Danske bank to close retail customer accounts

posiedon_regs

yop wrote: »

Thats it exactly and the new T&C's, to suit them, are now much different to the original.
I think our argument is, reinstated the original Offset product with linked account(s) on the original T&C's at the rate +1% with full access and then we will walk away, otherwise you broke the contract and have proven you did.

Compensation should be provided for all losses in both time and interest imposed, in my opinion. The Bank could seize your house if you breached the terms of your mortgage. This Bank is allegedly the most active by far in the courts in the repossession of homes and may not hesitate if the tables were turned!

yop

posiedon_regs wrote: »

Compensation should be provided for all losses in both time and interest imposed, in my opinion. The Bank could seize your house if you breached the terms of your mortgage. This Bank is allegedly the most active by far in the courts in the repossession of homes and may not hesitate if the tables were turned!

Absolutely. Its a one way street, all in their favor and signing this new agreement will swing it 100% in their favor.
They were scared into this by something, what that is I am not sure, going by the FSO response above they don't seem too surprised. I think they ball is in our court and need to hammer it back with 2 fingers.

Give us back what we had or we press on and nail you for breach of contract.

yop

dolallyoh wrote: »

Plus return the additional interest paid as a result.

Cost me about 400 euro to date. (Oh I see Posiedon_regs got there already :thumbsup: )

Yip, we are sitting around 700 now only 4 months in with 206 months left to pay :mad:

dolallyoh

Yep it a lot of money. If it was a 400 or 700 euro bill that you were charged twice for you'd be on the warpath immediately.

stiofanD

For any of you thinking of taking up the offer from Dankse, I rang Pepper to enquire about it.

Clearly they have only just heard about the offer, but they were very clear that the application has to go through them and that it will be treated as a new application. i.e. all the identity and address verification stuff has to be gone through to open the account.

That may be no problem for some, but since my mortgage is a joint one, I would need to get certified documents for both myself and my wife. Its fine for me (apart from the time taken to get them certified) but its always a pain for my wife as all utilities etc are in my name.

Can't understand why they insist on all this documentation when we're already an account holder and would have provided it all before when the mortgage was first opened.

Its almost like they want to make the process as hard as possible so no-one takes it up.

ABC101

stiofanD wrote: »

For any of you thinking of taking up the offer from Dankse, I rang Pepper to enquire about it.

Can't understand why they insist on all this documentation when we're already an account holder and would have provided it all before when the mortgage was first opened.

Its almost like they want to make the process as hard as possible so no-one takes it up.

Ahhh.... welcome to the lovely world of bureaucracy.... where the Rules are the Rules and are there to trample people down, make life difficult etc.

I believe it is a national legal requirement... to prevent money laundering... set up by the Irish Govt some years ago.

If I was to go into AIB, or any other Bank to open 10 bank accounts, they would have to have 10 copies of my Passport / Driving license, 10 copies of my phone bill, 10 copies of my ESB etc etc. The fact that they would be 10 copies of each the same item is irrelevant. It's all about leaving your brain at home and just behaving like a nodding donkey.

Common sense does not exist anymore, and it sure is a tough world if you want to get something good done, because there is so much suffocating / strangulating legal requirements now, it is a lot easier to just not bother anymore.

One of the sad things I have noticed is that.... there seems to be a certain % of the population.... and they love not only making up more crippling rules, but enforcing them, making everybody else's life a misery in the process.

clint_silver

ABC101 wrote: »

Ahhh.... welcome to the lovely world of bureaucracy.... where the Rules are the Rules and are there to trample people down, make life difficult etc.

I believe it is a national legal requirement... to prevent money laundering... set up by the Irish Govt some years ago.

If I was to go into AIB, or any other Bank to open 10 bank accounts, they would have to have 10 copies of my Passport / Driving license, 10 copies of my phone bill, 10 copies of my ESB etc etc. The fact that they would be 10 copies of each the same item is irrelevant. It's all about leaving your brain at home and just behaving like a nodding donkey.

Common sense does not exist anymore, and it sure is a tough world if you want to get something good done, because there is so much suffocating / strangulating legal requirements now, it is a lot easier to just not bother anymore.

One of the sad things I have noticed is that.... there seems to be a certain % of the population.... and they love not only making up more crippling rules, but enforcing them, making everybody else's life a misery in the process.

I queried this with the FSO before as to why I need to provide identification to my bank when they have my identification already but they didnt seem to need my ID when THEY changed my acccount, their line on it was that they issue recommendations only on this to financial institutions, its up to each institution on how they apply them.

I work (sort of) in this area and I know rigid they are, had to do all my money laundering courses, double/triple check everything but the nodding donkey term is bang on, they dont deviate from the stock line new account = multiple forms of ID, and guess what, a bank statement from the bank where youre opening the account doesnt count. watch for that when youre sending in youre Danske statements when you get the application sent back to you incomplete (happened to me)

ABC101

Continuing on the topic of brainless Robots (AKA nodding donkeys).

Anybody recall the recent case of a teenage girl dying on O'Connell St?

She ate a satay sauce in a Chinese restaurant without realising that it contained peanuts.

Shortly after leaving the restaurant... she realised she was in serious difficultly as she was having a reaction.

However O'Connell St is not the Gobi Desert, so they went into a pharmacy requesting a Epipen, as it was a emergency they expected to be given one.

However the pharmacist requested a prescription, which obviously they did not have, so quoting the Rules are the Rules the pharmacist refused to issue the Epipen.

Needless to say the unfortunate girl died shortly after.

When you have brainless robots employed, and you require assistance... you may as well be in the Gobi Desert.

Last week... there was a girl on a flight to the USA, she had a allergic reaction.... but fortunately for her... there was staff with common sense on board... they had the Epipen.. and the medication was administered. Her life was saved.

The moral of the story is... Robots can prevent you breaking the law....but when the law requires to be broken even save a persons life.... you cannot rely upon a robot.

jwrbs

I see the withdrawal form is now on the website.

Now I am not a banker by trade but I would have expected that a form seeking the withdrawal of funds from a bank account might have a box on it that needed to be filled in with details of the amount to be withdrawn? Am I missing something?

Jimpopo

Just had a letter from the central bank of Ireland and they seem to say that danske are taking heed of customers and agree with their offers to us and finish with......

"The Bank has introduced this additional option following customer feedback and following engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland"

Not looking good if you ask me!

kennM

Jimpopo wrote: »

Just had a letter from the central bank of Ireland and they seem to say that danske are taking heed of customers and agree with their offers to us and finish with......

"The Bank has introduced this additional option following customer feedback and following engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland"

Not looking good if you ask me!

Don't judge the outcome of a race at the start....

The reality is that Danske have altered there position from their original line because they felt they had to. They didn't have a sudden change of mind out of the goodness of their heart and guilt for screwing over their customers.

FYI - I contacted Pepper to ask if the T&Cs were negotiable, personally I'm not happy with them. They don't have clarity here, they're to revert to Dankse and come back tome. Also you have the bear in mind that you are losing of offset effect of the funds you will have in your "current" account (which is now with a different bank) which is servicing your day to day banking cost. Customers should be compensated for same....

Assuming an average balance of €2000 (which between ebs and flows and paying mortgage/bills etc.) is probably conservative, over a 20 year term at current interest rates thats in the ballpark of a couple of grand if offset that we won't see with new "offer".

dolallyoh

Jimpopo wrote: »

Just had a letter from the central bank of Ireland and they seem to say that danske are taking heed of customers and agree with their offers to us and finish with......

"The Bank has introduced this additional option following customer feedback and following engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland"

Not looking good if you ask me!

Just to clarify, this letter was from the Central Bank and not the FSO ?

Jimpopo

dolallyoh wrote: »

Just to clarify, this letter was from the Central Bank and not the FSO ?

Definitely central bank

kennM

dolallyoh wrote: »

Just to clarify, this letter was from the Central Bank and not the FSO ?

Just remember Central Bank and FSO will have completely different remits and interests here. If T&Cs are not negotiable I am very much leaning away from offer and pushing on with FSO process.....

T&Cs very much set Danske up to repeat the process a second time and be perfectly within the new T&Cs to do it. Deck very much stacked in their favour.

Also T&Cs that can't be followed.... for example one stating that we must use internet banking. How? We won't have it... unless they are planning to restrict the once a month and go to the internet banking model which would be better

kennM

Terms and Conditions of new offer are non negotiable.... got onto Pepper, they asked the question and that's the response they got.

Pepper are happy to take any direction questions I may have and pass on accordingly but message is pretty clear that T&Cs are as is.

They are quite different to the original T&Cs that we signed and very much stack the deck in Danske favour second time round with this "offer". I think I know which may my decision is going back to FSO to continue.

kennM

Decision made... no for a number of reasons.... T&Cs (new ones) being a significant factor in decision but a number of other factors.

Informed FSO of decision, on with the complaints process..... best of luck all.

ABC101

kennM wrote: »

Decision made... no for a number of reasons.... T&Cs (new ones) being a significant factor in decision but a number of other factors.

Informed FSO of decision, on with the complaints process..... best of luck all.

Indeed best of luck to you too, however just be cautious you don't incur big legal expenses which could be costly.

IMO, I think the offer is as good as it is going to get, even if it is not perfect, far from perfect in fact.

The rough estimate I put on it, the offer makes sense for those who can maintain a high balance ie 33% at least of the mortgage principle and are comfortable with a max of one withdrawal every 30 days etc

For those with ordinary cash flow day to day banking, I would take the 1% reduction and just concentrate on chipping what I can into the mortgage account to reduce the principle.

But as personal circumstances vary, it is each to their own!!!

kennM

Cheers,

Just a word of caution, do your sums on your individual basis. I've posted a link to spreadsheets on this thread earlier that allows you to do this. I worked out what savings of what they're offering vs what I could offset. New T&Cs are nasty.

No legal bills through FSO. Depending on outcome legal route may be needed

ABC101 wrote: »

Indeed best of luck to you too, however just be cautious you don't incur big legal expenses which could be costly.

IMO, I think the offer is as good as it is going to get, even if it is not perfect, far from perfect in fact.

The rough estimate I put on it, the offer makes sense for those who can maintain a high balance ie 33% at least of the mortgage principle and are comfortable with a max of one withdrawal every 30 days etc

For those with ordinary cash flow day to day banking, I would take the 1% reduction and just concentrate on chipping what I can into the mortgage account to reduce the principle.

But as personal circumstances vary, it is each to their own!!!

yop

kennM wrote: »

Decision made... no for a number of reasons.... T&Cs (new ones) being a significant factor in decision but a number of other factors.

Informed FSO of decision, on with the complaints process..... best of luck all.

Same as you, from our point of view the "offer" is made just to appease the FSO and to try and get us under the new T&C's. Once we were then I guarantee that they will then do the same thing again, this time we wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
T&C's have changed.
Access to account is beyond farcical, paper requests to access our money!
Full new mortgage account application required.
No refund for the losses we have incurred.
No negotiation on the T&C's.

So back to the FSO.

jwrbs

As I am fortunate to be able to have a significant proportion of my mortgage "offset" under this new arrangement I am thinking of accepting, and in fairness the offer sort of accords with one of the solutions I had suggested in my FSO complaint.

However, in accepting I am also saying that I will be continuing to pursue them for the losses that have arisen as a result of their breach of contract (ie the additional interest I have had to pay). I have also informed the FSO that I do not want it to "close" my complaint (as they suggested they would do if I accepted) as the solution does not fully compensate me for my loss.

I would suggest there is a risk of someone in my situation not accepting the offer being told by the FSO in any determination that you were given the ability to mitigate most of your loss by taking up the revised offset offer so we are not going to order them to compensate you for that, and because of the 30 day acceptance period you then don't have an ability to take it up.

I do think that the 30 day offer period is very sneaky. Has anyone tried to have that extended until after FSO determination through either approaching bank or the FSO?

kennM

jwrbs wrote: »

As I am fortunate to be able to have a significant proportion of my mortgage "offset" under this new arrangement I am thinking of accepting, and in fairness the offer sort of accords with one of the solutions I had suggested in my FSO complaint.

However, in accepting I am also saying that I will be continuing to pursue them for the losses that have arisen as a result of their breach of contract (ie the additional interest I have had to pay). I have also informed the FSO that I do not want it to "close" my complaint (as they suggested they would do if I accepted) as the solution does not fully compensate me for my loss.

I would suggest there is a risk of someone in my situation not accepting the offer being told by the FSO in any determination that you were given the ability to mitigate most of your loss by taking up the revised offset offer so we are not going to order them to compensate you for that, and because of the 30 day acceptance period you then don't have an ability to take it up.

I do think that the 30 day offer period is very sneaky. Has anyone tried to have that extended until after FSO determination through either approaching bank or the FSO?

I'm largely in the same boat as you however the revised terms and conditions are unacceptable, some contradictory and some cannot be complied with. I also tabled a number of options and this starts to move towards one of those options however.....

It's certainly a step in the right direction, IMO I'm closer to an acceptable settlement than we were but new T&Cs very much stack the deck in favour of Danske..... they are then in a position to make a second attempt and be within the remit of the new T&Cs.

I'd be a lot more tempted if it was based on original T&Cs and a gesture was made with regards to the interest you're going to lose from the monies that will service your "day to day" banking with another institution which also includes an element of good will for what they have put their customers through unjustly!

Rock Steady Edy

What is regrettable in all of this is that there were no staff (left) at Danske that could have said internally that the original proposal for the Offset mortgage couldn't be done because the T&C said so, and picked them off a electronic drive, instead of having their customers to prove it beyond doubt.

Furthermore, in the way they have behaved, it also seems that they have followed a directive, whether it be lead from Ireland or their head office abroad, to deal with the Irish problem as quickly as possible and to minimise any further loss; no doubt individuals have bonuses if they meet certain targets.

Both Danske and the FSO will want to bring closure as quickly as possible to each case, so if it were me I'd be thinking, from the original T&C, what am I happy to live, with and what can't I live without, and tell them that you will sign as long as those conditions (that you are not prepared to give up) are met, and remind them of the conditions you are giving up in order to bring the matter to a conclusion. As long as you are being practical and reasonable, if they are sensible, they'll snap your hands off.

cathk

Rock Steady Edy wrote: »

What is regrettable in all of this is that there were no staff (left) at Danske that could have said internally that the original proposal for the Offset mortgage couldn't be done because the T&C said so, and picked them off a electronic drive, instead of having their customers to prove it beyond doubt.

Furthermore, in the way they have behaved, it also seems that they have followed a directive, whether it be lead from Ireland or their head office abroad, to deal with the Irish problem as quickly as possible and to minimise any further loss; no doubt individuals have bonuses if they meet certain targets.

Both Danske and the FSO will want to bring closure as quickly as possible to each case, so if it were me I'd be thinking, from the original T&C, what am I happy to live, with and what can't I live without, and tell them that you will sign as long as those conditions (that you are not prepared to give up) are met, and remind them of the conditions you are giving up in order to bring the matter to a conclusion. As long as you are being practical and reasonable, if they are sensible, they'll snap your hands off.

no they won't snap your hands off they will just take your money, this offer is so sneaky and underhand its not even funny, not signing either

kennM

cathk wrote: »

no they won't snap your hands off they will just take your money, this offer is so sneaky and underhand its not even funny, not signing either

Just curious as to what stage others got to with their complaints before Danske' "offer"? We rejected their offer and just got copy of letter that FSO have sent to Danske with regards to our complaint. Have to say I'm pretty impressed with the nature of the requests they have made of Danske & they have factored many elements of our argument for Danske to clarify. I would assume this is when we get the 200+ page response from Danske??? Can others confirm? Suspect that's the case.

I understand we then have a number of days to respond to their response and then FSO begin deliberating I assume?

yop

kennM wrote: »

Just curious as to what stage others got to with their complaints before Danske' "offer"? We rejected their offer and just got copy of letter that FSO have sent to Danske with regards to our complaint. Have to say I'm pretty impressed with the nature of the requests they have made of Danske & they have factored many elements of our argument for Danske to clarify. I would assume this is when we get the 200+ page response from Danske??? Can others confirm? Suspect that's the case.

I understand we then have a number of days to respond to their response and then FSO begin deliberating I assume?

Our complaint is still with the FSO. Danske sent a letter of offer but we are not accepting it as the T&C's are too limiting and the fact its a new mortgage application.
Have heard nothing since from FSO.

kennM

yop wrote: »

Our complaint is still with the FSO. Danske sent a letter of offer but we are not accepting it as the T&C's are too limiting and the fact its a new mortgage application.
Have heard nothing since from FSO.

Completely agree with you, new T&Cs are unacceptable for various reasons. I got letter from FSO yesterday, putting pressure on Danske bank. They have 20 working days to respond.

yop

kennM wrote: »

Completely agree with you, new T&Cs are unacceptable for various reasons. I got letter from FSO yesterday, putting pressure on Danske bank. They have 20 working days to respond.

Go way, what sort of pressure do you mind me asking, I THINK I am a week or 2 behind you.

What is really pi**ing me off, I did a transfer from my business account they are closing them too, and I did it on the 20th, but it still hasn't hit my account and I can't get into the online version of it!! Danske don't know where its gone to!! !:mad::mad::mad:

kennM

yop wrote: »

Go way, what sort of pressure do you mind me asking, I THINK I am a week or 2 behind you.

What is really pi**ing me off, I did a transfer from my business account they are closing them too, and I did it on the 20th, but it still hasn't hit my account and I can't get into the online version of it!! Danske don't know where its gone to!! !:mad::mad::mad:

Plenty of awkward questions for Danske to answer, I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of it and trying to put together a response.... I'll be going through their response to check and ensure they are all covered off.

Jimpopo

One query I'd have if I were to take up this offer ( which I won't be doing under any circumstances) is, does the money I'm going to put on deposit ( with an institution who can't get out of here quickly enough) go into a pepper account or a danske account and if so are either going to be covered under the Deposit guarantee scheme???

yop

Jimpopo wrote: »

One query I'd have if I were to take up this offer ( which I won't be doing under any circumstances) is, does the money I'm going to put on deposit ( with an institution who can't get out of here quickly enough) go into a pepper account or a danske account and if so are either going to be covered under the Deposit guarantee scheme???

From what I am aware and I open to correction, Dankse will have the money as they have the mortgage, of course until they sell the Mortgage book.
Pepper are only the CS side of Danske.