...we however, know better and go...;) !

I thinks it's getting time for Enda to get rid of non-performing Ministers like Joan Burton, who can't or won't substantially reduce their budgets.

We have plenty of ministers at the cabinet table who are raising taxes and charges on those who are working.

It's about time we got someone in Social Welfare who has the guts to do what it takes to reduce spending, like is happening in the UK and Holland!

It can be done - but not apparently by Minister Joan Burton.

mariaalice

Just to note anyone receiving family income supplement are working and are the half of the population on welfare include those receiving pensions.

For the sake of clarity when any one on here states that half the population is on welfare they should brake It down to each type of support, as there is a tendency by some people to want to present it as half of the adult population of Ireland is s depended on social welfare for all their income.

jmayo

golfwallah wrote: »

With welfare budgets so high in Europe, maybe that's why action has already been taken in the UK to implement a "welfare cap" and is planned in Holland, for example to require unemployed people to move home to find work or their dole will be stopped:

http://www.nu.nl/politiek/3695288/toch-korting-bijstand-en-aow-bij-delen-kosten.html

I gather from a relative living there that, amongst other welfare changes, the Dutch are also proposing to cut dole to parents if the children living at home also receive the dole.

And an even bigger problem will be the pension one coming down the road in years to come.
Future generations are going to end up working a lot longer and end up getting even less when they do finish.

golfwallah wrote: »

I thinks it's getting time for Enda to get rid of non-performing Ministers like Joan Burton, who can't or won't substantially reduce their budgets.

We have plenty of ministers at the cabinet table who are raising taxes and charges on those who are working.

It's about time we got someone in Social Welfare who has the guts to do what it takes to reduce spending, like is happening in the UK and Holland!

It can be done - but not apparently by Minister Joan Burton.

Problem is labour.
Remember how many wage supplements, add ons, etc that labour minister brendan howlin was going to cut after his exhasive review of the public sector wage bill ?
I think it was less than 5.

He had to be told to go back and revisit the whole thing.

mariaalice wrote: »

Just to note anyone receiving family income supplement are working and are the half of the population on welfare include those receiving pensions.

For the sake of clarity when any one on here states that half the population is on welfare they should brake It down to each type of support, as there is a tendency by some people to want to present it as half of the adult population of Ireland is s depended on social welfare for all their income.

You are trying the usual tactic of trying to make it sound less worse.
It is scary to think that half the population are in receipt of some form of state welfare, even if it is just some form of salry top up.

Add in the number in state employment to that figure and it is even scarier to think how many the private sector are supporting.

mariaalice

jmayo wrote: »

And an even bigger problem will be the pension one coming down the road in years to come.
Future generations are going to end up working a lot longer and end up getting even less when they do finish.



Problem is labour.
Remember how many wage supplements, add ons, etc that labour minister brendan howlin was going to cut after his exhasive review of the public sector wage bill ?
I think it was less than 5.

He had to be told to go back and revisit the whole thing.



You are trying the usual tactic of trying to make it sound less worse.
It is scary to think that half the population are in receipt of some form of state welfare, even if it is just some form of salry top up.

Add in the number in state employment to that figure and it is even scarier to think how many the private sector are supporting.

It is scary if you think about it, but I suppose the best way to think of it is as a form of income redistribution, that's the kind of modern welfare state we have, however student fees are 2000 at the moment how much do you think a third level education actually costs, so that's a form of income redistribution, but somehow a lot of people are blind to that and only see their tax's being used for welfare.

I pay so much tax and usc that I don't look at it anymore I just look at what I am taking home.

Geuze

mariaalice wrote: »

Just to note anyone receiving family income supplement are working and are the half of the population on welfare include those receiving pensions.

Yes, of course.

You may be suggesting that some people think "welfare = unemployed", which of course is untrue.

If I have time I will list the numbers for you.

Geuze

See table A8 for a breakdown of recipients across DSP schemes:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Social%20Stats%20AR%202012_Section%20A.pdf


State Pensions of all types = 540,000

Working-Age people on income support = 543,000 - THIS IS THE ISSUE IN IRL

Working-Age on employment supports = 66,000

Illness/disability/caring = 287,000 - too high

FIS = 32,000


Total = 1,469,000 recipients.

Idbatterim

I thinks it's getting time for Enda to get rid of non-performing Ministers like Joan Burton, who can't or won't substantially reduce their budgets.

We have plenty of ministers at the cabinet table who are raising taxes and charges on those who are working.

It's about time we got someone in Social Welfare who has the guts to do what it takes to reduce spending, like is happening in the UK and Holland!

It can be done - but not apparently by Minister Joan Burton.

This is it though, Labour ideologically either dont see a problem with it or IF they do, it would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

For the sake of clarity when any one on here states that half the population is on welfare they should brake It down to each type of support, as there is a tendency by some people to want to present it as half of the adult population of Ireland is s depended on social welfare for all their income.

agreed, the break down is important, but the fact that over half the population are on one benefit or another, is pretty staggering!