Question About unfair Irish Rail fine

Dravokivich

n97 mini wrote: »

Whatever way, if you've paid the cost of the ticket and you're allowed to continue to your destination it pretty much amounts to having sold you a ticket.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.

If they do not add the price of the required fare, 100euro as a fixed penalty is somewhat devalued as a fine, if it's applicable to the entire network on Irish Rail.

Looking up online I see a fare from Cork to Dublin for today is €43.99. If it's not added on top of the €100 fixed penalty, it means the fine is only essentially €56.

LXFlyer

Are we not once again just dealing in extreme semantics here?

If someone doesn't pay the correct fare, they are liable for the balance due on that fare plus a fine of €100.

n97 mini

The question is are they selling you a ticket as well as giving you a €100 fine? This is in response to the claim that they can only give fines not tickets, which does not appear to be true.

As they are charging for a ticket and allowing you to travel, they have materially sold a ticket.

Losty Dublin

n97 mini wrote: »

The question is are they selling you a ticket as well as giving you a €100 fine? This is in response to the claim that they can only give fines not tickets, which does not appear to be true.

As they are charging for a ticket and allowing you to travel, they have materially sold a ticket.

When you are given a fixed penalty fare for alleged fare evasion, the total amount due is €100 and the correct fare in question. They are not selling you anything nor are they issuing any fines to anybody.

Baron Kurtz

sonny jim bob jones wrote: »

Would throwing people off the moving train be a deterrent?

Ha. I'd be all for that one!

NuMarvel

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

Ha. I'd be all for that one!

Ah, cop on.

It's bad enough the trains are delayed because of leaves on the tracks. Can you imagine the bedlam that'll ensue because of fare-evaders on the tracks?? :P

corktina

IE have a special Sandite unit for dealing with squashed fare-evaders.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, because the current system is such a deterrent, yeah right, if irish rail are happy with it thats fine, its no skin of my nose at the end of the day

I said the same thing when i was giving out about circumcisions in a different thread .

cdebru

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, because the current system is such a deterrent, yeah right, if irish rail are happy with it thats fine, its no skin of my nose at the end of the day

The problem is that the current system is not enforced enough, that is all. it is only really a deterrent if you believe that there is a good chance you will be caught.

Putting people off the train, or bus is no deterrent, charging double the fare is no deterrent. A €100 fine is a deterrent but you just have to make people believe there is a very high chance they will be caught.

end of the road

cdebru wrote: »

The problem is that the current system is not enforced enough, that is all. it is only really a deterrent if you believe that there is a good chance you will be caught.

Putting people off the train, or bus is no deterrent, charging double the fare is no deterrent. A €100 fine is a deterrent but you just have to make people believe there is a very high chance they will be caught.

which for that to happen would mean an inspector on every train at all times of day which isn't going to happen

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Acciaccatura

Putting people off the train will do more harm than good, IMO. It would only lead to delayed trains (assuming the revenue protection unit are not allowed use any kind of force with particularly ignorant passengers who are adamant they stay on, you'd have a hard job removing them, causing hellish disruption), disgruntled passengers and a load of complaints to Iarnród Éireann. The fine system at the minute is grand, and as someone who gets the train from Drogheda to Dublin and back every weekday, I've noticed a significant increase in the amount of inspectors (the Luas too, for that matter), particularly at Rush and Lusk, probably because one of the platforms has no barrier. OP, while it's unfortunate that you were already on the train when you found out there'd be no lift at Donabate, technically you were not entitled to a train journey between Donabate and Drogheda because you didn't pay (regardless of your intentions to pay at Drogheda), that's the way the train system works, so now you pay the remaining ticket balance plus 100 quid to warn you not to do it again. Iarnród Éireann are as cold as their rails

cdebru

end of the road wrote: »

which for that to happen would mean an inspector on every train at all times of day which isn't going to happen

No it doesn't it means regular checks across the network, it also means concentrating on where evasion is highest rather than taking the easy option of checking where there is unlikely to be any major hassle.

Once you do it and have a no nonsense policy people will realise it is cheaper and easier just to pay the fare all you have to do is make people believe it is more likely they will be caught than not. Currently people feel it is highly unlikely they will be caught.

Mondobongo

Has anyone ever had a successful appeal? I did buy the correct ticket, went through the barriers but stupidly must have dropped it while waiting for the train. The guy collecting told me that since I bought it in the station I should be on CCTV, and that this would help my case. Sent my appeal and I'm waiting to hear back but should I just prepare to pay the 104 euro fine?

Hilly Bill

Mondobongo wrote: »

Has anyone ever had a successful appeal? I did buy the correct ticket, went through the barriers but stupidly must have dropped it while waiting for the train. The guy collecting told me that since I bought it in the station I should be on CCTV, and that this would help my case. Sent my appeal and I'm waiting to hear back but should I just prepare to pay the 104 euro fine?

Yes ,since you didnt have the ticket on you when asked.

corktina

you see, what IE will say is that you may have passed the ticket to someone else to use. Proof that you bought it is not of any use to you.

amdublin

Unfortunately I doubt they'll look through CCTV or provide it to you. (and why should they?)

Responsibility is to produce ticket when asked, not say oh you'll find me in the CCTV.

Sorry