BASF Walltite Insulation

dathi

not knocking the product shane if you remember it was me that put up the link to the bba cert in other tread but there is an exothermic reaction when the two components are mixed which generates large amounts of heat . there are several well documented cases in usa where poor spray foam insulation installation has resulted it the house catching fire due to the heat given off by the foam.

SpaceTime

Is there any risk this could cause damage as it expands?

My other concern is that we have through-wall vents which were core-drilled into the walls. These are just lined with plastic duct. I wouldn't really want hot foam spewing out !

We've a mid 70s house that has polystyrene in the cavities.
It's about 3000sq ft 2 story.

The heat loss is ridiculous and the energy bills are really crazy.
We have attic insulation that was put in in the 1990s. However, it's just a fairly standard fibre glass setup.
I want to get the back of the roof insulated. It's a natural slate roof and south facing and we actually have a major problem with extreme heat during the summer. It's a very low slope too so it tends to really maximise the sun's energy.
I put a thermometer in the attic during the summer and it was over 50ºC --- a lot of items we stored up there are totally wrecked due to heat damage, particularly plastics and I'm actually concerned about wiring being exposed to those kinds of temps. The roof just has a membrane behind it (it was refitted in the early 00s so it's fairly good spec, but provides zero insulation).

On the plus side, we've a huge solar energy source for water heating etc should we put in panels in the future.

It's split level and there's a basement under the kitchen. Loads of heat loss through the floor.

I'd be very interested in this BASF product for the walls, but any other options for floors and attic would be really useful.

The floor in question isn't a massive area - maybe 20*10 ft and the underside is accessible. So, I assume we could fit some kind of insulation to the back of it?

As it stands, the floor's actually cold to touch during cold weather like we're experiencing at the moment.

shane0007

dathi wrote: »

not knocking the product shane if you remember it was me that put up the link to the bba cert in other tread but there is an exothermic reaction when the two components are mixed which generates large amounts of heat . there are several well documented cases in usa where poor spray foam insulation installation has resulted it the house catching fire due to the heat given off by the foam.

Not being funny but there are completely different standards & products in the USA that would not be touched with a barge pole in Europe.
Is the product you refer to the same product as BASF Waltite or is a completely different unrelated product?
Waltite is BBA certified & also in Germany where it is manufactured.
It is installed hot. It takes approx 9-11 secs to cure. I have felt the product immediately myself as it comes out & it is cold to touch.
If you need information on the product you can look up the product details & the cert.

For me, the whole house has increased in temperature by 3C & this is consistent. My daughters bedrooms are both north facing & were the coldest in the house. They are now 20C day & night. Kitchen is now 22C which is too warm but it gets a lot of solar gain. This used to be 19C max.
Huge noticeable difference in air tightness. I have 110mm vents in every room so now with all the air leakage gone, they are very comfortable now.
I have a 6m x 4m gallery hall which is 5.5m high which was always cold. This is now warm at 20C.

corkgsxr

Thats your house slowly smoldering away inside the walls shane

dathi

corkgsxr wrote: »

Thats your house slowly smoldering away inside the walls shane

never said that or implied it. was just pointing out that there is heat given off by all two part foams as they expand and yes i have read the bba cert

MicktheMan

shane0007 wrote: »

Huge noticeable difference in air tightness.

Imo, this is the main reason for your room temp improvements. My concerns would be how well this air tightness improvement ages of time in, say, 5 or 10 years from now. Will it be still air tight or will there be some shrinkage in the product allowing air to leak again. Suppose only time will tell.

murphaph

Is this product similar to icenyne (ot sure of spelling)?

Eire sun

murphaph wrote: »

Is this product similar to icenyne (ot sure of spelling)?

No. Icycnene do have a closed cell, but it has no certification from which an accurate density, u value or moisture resistance level can be assessed. You only have the maufacturers specification to go on, which can state anything. You should only use products that hold either an NSAI or BBA "Valid" certification.

funnyname

Would this work on a stone fronted house with a block cavity wall, would the holes required be small enough to be drilled through the mortar rather than the stone?

Eire sun

funnyname wrote: »

Would this work on a stone fronted house with a block cavity wall, would the holes required be small enough to be drilled through the mortar rather than the stone?

It really depends on how big the jointing between the stones are. The standard drill size is 12mm. In some situations this type of application is possible by using a long drill bit and injection nozzle, but it is important that the foam is injected to the block cavity and not the gap between the stone and outer block leaf. In general stone faced houses are injected at the build stage from inside, but retrofit is possible in some cases, however you would need to have it surveyed to know for sure.

funnyname

Thanks

The house has a B3 rating but there are a few draughts in the gaff. most seem to be coming from the wooden frames for the windows and doors, still tracking them down. Also the crawl spaces with their trap doors seem to be an issue.

So maybe if we concentrate on those then there'll be no need for extra insulation between the cavity.

Eire sun wrote: »

It really depends on how big the jointing between the stones are. The standard drill size is 12mm. In some situations this type of application is possible by using a long drill bit and injection nozzle, but it is important that the foam is injected to the block cavity and not the gap between the stone and outer block leaf. In general stone faced houses are injected at the build stage from inside, but retrofit is possible in some cases, however you would need to have it surveyed to know for sure.

shivBo

Hi,
I am new to posting here so don't know if this is the right place but just looking for anyone's experience as I haven't found anything looking through posts (I usually get loads of info here just reading!) We are building a new build in Galway at the moment, after looking at all the options and spending a long time deliberating we decided to use a company in Roscommon who highly recommended wall tite a purple foam that is pumped into the cavities. This was a very expensive option thousands more than the other option we were going with originally but we were guaranteed it was the best option nothing else to match it was promised the 'Rolls Royce' of insulation etc so we decided it was worth the extra cost. So we went with them the house was pumped and a few weeks later we noticed cracks appearing all over the walls outside and inside. Some of the cracks are huge and have moved up to 2mm (outside) and others are smaller more hair line cracks. We are absolutely devastated. We have people calling to the house taking pictures, my husband has received so many calls from people saying they have heard and offering advice- take down all the outside walls, do this do that but nobody knew would the cracks re appear continue to get bigger. Anyway long story short this has caused indescribable stress so we engaged a structural engineer who gave us a report on exactly how it can be fixed with a 100% guarantee of no other problems - hugely expensive to remedy but fixable.
My question is has any one else got any experience of this insulation and their walls cracking? We were never ever informed this was a risk in fact we were told that is why is was so expensive it was so labour intensive etc. Would really appreciate hearing other people's experiences, thanks in advance!
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JonathonS

Hi, that sounds stressful all right but as you are building a new build surely your architect and builder must take responsibility for this and ensure it is rectified at no cost to you?

sky6

Was it pumped too soon, while all the Blockwork was still a bit Fresh. Was there sufficient and correct Wall ties installed. As said above it seems like a problem that should be paid for by the professionals involved. Has your assessor Engineer identified what caused the problem.?

shivBo

We are doing a self build, our engineer was at the site meeting when we met with this insulation co and did the research for us and advised us it did seem to be the best in the market so we went ahead with it never knowing about these risks. There was no issue with wall ties there was more than the required number used we have all the receipts as to the size and amounts used and it was checked at each stage by building regs/engineer. The engineer said it was basically the foam being pumped too quickly which caused the cracks and damage it is significantly worse on one side of the house with the bigger gable, there little or no cracking on the other end of the house.

sky6

If the Engineer can support that view then surely the company who pumped the cavity would be liable. What was done differently in the parts with little or no cracks.

JonathonS

You should be posting on the Legal Advice forum, not here, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

Actually, armed with your engineers report you should be visiting your solicitor.

marsbar1

Great thread with useful info. The engineers report on my house says that I should 'pump the cavities'. But the house was built 2006-7, surely the house would have had good enough insulation already fitted at the building stage?

MicktheMan

marsbar1 wrote: »

Great thread with useful info. The engineers report on my house says that I should 'pump the cavities'. But the house was built 2006-7, surely the house would have had good enough insulation already fitted at the building stage?

It's not all about insulation. Air tightness is as, if not more, important than insulation in our mild but windy climate.

marsbar1

But then you lose that air tightness by having whopping great holes in all the rooms in the house - ie. vents

MicktheMan

Maybe you should keep the discussion on air vents in one thread.

marsbar1

Maybe not, as it was you which brought up the subject of air tightness as being the advantage of having more cavity wall insulation. If that's the only advantage then I don't see the need to have it done if I follow your advice to not block my vents up.

MicktheMan

marsbar1 wrote: »

1. Maybe not, as it was you which brought up the subject of air tightness as being the advantage of having more cavity wall insulation.
2.If that's the only advantage then I don't see the need to have it done if I follow your advice to not block my vents up.

1. Stop putting words in my mouth. Where did I say that extra insulation equals better air tightness?

2. Covered in the other thread.

marsbar1

MicktheMan wrote: »

It's not all about insulation. Air tightness is as, if not more, important than insulation in our mild but windy climate.

There

MicktheMan

marsbar1 wrote: »

There

Where?

marieab

Shane, any update on your experience with this product

Dtp1979

marieab wrote: »

Shane, any update on your experience with this product

Shanes no longer on boards I'm afraid

marieab

thanks Dtp1979.

anyone else any update on this product?

Vinny B

We recently got our house pumped with the said "Walltite" or closed cell air/water tight foam. We had the same fears regarding cracks in the wall but our house was absolutely freezing despite standard rock wool in the attic and on the sloping ceilings. We had no choice other than dry line the whole house which would be a major disruption to family life for probably a month if not longer and cost a fortune or externally insulate which again would cost a fortune so the only really viable option was to pump the walls and ceilings. Our house is 25yrs old so figured if no cracks in that time it should be ok and as it turns it out it was. The only place where the purple walltite came out at the windows and doors sealing the air from escaping and made an almost noticeable difference to the heat in the house. That been said we also got our ceilings pumped up the rafters with an open cell foam which made our attic look like santas grotto and I feel that made the most noticeable difference but difficult to say as both were done concurrently.
I had done a lot of reading about U values before we went with the Walltitie/foam as the bonded beads were about 1/3 to 1/4 the price and the said U value was .35 when inserted into a standard cavity wall with 5cm of aeroboard on the inner leaf. Standard cavity without any filler has a U value of .59. The Walltite is meant to bring it down to .27 but as the engineer/ heat pump installer who recommended it too us said "its about stopping the air exchanging in the house to trap the heat" as opposed to thicker insulation which will not stop the air/heat exchanging. I suppose feeling it is to believe it. The ambient room temps is what I was most concerned about as we have 3 small children and it has brought the baseline temp from 11-13degrees to 15-16 degrees in our room which is north facing without heating being on with outside temp ranging from 2-8degrees. We had spoken to a few people who had it done for a start and that reassured us. It is expensive but I am a believer in doing it once, doing it right and never doing it again. We used the Walltite installer in the cavan/monaghan area who was mentioned before on the insulation forums and were delighted with the finished product.
In summary our house is now 3-4 degrees warmer with the combination of attic and wall insulation and hangs on to the heat so when you come back to the living room where the stove was on before you go to bed it is still warm in that room the following morning.

oconnb3

hi all,

was wondering if any of ye have any updates on Walltite insulation

experience with it? performance of walltite?

as one of ye said you get one chance to fill the cavity - house was built in 2000 minium insulation standard, 100mm cavity with 60mm white aerobord and a bit leaky. Walltite seem the perfect fit!!!!! also about double the price