Reduced Capacity on Peak service

Jamie2k9

thomasj wrote: »

Why fix something that's not broken?

It was fine when it was a 6-coach, just put it back to the way it was.

Irish rail cannot afford to risk losing passengers on this or any other services.

Will the passengers be prepared to pay more for it?.

Cookie_Monster

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

None due for the next while but it will be end of the year if not early 2014 before the whole fleet is changed over so only then can a new timetable be planned. Clearly this train should be non stop from Maynooth in whi its a 4 car.

what stops them planning a timetable until there are spare trains lying around doing nothing and they've lost X% of their customers on affected lines?

Why can't IE use the comprehensive amount of data they have to plan the timetable in advance, rather than wait and see what they have lying around to use?

markpb

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Will the passengers be prepared to pay more for it?.

Who will pay for it if people leave Irish Rail in favour of another transport method?

Anyway this seems to have gone off topic. Assuming you're right and a timetable change will help support the drop in capacity, why did Irish Rail go ahead and reduce the capacity knowing that there would be problems for several months until the new timetable arrived. Surely they should be doing the two at the same time?

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Will the passengers be prepared to pay more for it?.

Are you for real? Pay MORE for something they are already paying dearly for?

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Drop stops from Maynooth onwards.

they could, maybe should do this now then? Is that your point?

thomasj

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Drop stops from Maynooth onwards.

People can barely board the train after that as it is, if people are offset from that service, how do you propose they resolve the following train?

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

There is a huge difference between leaving people behind when the entire fleet is on the road

I regularly saw at least 10+ buses sitting in Donnybrook depot every morning on my way past at 8-8.30am. The entire fleet is never out and if you replicate that over all the depots there must always be at least 50 buses idle, not to mention those withdrawn in the sheds (out of sight) for maintenance cycles.

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

So how is it affecting you? Can only speak from my own experiences, but for example, the 05.40am Longford -Pearse..Now reduced to 4 carriages.. While I'm lucky where I board that I will get a seat, it's a disgrace to have to see fellow commuters left either squashed nose to nose on the train or on the platform as there simply is not enough room on this train anymore. :mad: Who are the geniuses that come up with these cost/energy saving initiatives, while increasing our fares at the same time?

Can you see if people are crammed nose to nose in all carriages from your seat or just the one that you are in? Ive seen people jump into the first carriage that stop by them and give out about it being crammed and at the same time one or two of the other carriages have a few seats free with only those choosing to stand doing so. Im not saying its the case with your train but that it does happen.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Can you see if people are crammed nose to nose in all carriages from your seat or just the one that you are in? Ive seen people jump into the first carriage that stop by them and give out about it being crammed and at the same time one or two of the other carriages have a few seats free with only those choosing to stand doing so. Im not saying its the case with your train but that it does happen.

People aren't going to blindly ram in to the same carriage at every single station. Particularly as which end of the platform is nearer the entrance is not the same at every station. Its pretty safe to say that the other carriages are as crowded. They aren't the top deck of a bus.

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

People aren't going to blindly ram in to the same carriage at every single station. Particularly as which end of the platform is nearer the entrance is not the same at every station. Its pretty safe to say that the other carriages are as crowded. They aren't the top deck of a bus.

Ive seen it happen.

LXFlyer

With respect - it is obvious that there some of the trains being shortened right now just cannot cope as such and trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

People standing to/from Longford as reported elsewhere, people being left behind from other stations as per above, and elsewhere, is just not acceptable.

Jamie2k9

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what stops them planning a timetable until there are spare trains lying around doing nothing and they've lost X% of their customers on affected lines?

Why can't IE use the comprehensive amount of data they have to plan the timetable in advance, rather than wait and see what they have lying around to use?

Not saying they couldn't

Who will pay for it if people leave Irish Rail in favour of another transport method?

Would think the answer is quiet obvious....

Are you for real? Pay MORE for something they are already paying dearly for?

Still below what others pay for similar service/routes. As I say Rail travel is cheap here even if we think its not.

they could, maybe should do this now then? Is that your point?

Don't know the line workings in detail but expect dropping stops now would be pointless with current schedules in place.

People can barely board the train after that as it is, if people are offset from that service, how do you propose they resolve the following train?

Increase capacity on shorter trains in the Dublin area would deliver costs that running empty trains to Longford/Sligo everyday of the week.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I regularly saw at least 10+ buses sitting in Donnybrook depot every morning on my way past at 8-8.30am. The entire fleet is never out and if you replicate that over all the depots there must always be at least 50 buses idle, not to mention those withdrawn in the sheds (out of sight) for maintenance cycles.

With respect - I think you know what I meant. You will always have maintenance cover.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Ive seen it happen.

I haven't, and I've travelled the Maynooth Line rather a lot.

Its effectively impossible considering the bunching positions on the platforms are in different locations in virtual every single station due to where their entrances and stop positions are.

People, in general, aren't that stupid either - the issue with double deckers is the stairs, something trains don't have.

This sounds like another ridiculous suggestion to try and cover for Irish Rail.

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Can you see if people are crammed nose to nose in all carriages from your seat or just the one that you are in? Ive seen people jump into the first carriage that stop by them and give out about it being crammed and at the same time one or two of the other carriages have a few seats free with only those choosing to stand doing so. Im not saying its the case with your train but that it does happen.

There were crammed yes on my carriage..On the 2nd/3rd carriage were 2 work colleagues of mine who told me it was the same on their carriages too. It's just unfair it has come to this, it's ever backwards Irish Rail are going nowadays. I know no system is ever going to be perfect, but they've created this situation now themselves & expect us to pay more for it in the process.

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

I haven't, and I've travelled the Maynooth Line rather a lot.

Its effectively impossible considering the bunching positions on the platforms are in different locations in virtual every single station due to where their entrances and stop positions are.

People, in general, aren't that stupid either - the issue with double deckers is the stairs, something trains don't have.

This sounds like another ridiculous suggestion to try and cover for Irish Rail.

Its not impossible and people can be that stupid, see the post i made about people swapping from a 2 car dart to a 4 car .
Covering and ridiculous??? How?

n97 mini

MYOB is right. Peak hour trains from Maynooth have more space towards the front when they arrive into Confey as the entrances to the platform in the preceding two stations, Maynooth and Louisa Bridge, are towards the back of the train.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

With respect - I think you know what I meant. You will always have maintenance cover.

aside from maintenance cover there are always buses sitting idle in the yards at rush-hour, always. Of course it is allowable to have a certain number of buses out under maint at all times, but I doubt these are the same ones that sit idle lined up in the yards.

foggy_lad

I was in Connolly on Monday on platform 5 trying to get a dart to raheny and two 4 car darts arrived for howth and malahide and both were jam packed with miserable looking commuters. A few brave souls managed to get on these overcrowded darts but the rest of us got the Drogheda commuter just after them.

I thought peak time darts were not being cut? Both these short darts were just after 6pm.

MDFM

So we have 7 carriages this morning!

L1011

What was a 4 car 29k yesterday is a 3 car 22 today. Let's see how rammed this gets...

edit: was standing from Coolmine.

bikeman1

foggy_lad wrote: »

I was in Connolly on Monday on platform 5 trying to get a dart to raheny and two 4 car darts arrived for howth and malahide and both were jam packed with miserable looking commuters. A few brave souls managed to get on these overcrowded darts but the rest of us got the Drogheda commuter just after them.

I thought peak time darts were not being cut? Both these short darts were just after 6pm.

Foggy how did you get the Drogheda Commuter, to Raheny? it doesn't stop there?

The rule on the DART seems if there is noone left behind, then its fine. A lot of passengers you saw were probably just waiting for the Drogheda or Maynooth service.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Once passengers get seats before Maynooth, its fine to have 4 carriages in place.

not if its going to potentially drive away customers

end of the road

MYOB wrote: »

It's not like they're particularly short of rolling stock...

definitely not, so much so that theirs a load of it in storage awaiting the breakers

foggy_lad

bikeman1 wrote: »

Foggy how did you get the Drogheda Commuter, to Raheny? it doesn't stop there?

The rule on the DART seems if there is noone left behind, then its fine. A lot of passengers you saw were probably just waiting for the Drogheda or Maynooth service.

Got the commuter train to Howth Junction then dart back to Raheny.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I was in Connolly on Monday on platform 5 trying to get a dart to raheny and two 4 car darts arrived for howth and malahide and both were jam packed with miserable looking commuters. A few brave souls managed to get on these overcrowded darts but the rest of us got the Drogheda commuter just after them.

I thought peak time darts were not being cut? Both these short darts were just after 6pm.

There was no darts jam packed at that time Foggy. There was a mixture of 4 piece and 6 pieces at that time, I was on that platform myself at that time. Didn't see you though .

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

What was a 4 car 29k yesterday is a 3 car 22 today. Let's see how rammed this gets...

edit: was standing from Coolmine.

Standing from Coolmine is nothing new even if it was an 8 piece at peak times.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Standing from Coolmine is nothing new even if it was an 8 piece at peak times.

This was 3 car. I fail to see the relevance here, other than your continual defence of Irish Rail.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

There was no darts jam packed at that time Foggy. There was a mixture of 4 piece and 6 pieces at that time, I was on that platform myself at that time. Didn't see you though .

I was there but hey with the thousand or so people on platform five you cant have seen everybody.
The two darts I waited for were 4 car trains. One to howth which was packed out and the same wirh the one to malahide. The dart to greystones had plenty of seats and was an 8 car train. Is it a northside thing?

Emme

The Heuston to Waterford peak time trains have also reduced in capacity from 6 cars to 4 or even 3 cars. The 6 cars were nearly always full so I can't see the logic in this. There's barely standing room and the people standing in aisles have to squeeze into already occupied seats to let the guy with the food cart pass.

Heuston also have a habit of leaving the announcement of platforms for the Waterford train till the last minute. There is barely 5 minutes for everyone to board the train. When the platform is announced there is a mad stampede for the train and it doesn't help that half the ticket points aren't working. People push, run and jostle their way to the train and there are queues at entry points to the carriages.

I really feel sorry for the elderly and the disabled who travel on the Waterford line. Elderly and disabled people naturally take longer to get into seats (if they can get a seat!) and this should be taken into account when deciding boarding times. Last week one woman had to stand beside her wheelchair bound child for 4 stops.

Peak time Heuston to Waterford trains were crowded enough with 6 cars, but with 4 cars it isn't suitable for anyone who isn't in the full of their health and fitness. Maybe the people at IE who make the decisions think that everyone who uses the train is fit, healthy, no taller than 5'8 and no heavier than 70kg. Or a hobbit. That is not the case and quite a few people don't fit comfortably into one seat - they may be too tall and they have to sit with their legs in the aisles or they are too fat and their bulk spills into the next seat.

I often see mothers having to put their small children sitting on the table in front of them because they don't have room in their seats to put the child on their knee. The USP of Iarnrod Eireann's latest radio advertisement is that you can work on the train. Some people manage to do this but I challenge anyone to do productive work with a screaming child on the table beside them and its parents munching their way through a pungent snack box.

Soon there will be Christmas shoppers on the train with all their bags - Iarnrod Eireann should take this into account and put a 6 car train back on the Waterford line.

4 cars might be ok on the Waterford train if it doesn't stop before Athy. People who get off at Athy and beyond have no choice but to take the Waterford train. Lately the train is only comfortable after the Athy commuters get off. Commuters who get off before this can take other trains. Indeed since the train size has reduced the number of people who get off at Kildare and before has diminished.