Eurovision Song Contest 2014

grenache

yoyojc wrote: »

The Italian entry has been in my head since Saturday night.. it's like it subconciously made it's way into my brain..

Emma Marrone had the hottest routine of any performer. She seems a bit mad though, like she'd eat you up and spit you out without much thought.

Welsh Megaman

This time last week, we were discovering the virtues of butter churning and Cheesecake

*sigh*

ShaneMc2012

Welsh Megaman wrote: »

This time last week, we were discovering the virtues of butter churning and Cheesecake

*sigh*

Well the Belarussian song is infact No. 68 in our charts at the moment..
http://www.irma.ie/aucharts.asp
Also the Netherlands is No. 4,
Austria is No. 10,
Sweden is 21,
Norway is 34,
UK is 36,
Denmark is 38,
Ireland is 39,
Switzerland is 49,
Armenia is 60,
the Interval Act is 65,
Finland is 72,
Greece 73,
Spain 75,
France 79,
Germany 83,
Sweden (2012) 84,
Romania 88,
Hungary is 92 and Malta 93.

That has to be the most ever? 20% of the Irish Charts!

Welsh Megaman

ShaneMc2012 wrote: »

Also the Netherlands is No. 4,
Austria is No. 10,

Had a feeling that would happen, the Netherlands song is being played a lot more over here than Austria - lots of youtube ads for the song too.

thelad95

I don't understand the hype about the Netherlands song. It's meh at best. I heard it for the first time during the final and was amazed it was one of the favourites.

gavmcg92

A very important winner for the competition. Have a great admiration for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meegyxyx1RY

yoyojc

grenache wrote: »

Emma Marrone had the hottest routine of any performer. She seems a bit mad though, like she'd eat you up and spit you out without much thought.

The song is really good once you listen to it a few times. She's really famous in Italy.. I hope it doesn't damage her career too much having placed so low.

Elmo

thelad95 wrote: »

I don't understand the hype about the Netherlands song. It's meh at best. I heard it for the first time during the final and was amazed it was one of the favourites.

Ireland loves middle of the road Country and Western Music. One of the reason why the SunshineFM licence should be for the Midlands and not Dublin.

gavmcg92 wrote: »

A very important winner for the competition. Have a great admiration for him.

TBH while I understand you sentiment I would worry that the sentiment for many people is purely one of Eurovision novelty.

Is he a Drag Queen or a CD? Is this his normal walk around the house type of look?

emanresu esrever

gavmcg92 wrote: »

A very important winner for the competition. Have a great admiration for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meegyxyx1RY

Why is it so IMPORTANT?? He is what he is, a cross dressing act who takes on a female persona for the sake of a singing career. I understand the issues it has raised or drawn attention to but I honestly don't think the act is anything but drag queen, which is essentially novelty in itself.

Were Lordi important for dressing up as monsters, was Dustin the Turkey IMPORTANT, even though he didnt win!

Anyway wasn't there a drag queen winner before, 1992, if I recollect ; )

Ps, I have nothing against Conchita (sure he/she won me 38 euro!) but I really don't think a drag act winning Eurovision is going to bring peace and tolerance to the issue of "difference" and gay rights etc. It was symbolic to a few people I guess, but overall, its importance is questionable.

emanresu esrever

At the end of the day he is just a normal human being, no moreso than anyone else. I understand there are bigots out there but I look at guys like Graham Norton/Ellen/Matt Lucas, even Elton in the media who don't seek to nor need to elaborate their sexuality or draw attention to their image and are well respected in the industry not because of their, what these bigots perceive to be, differences as more inspirational and even more important.
At the end of the day, he doesnt wear a beard and a dress when out for a pint nor do many other people.
He admits himself its a drag act persona.

gavmcg92

emanresu esrever wrote: »

Why is it so IMPORTANT?? He is what he is, a cross dressing act who takes on a female persona for the sake of a singing career. I understand the issues it has raised or drawn attention to but I honestly don't think the act is anything but drag queen, which is essentially novelty in itself.

Were Lordi important for dressing up as monsters, was Dustin the Turkey IMPORTANT, even though he didnt win!

Anyway wasn't there a drag queen winner before, 1992, if I recollect ; )

Ps, I have nothing against Conchita (sure he/she won me 38 euro!) but I really don't think a drag act winning Eurovision is going to bring peace and tolerance to the issue of "difference" and gay rights etc. It was symbolic to a few people I guess, but overall, its importance is questionable.

You mightn't see it as important but there are a lot of people who do. Those who are directly affected by those similar to Tom Neuwirth or "Conchita" who face these sort of bigots that have risen their heads since his victory and also those who are not in the LGBT community but who have the utmost respect for them and their struggles.

I don't think it's necessary for the vast majority of people to see that this isn't a gimmick act. The target audience is already listening. Challenging peoples preconceived notions of what it is to be a man or a woman has been a positive effect too.

emanresu esrever

gavmcg92 wrote: »

You mightn't see it as important but there are a lot of people who do. Those who are directly affected by those similar to Tom Neuwirth or "Conchita" who face these sort of bigots that have risen their heads since his victory and also those who are not in the LGBT community but who have the utmost respect for them and their struggles.

I don't think it's necessary for the vast majority of people to see that this isn't a gimmick act. The target audience is already listening. Challenging peoples preconceived notions of what it is to be a man or a woman has been a positive effect too.

I dont think you get my point, just because people were drawn to it and affected by it doesnt mean it had an importance in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of gay acts out there, gay entertainers, gay personalities etc and they dont see themselves as different, nor do the public
Why should his act have to be about him being gay anyway? It doesnt feature nor it shouldn't. I do still feel his costume and beard isnt so much a statement but an accessorie and he would be very ordinary and definitely not a Eurovision winner without it.
People were drawn by the publicity, the negative comments and the image, not the agenda which he was promoting.
I imagine he will be used in LGBT acceptance campaigns and become a posterboy for Gay rights etc and that isn't an issue but to say it is an important winner for the competition, I wouldnt agree with, especially given that most fans of Eurovision embrace the ideals of "difference" already.
Him winning is hardly going to make the bigots change their opinions anyway, people like those Russian politicians who criticised his inclusion more than likely are stuck in their opinions and definitely not Eurovision adherents.

At the end of the day, he essentially used a gimmick,with a gimmick being a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries (ie the cross dressing and beard combination) to forge a career and it has peaked with this win and fair play to him.

BuilderPlumber

Elmo wrote: »

Ireland loves middle of the road Country and Western Music. One of the reason why the SunshineFM licence should be for the Midlands and not Dublin.?

The Dutch entry reminded me of Garth Brooks a lot actually. I am unsure why certain songs do well some years and not other years. The Dutch came nearly first with this country flavoured song this time but the Germans were less lucky with a very similar one a few short years ago.

As regards Ireland and country music and folk: unfortunately, it has been diluted and given the boyband look and feel. The likes of Mike Denver and Derek Ryan epitomise this and I call it boyfolk (Boyband folk) music. And Ryan is not even a good singer. I miss the more genuine country and folk singers like Luke Kelly, Larry Cunningham, Dolores Keane, Sean Keane, Christy Moore and Big Tom. These all did far superior music, call it folk or country or whatever.

yoyojc

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The Dutch entry reminded me of Garth Brooks a lot actually. I am unsure why certain songs do well some years and not other years. The Dutch came nearly first with this country flavoured song this time but the Germans were less lucky with a very similar one a few short years ago.

As regards Ireland and country music and folk: unfortunately, it has been diluted and given the boyband look and feel. The likes of Mike Denver and Derek Ryan epitomise this and I call it boyfolk (Boyband folk) music. And Ryan is not even a good singer. I miss the more genuine country and folk singers like Luke Kelly, Larry Cunningham, Dolores Keane, Sean Keane, Christy Moore and Big Tom. These all did far superior music, call it folk or country or whatever.

I remember that German entry... I think it remember being actually better. Before they won Germany went through a streak of sending really good songs and placing no where year after year. Some countries just go through that phase really..

Elmo

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I miss the more genuine country and folk singers like Luke Kelly, Larry Cunningham, Dolores Keane, Sean Keane, Christy Moore and Big Tom. These all did far superior music, call it folk or country or whatever.

I'd agree with this but that Country and Western is different to Folk/Trad.

Also the arrival of Celtic Women and the other plastic paddy rubbish Phil Coulter producers

hotmail.com

emanresu esrever wrote: »

I dont think you get my point, just because people were drawn to it and affected by it doesnt mean it had an importance in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of gay acts out there, gay entertainers, gay personalities etc and they dont see themselves as different, nor do the public
Why should his act have to be about him being gay anyway? It doesnt feature nor it shouldn't. I do still feel his costume and beard isnt so much a statement but an accessorie and he would be very ordinary and definitely not a Eurovision winner without it.
People were drawn by the publicity, the negative comments and the image, not the agenda which he was promoting.
I imagine he will be used in LGBT acceptance campaigns and become a posterboy for Gay rights etc and that isn't an issue but to say it is an important winner for the competition, I wouldnt agree with, especially given that most fans of Eurovision embrace the ideals of "difference" already.
Him winning is hardly going to make the bigots change their opinions anyway, people like those Russian politicians who criticised his inclusion more than likely are stuck in their opinions and definitely not Eurovision adherents.

At the end of the day, he essentially used a gimmick,with a gimmick being a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries (ie the cross dressing and beard combination) to forge a career and it has peaked with this win and fair play to him.

For a drag queen with a beard to win the Eurovision when you think of the sheer amount of bigots in Europe, particularly in Eastern Europe, Conchita did really well. So I'd say a lot of people took inspiration from that achievement, LGBT and straight people alike.

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

I don't understand the hype about the Netherlands song. It's meh at best. I heard it for the first time during the final and was amazed it was one of the favourites.

Elmo wrote: »

Ireland loves middle of the road Country and Western Music. One of the reason why the SunshineFM licence should be for the Midlands and not Dublin.

I wouldn't call it "middle of the road", think that's a bit harsh. I'm no great lover of country music in general (especially not the Oirish country & western shíte that this island produces) but I loved the Dutch entry. Even if it wasn't wholly original there was still something "different" about it, and their live performance was pretty flawless. Had a listen to their album on Spotify and there's quite a few good songs on it. The female singer Ilse has a gorgeous voice.

Elmo

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't call it "middle of the road", think that's a bit harsh. I'm no great lover of country music in general (especially not the Oirish country & western shíte that this island produces) but I loved the Dutch entry. Even if it wasn't wholly original there was still something "different" about it, and their live performance was pretty flawless. Had a listen to their album on Spotify and there's quite a few good songs on it. The female singer Ilse has a gorgeous voice.

Sorry, I was suggesting that Irish people like Middle of the Road country and western, I wasn't suggesting that the song was middle of the road.

Ah ok, apologies for misunderstanding.

gavmcg92

Whatever genre we look to for the future of our eurovision entries, it needs to be a modern take on it. I can see us sending someone like Nathan Carter with Wagon Wheel and wondering why we came last again and not second like the Netherlands. Whatever we do it needs to be fresh, sleek and modern.

carraig2

gavmcg92 wrote: »

Whatever genre we look to for the future of our eurovision entries, it needs to be a modern take on it. I can see us sending someone like Nathan Carter with Wagon Wheel and wondering why we came last again and not second like the Netherlands. Whatever we do it needs to be fresh, sleek and modern.

We need to stop worrying about what Europe wants and just pick a great song. No gimmicks, no formula, pick a good song.

Mark Oxford

carraig2 wrote: »

We need to stop worrying about what Europe wants and just pick a great song. No gimmicks, no formula, pick a good song.

Gimmicks have won it a few times recently.

carraig2

Mark Oxford wrote: »

Gimmicks have won it a few times recently.

Good songs have also won it.

gavmcg92

carraig2 wrote: »

We need to stop worrying about what Europe wants and just pick a great song. No gimmicks, no formula, pick a good song.

Im not suggesting that at all. What I'm saying is whatever we send, it needs to be modern and fresh and not a half arsed attempt.

ShaneMc2012

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I am unsure why certain songs do well some years and not other years. The Dutch came nearly first with this country flavoured song this time but the Germans were less lucky with a very similar one a few short years ago.

To be fair the two songs seem to be very different types of country music. (Although Im not anywhere near an expert :P) In a way with this performance I can see why the Germans didnt fare very well. The staging seems very tacky and the song itself seems very in your face, not anywhere near the quality of Calm After The Storm in my opinion! Not a terrible song however.. Sounds like the type of song we might send next year to try and capitalize on The Netherlands result this year, which of course would come in the bottom 5. :P

BuilderPlumber

Elmo wrote: »

I'd agree with this but that Country and Western is different to Folk/Trad.

Also the arrival of Celtic Women and the other plastic paddy rubbish Phil Coulter producers

True. Country and Western is related to but is different to Irish folk music. Country and Irish is a mix of the two. Eg. Big Tom, Larry Cunningham.

BUT what we have today is a caricature of both more often than not. It is done in a Westlifey style thus why I call it boyfolk. Or Country and Boyband. The factory feel is prevalent in all forms of music. Stage TV competitions (ranging from You're a Star to The Voice to Glor Tire) and we pick our next 'superstar'. Parade them on the Tubridy show and they are made!

The better Irish acts NEVER made it via these channels. So, it would seem that only Ireland thinks many of these acts that win these competitions are great. It is probably the same with the current UK music scene which Ireland copies of course. There are many reasons for us doing poorly in the Eurovision but one of the main ones is that our songs are often below par because they are factory produced and non-innovative.

The epitome of mediocre Irish music was Friday week's performance by Derek Ryan of 'Hold onto your hat' on the Tubidy show. Overall, it was a poorly constructed song lyrically performed by a very average vocalist. On top of this, it was another 'Galway girl' cash in that makes Mike Denver's (and I ain't no fan of his) 'Day of my return' look excellent by comparison. The fact that Ryan even had Sharon Shannon backing him just shows that any ould average singer can appear on national TV backed by a talented musician and then score a hit with a very poorly written song.

If we sent someone like Derek Ryan to the Eurovision singing a song like 'Hold onto your hat', we would deservedly come last again. If we are to copy the Dutch decision to send a country flavoured song, it would probably be tosh like this and not something good that would be sent.

BuilderPlumber

gavmcg92 wrote: »

Whatever genre we look to for the future of our eurovision entries, it needs to be a modern take on it. I can see us sending someone like Nathan Carter with Wagon Wheel and wondering why we came last again and not second like the Netherlands. Whatever we do it needs to be fresh, sleek and modern.

'Wagon wheel' is a good song. Nathan Carter is an above average vocalist and does a good job with this song. BUT we must remember two important things: the song is not his or is not Irish (it was originally written partially by Bob Dylan and then finished off by Old Crow Medicine and covered by many other Americans and even by Mumford and Sons before it ever came here).

I can see 'Wagon Wheel' turn into the new 'Galway Girl' (which spawned clones like 'Day of my return' and the current awful 'Hold onto your hat') somehow. A lot of poor derivatives could well be written and one could be fired at the Eurovision. Nathan Carter probably would refrain from going but some imitator of his would jump at the chance however.

emanresu esrever

hotmail.com wrote: »

For a drag queen with a beard to win the Eurovision when you think of the sheer amount of bigots in Europe, particularly in Eastern Europe, Conchita did really well. So I'd say a lot of people took inspiration from that achievement, LGBT and straight people alike.

I do understand what you are saying, but the OP said it was important for Eurovision, a competition which has always embraced campness, differences, expression and LGBT. I dont see why its important for the competition, in general? A transexual has won it in the past and many homosexuals have participated.
Why dont these people take more inspiration from other successful personalities who happen to be gay but don't feel the need to push their sexuality in peoples faces to make a point. My point is you dont have to be different to be the same? Homosexuality isn't "different" , it is merely a different taste in gender than a "hetrosexual" person, nothing more. So basically what i'm saying is, it wasn't because he was gay that he won, it was the eyecatching dress and beard combination and the great singing also was a helping factor (but give that song and voice to someone without the gimmicks and Id doubt they'd win, just my opinion)

A lot of gay people try their best to be "different", cross dressing, elaborate personas etc when essentially they are just ordinary people whose taste in gender differs to, as i said, hetrosexuals . Yet when someone calls them different for those reasons, ie the cross dressing, the beard and dress combo etc, they are criticised.

I am pro gay rights and have many gay friends and they agree completely with these opinions, in fact it is from them I have learnt a lot about the gay culture.

I just don't think dressing as a woman with a beard is a statement of how homosexuals are the same as all of us, (which they are), I much more believe a gay person going about his/her life without drawing attention to the fact they like the same gender and being respected is much more influential tbh.

At the end of the day, if I was to head out on a stage shouting "I love women" Id be called a prude!

strandroad

I don't think it's about gayness, more about challenging entrenched gender roles... He could be straight and show up as Conchita with similar polarising reactions.

BTW I think the song was great; I did think Conchita is a gimmick act right up until she started to sing. I think that a female diva could win with it too, but it needs personality and grace to carry it all the way up.

yoyojc

ShaneMc2012 wrote: »

To be fair the two songs seem to be very different types of country music. (Although Im not anywhere near an expert :P) In a way with this performance I can see why the Germans didnt fare very well. The staging seems very tacky and the song itself seems very in your face, not anywhere near the quality of Calm After The Storm in my opinion! Not a terrible song however.. Sounds like the type of song we might send next year to try and capitalize on The Netherlands result this year, which of course would come in the bottom 5. :P

I nearly prefer this one.. Calm After the Storm is good after a few listens, on the first listen it sounds very monotonous..