Danske bank to close retail customer accounts

stiofanD

I don't (I wasn't great at filing away the documentation!), but the mortgage was drawn down in 2005, so its quite likely

yop

stiofanD wrote: »

I don't (I wasn't great at filing away the documentation!), but the mortgage was drawn down in 2005, so its quite likely

V interesting. They did claim, which was shown to be a lie, that they stopped sending them out in early 2006.

dolallyoh

stiofanD wrote: »

I don't (I wasn't great at filing away the documentation!), but the mortgage was drawn down in 2005, so its quite likely

Chances are you have one so. Good update thanks.

Jimpopo

This is a very interesting situation as we wrote to DB to try and engage directly at the time of formally complaining to the FSO and we we're told in no uncertain terms that they would not comment until the FSO had made it's decision!
It's unfair and a contradiction of their previous stance to give a 30 day timeframe in this instance. As far as we're concerned they need to reinstate fully with all the bells and whistles of the product they sold us with a guarantee that they won't threaten to swan off again when the waters get choppy ( which I can guarantee they won't agree to).

We no longer trust them, so, we will be advising them that they can stuff their 30 days where the sun doesn't shine and we'll soldier on til the FSO makes a decision and we'll take it from there ....

kennM

posiedon_regs wrote: »

Thanks to customer feedback (presumably they mean legal action) and engagement of the Central Bank, the Bank has directly written out to offset customers offering 2 options:
1) Open a new offset account with limited functionality and return to April's interest rate (i.e. present rate + 1%). Only one withdrawal is allowed every 30 days;
or
2) Continue with the status quo (i.e. present rate and no offset).
Customers are given 30 days from the date of offer to reply otherwise option 2) is considered the default!

My thoughts are:
- The Bank offer does NOT offer compensation for the loss of offset over the last 3 months;
- The Bank offers no compensation for all of the work required in forcing them to act within the Law;
- The new offset account offers limited liquidity in comparison to the original contract with only one withdrawal permitted per month;
- Even though the FSO adjudication is ongoing, the Bank has decided to circumvent the FSO and impose an arbitrary, effectively three week window in which to decide to take up their offer despite their refusal to offset accounts in their FINAL response letter to FSO complainants.

On the positive side, it means that the Bank realise that they have no case. If a complainant to the FSO now does nothing, it may be the case that this offer will have no bearing on the adjudication which is likely to be at least as favorable as the Bank's latest offer. The Bank's latest offer seems to be to following the classic strategy of splitting your opposition.

It would be interesting to know who received this offer. Is it just the first tranche of FSO complainants (Robbe et al), all FSO complainants or all offset mortgage holders?

I would suspect that Danske bank know that it's not going to go favourably for them and as such they are starting to revise their position. Just like any insurance company negotiating a settlement this is the latest offer on the table, will the FOS offer better? Will they be compelled to..... really depends, do what's right for you!

dolallyoh

Ok read my letter, as reported its 1% or sign up to a new offset product.

You can only take out money once every 30 days.

To get the money out it appears you have to download a form from Danske website, then snail mail it to Pepper asking can you have the money.

Appears to be no online access.

Clear statement in T&C saying they can't/ won't terminate the account unless you break one of the usual terms eg not paying. To my mind this is a replication of the side letter statement and further confirmation that this paragraph is where the battle was lost / won.

No mention of recompense for the additional costs involved since they terminated the offset.

So for me - it is a waste of time apart from clear evidence that they are on a hiding to nothing here.

I will be informing the FSO and null pointing this effort.

DorDee

Got same "interesting"offer today..
Will notify Ombudsman and seek advice..
In final stages of investigation and have side letter from Aug 2008...

kennM

DorDee wrote: »

Got same "interesting"offer today..
Will notify Ombudsman and seek advice..
In final stages of investigation and have side letter from Aug 2008...

Got letter also... no side letter, complaint in with FSO... not in the first tranche of complaints either. I'd say all offsets are being offered.

They aren't making that offer out of generosity. I suspect they are aware they haven't got a defensible position and are offering to minimise damage..... in two minds myself at the moment.

yop

Got ours also, while its "great" to get the offer, its not a runner, the process of withdrawl is much too time consuming and restrictive. I will be sending this onto the FSO and contacting Danske rejecting their offer. "Come again".

kennM

yop wrote: »

Got ours also, while its "great" to get the offer, its not a runner, the process of withdrawl is much too time consuming and restrictive. I will be sending this onto the FSO and contacting Danske rejecting their offer. "Come again".

I think it demonstrates a step in the right direction.... you can be 100% sure that they are only taking this step as their hand is being forced. It still presents an erosion of the terms and conditions we signed up to: No internet banking, no day to day banking capabilities (Direct debits, standing orders, ATM, etc) so you're going to lose the capability of offset all your monies as you'll need to do day to day banking with another institution, poor liquidity with 1 withdrawal every 30 days, I'm also sceptical in the fact that they have produced & supplied a set of terms and conditions with the opening..... I would assume the deck has been stacked in their favour here and there will be a "gotcha" or two in there to support Danske in the future in some way. Don't have them to hand here but it'd be interesting to see if that term that they quoted in defence of their position is in there.... i.e. they are offering the carrot and we end up signing up to T&Cs which puts the stick in their hand.

It's a movement in the right direction, in my view that's as much as it is.... is it a final position. Time will tell, I suspect it isn't.

Everyone needs to make informed decisions here...... stick with it! people power is winning this.

robbe

kennM wrote: »

I think it demonstrates a step in the right direction.... you can be 100% sure that they are only taking this step as their hand is being forced. It still presents an erosion of the terms and conditions we signed up to: No internet banking, no day to day banking capabilities (Direct debits, standing orders, ATM, etc) so you're going to lose the capability of offset all your monies as you'll need to do day to day banking with another institution, poor liquidity with 1 withdrawal every 30 days, I'm also sceptical in the fact that they have produced & supplied a set of terms and conditions with the opening..... I would assume the deck has been stacked in their favour here and there will be a "gotcha" or two in there to support Danske in the future in some way. Don't have them to hand here but it'd be interesting to see if that term that they quoted in defence of their position is in there.... i.e. they are offering the carrot and we end up signing up to T&Cs which puts the stick in their hand.

It's a movement in the right direction, in my view that's as much as it is.... is it a final position. Time will tell, I suspect it isn't.

Everyone needs to make informed decisions here...... stick with it! people power is winning this.

Given their previous with unilaterally amending terms and conditions I'd be inclined to agree with you.....these are the terms and conditions but we we reserve the right to change any of them any if we put a notice in the newspaper you are deemed to have accepted them!

I didn't receive anything nor have I heard anything from the FSO in the last 3 weeks - should be due something in the coming weeks but given the attitude of Danske in their response to the points raised by the complaint to the FSO this offer by them can only have been made out of necessity rather than a newly discovered benevolent streak.

The tone of their response was unreal - they characterised a requirement to provide the offsetting account as 'onerous'!! If this was their stated attitude 3 weeks ago I'd make sure that what anyone who chooses this option is signing up to cannot be taken away as previously happened.

yop

robbe wrote: »

Given their previous with unilaterally amending terms and conditions I'd be inclined to agree with you.....these are the terms and conditions but we we reserve the right to change any of them any if we put a notice in the newspaper you are deemed to have accepted them!

I didn't receive anything nor have I heard anything from the FSO in the last 3 weeks - should be due something in the coming weeks but given the attitude of Danske in their response to the points raised by the complaint to the FSO this offer by them can only have been made out of necessity rather than a newly discovered benevolent streak.

The tone of their response was unreal - they characterised a requirement to provide the offsetting account as 'onerous'!! If this was their stated attitude 3 weeks ago I'd make sure that what anyone who chooses this option is signing up to cannot be taken away as previously happened.

Make sure you make contact with the FSO about this. They need to react now and get a ruling within the 30 days.
They have our reply now over 30 days so should be coming back on it.

kennM

yop wrote: »

Make sure you make contact with the FSO about this. They need to react now and get a ruling within the 30 days.
They have our reply now over 30 days so should be coming back on it.

I pinged on this update to the FSO this morning.... flagging various concerns and seeking some clarifications.

dolallyoh

The response from Danske came outside the FSO process.

I am struggling to understand how it would be deemed ok to use the pony express for modern day financial transactions. I am not sure I even know where my nearest post office is, how much is a stamp ? :rolleyes:

yop

dolallyoh wrote: »

The response from Danske came outside the FSO process.

I am struggling to understand how it would be deemed ok to use the pony express for modern day financial transactions. I am not sure I even know where my nearest post office is, how much is a stamp ? :rolleyes:

They have been given a heads up by the FSO without a doubt, why exactly they have decided to roll back, I am not sure. Maybe they totted up all the estimated compensation and realized there was a nice few quid, so that if they offer the offset again, make it as hard as possible to maintain it from our point of view, that the take up would be small and the offset gain would be less than the potential compensation.

Twas Not

dolallyoh wrote: »

The response from Danske came outside the FSO process.

I am struggling to understand how it would be deemed ok to use the pony express for modern day financial transactions. I am not sure I even know where my nearest post office is, how much is a stamp ? :rolleyes:

Have ye notified the journos of latest developments. May make an interesting story

dolallyoh

Twas Not wrote: »

Have ye notified the journos of latest developments. May make an interesting story

They were useless the first time around, I wouldn't bother tbh. I'd also add that the FSO have been great. :thumbsup:

yop

Twas Not wrote: »

Have ye notified the journos of latest developments. May make an interesting story

Yip, Ian Guider carried it, though it be at around 6.30 am
Independent weren't great, she put it in as a story!

I must update the facebook group to see who else got the offer.

kennM

*** BE WARNED *** Read the general terms and conditions along with the special terms and conditions of new "offer". If T&Cs are non negotiable I'll be saying no and waiting for FSO to complete. They've very much stacked the deck in their favor, particularly around general T&Cs..... read them carefully

ABC101

All interesting stuff.... However I have another take on de situation.


Danske are withdrawing from Retail and Business banking, just concentrating on corporate finance etc.

If Danske Bank have returned their license to operate here for retail banking... Then it is never going to happen that all us Offset mortgage holders are going to go back to normal banking as it was previously.

They are not going to issue a new Laser / Debit card, Credit card or cheque book etc. due to the fact that they have already told the CB that they are out of Ireland.

I wonder does a bank have to pay a license fee to the Central Bank to hold a license to operate here, like a Taxi driver etc? Anybody know?

So this would put Danske in a rather unusual position, the FSO can say Danske have to honour de terms of the Offset mortgage holders, but Danske may not be able to comply as the license has been handed back to the CEntral Bank.

We live in interesting times!!!

makeorbrake

ABC101 wrote: »

So this would put Danske in a rather unusual position, the FSO can say Danske have to honour de terms of the Offset mortgage holders, but Danske may not be able to comply as the license has been handed back to the CEntral Bank.

We live in interesting times!!!

Time for them to sell off their complete mortgage book then and have done with it!

yop

makeorbrake wrote: »

Time for them to sell off their complete mortgage book then and have done with it!

Thats well down the line and happening.

dolallyoh

This saga will make that a very difficult thing to achieve, if we get a judgement against them then it could well backfire big time on their coffers.

DorDee

Notified FSO of offer. Response to effect FSO are pleased if parties resolve dispute themselves and their investigation will only recommences if we notify them we have rejected offer. What to do !!

Checked danske webpage yesterday and couldn't find withdrawal form referred to in offset offer letter.
Contacted Pepper and they knew nothing about offer.
I sent them copy and they called today with a FAQ sheet just provided by danske which did not give any details re mechanics of withdrawing funds. They are to get back to Danske and revert..

ABC101

Letter just arrived for me as well!!!

It's like old times, when I'd walk in the door and there was a pile of stuff from Danske.

I will carefully read what's in it, not sure if I'll take up de offer.

Devil is in de detail as they say!!!

kennM

ABC101 wrote: »

Letter just arrived for me as well!!!

It's like old times, when I'd walk in the door and there was a pile of stuff from Danske.

I will carefully read what's in it, not sure if I'll take up de offer.

Devil is in de detail as they say!!!

Have a good run through the t&cs, I don't like a number of them.... perhaps trying to srt themselves up for an easier bail a short distance down the line with more favourable t&cs for them.

yop

DorDee wrote: »

Notified FSO of offer. Response to effect FSO are pleased if parties resolve dispute themselves and their investigation will only recommences if we notify them we have rejected offer. What to do !!

Checked danske webpage yesterday and couldn't find withdrawal form referred to in offset offer letter.
Contacted Pepper and they knew nothing about offer.
I sent them copy and they called today with a FAQ sheet just provided by danske which did not give any details re mechanics of withdrawing funds. They are to get back to Danske and revert..

Ok great, I'm waiting back from them. So the investigation is on hold now until you make a decision?

kennM wrote: »

Have a good run through the t&cs, I don't like a number of them.... perhaps trying to srt themselves up for an easier bail a short distance down the line with more favourable t&cs for them.

I've yet to have a chance to read them in full detail, is there any points which scream "avoid" at you which others mightn't spot?

I'm leaning towards rejecting their offer as its not the same as we had and very limited. In this day of online banking and immediate access to funds, especially how we can still login and view our mortgage account, why can't we have the same access as previously?
I think its only a token gesture, get us to sign, then shaft us again in a few months.

dolallyoh

My interpretation is we legally (at a large cost to us re: solicitor etc) signed up to 1 set of T and C for the duration of the term. No need to sign up for another.

yop

dolallyoh wrote: »

My interpretation is we legally (at a large cost to us re: solicitor etc) signed up to 1 set of T and C for the duration of the term. No need to sign up for another.

Thats it exactly and the new T&C's, to suit them, are now much different to the original.
I think our argument is, reinstated the original Offset product with linked account(s) on the original T&C's at the rate +1% with full access and then we will walk away, otherwise you broke the contract and have proven you did.

posiedon_regs

dolallyoh wrote: »

My interpretation is we legally (at a large cost to us re: solicitor etc) signed up to 1 set of T and C for the duration of the term. No need to sign up for another.

I agree. What documentation defines this new mortgage contract? Is it the original facilities letter plus the new account T&Cs? What about the original T&Cs?

This is now undefined since the Bank is taking one mortgage and splitting it into two running in parallel - one for option1 at April's interest rate and another at a lower interest rate. Business is much easier if one ignores contract law altogether!