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Question About unfair Irish Rail fine

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2

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    #32
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    it's a great deterrent. Throwing them off will do nothing.


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    #33
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    corktina wrote: »
    it's a great deterrent.
    yeah, right, when we have no fair avaiders come back to me

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #34
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, right, when we have no fair avaiders come back to me

    I've been seeing them a lot more frequently on the Maynooth line, so it seems they are really driving for fines to be handed out and to be seen to do so.

    Previously you'd only see'em every 3/4 months. Now it's every 3/4 days.


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    #35
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    The punishment doesn't fit the crime, IMHO.

    Fine them double the single fare, which is what they do in the UK.


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    #36
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    corktina wrote: »
    they couldn't. They can't sell tickets.

    OP was given a €100 fine and a €13 ticket, was he not?


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    #37
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    n97 mini wrote: »
    OP was given a €100 fine and a €13 ticket, was he not?

    The fine is "the fare + 100euro." No ticket is issued.


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    #38
    Dublinfan
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Dublinfan


    was talking to the rp and they said i have a strong appeal so hopefully, this has really turned me off irishrail though think ill stick to the bus from now on cheaper and alot more helpful and friendly


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    #39
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The punishment doesn't fit the crime, IMHO.

    Fine them double the single fare, which is what they do in the UK.

    Change traveling for zero or chance it for maybe double €1.65, the lowest commuter/suburban rail fare. That's no deterrent, whatever you feel about the €100 standard fare.


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    #40
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dublinfan wrote: »
    was talking to the rp and they said i have a strong appeal so hopefully, this has really turned me off irishrail though think ill stick to the bus from now on cheaper and alot more helpful and friendly

    FYI
    The bus also requires you to pay for a ticket that covers your entire journey.
    You'll find all public transport is this same in this regard; you are expected to pay for *all* of your journey, not just when you get caught.


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    #41
    Dublinfan
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Dublinfan


    GreeBo wrote: »
    FYI
    The bus also requires you to pay for a ticket that covers your entire journey.
    You'll find all public transport is this same in this regard; you are expected to pay for *all* of your journey, not just when you get caught.

    yes i know they do but if this ever happened i could pay extra at the top of the bus... iv never seen them treat people as bad..


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    #42
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dublinfan wrote: »
    yes i know they do but if this ever happened i could pay extra at the top of the bus... iv never seen them treat people as bad..

    Also shops....shops like you to pay for all your items, not just when you get caught trying to leave without paying for them all.

    In fact, yeah, pretty much everything in life you are expected to pay for...mad.


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    #43
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Dublinfan wrote: »
    yes i know they do but if this ever happened i could pay extra at the top of the bus... iv never seen them treat people as bad..

    I don't care how they treat fare evaders, whether it be on the train or the bus.... so long as they catch as many as possible


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    #44
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Dublinfan wrote: »
    was talking to the rp and they said i have a strong appeal so hopefully, this has really turned me off irishrail though think ill stick to the bus from now on cheaper and alot more helpful and friendly
    What are you going to do if you get caught doing the same on the bus? It was your own fault so their is no point giving out.


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    #45
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    What are you going to do if you get caught doing the same on the bus? .

    Probably open a thread on here complaining about unfair treatment and fine by a bus company
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #46
    sonny jim bob jones
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 175 ✭✭sonny jim bob jones


    Would throwing people off the moving train be a deterrent?


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    #47
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    end of the road wrote: »
    irish rail are wasting their time with this policy of charging people 100 euro or more for avoiding tickets and so on, while a good system in theory it just isn't working and is creating bad will and losing the company customers, just throw people off the next stop instead, still its a small source of revenue so their not going to throw it away

    Its working fine (no pun intended ). They are not customers if they are not paying in the first place.


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    #48
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Dublinfan wrote: »
    was talking to the rp and they said i have a strong appeal so hopefully, this has really turned me off irishrail though think ill stick to the bus from now on cheaper and alot more helpful and friendly

    Has it turned you off the person that was meant to pick you up and who costed you the fine?


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    #49
    MarkR
    Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    Dublinfan wrote: »
    was talking to the rp and they said i have a strong appeal so hopefully, this has really turned me off irishrail though think ill stick to the bus from now on cheaper and alot more helpful and friendly

    What's a rp?


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    #50
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Change traveling for zero or chance it for maybe double €1.65, the lowest commuter/suburban rail fare. That's no deterrent, whatever you feel about the €100 standard fare.

    There is a minimum. I think for NIR it's £20.


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    #51
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The fine is "the fare + 100euro." No ticket is issued.
    They charge the cost of the ticket, and allow you to continue to your destination. That materially amounts to a ticket.

    Edit, in S.I. No. 576 of 2006, the fine is €100. No mention of any other fee.


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    #52
    flyingsnail
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭flyingsnail


    n97 mini wrote: »
    They charge the cost of the ticket, and allow you to continue to your destination. That materially amounts to a ticket.

    Edit, in S.I. No. 576 of 2006, the fine is €100. No mention of any other fee.

    Section 132-4
    (5) The liability of an offender to a penalty under this section does not prejudice the recovery of any fare payable by him or her.


    So I presume it was the fine plus the fare


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    #53
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    end of the road wrote: »
    irish rail are wasting their time with this policy of charging people 100 euro or more for avoiding tickets and so on, while a good system in theory it just isn't working and is creating bad will and losing the company customers, just throw people off the next stop instead, still its a small source of revenue so their not going to throw it away

    To be effective, inspectors would have be escort evaders past the barriers and then re-board the train, thereby delaying the train.

    The alternative is to leave evaders on the platform, meaning they can just hop on the next train. While that's an inconvenience, it isn't likely to be a deterrent.


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    #54
    dk1345
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭dk1345


    what if the ticket inspectors didn't board the train and you got to your destination would yo have paid the full fair then i doubt it very much:rolleyes:


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    #55
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    To be effective, inspectors would have be escort evaders past the barriers and then re-board the train, thereby delaying the train.
    The alternative is to leave evaders on the platform, meaning they can just hop on the next train.
    While that's an inconvenience, it isn't likely to be a deterrent.
    yeah, because the current system is such a deterrent, yeah right, if irish rail are happy with it thats fine, its no skin of my nose at the end of the day

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #56
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users Posts: 5,240 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah, because the current system is such a deterrent, yeah right, if irish rail are happy with it thats fine, its no skin of my nose at the end of the day
    I'd imagine it's more of a deterrent than simply kicking people off at the next stop; if that was the only sanction why would anyone bother to buy a ticket beyond not wanting the hassle of waiting for the next train?


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    #57
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    n97 mini wrote: »
    They charge the cost of the ticket, and allow you to continue to your destination. That materially amounts to a ticket.

    Edit, in S.I. No. 576 of 2006, the fine is €100. No mention of any other fee.

    According to the following link displayed on their fares page, http://www.irishrail.ie/media/FixedPenaltyDLLeaflet1.pdf

    As I mentioned it's;
    4. HOW MUCH IS THE FIXED PENALTY NOTICE?
    If you board a service without a valid ticket, at a station
    where a ticket selling facility was provided, you will be
    issued a fixed penalty notice.
    The Penalty is €100 plus the unpaid fare due.

    Nothing about being issued with a ticket, to continue passage.


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    #58
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Saw that leaflet. It's an interpretation of the SI, albeit a not quite accurate one.

    The SI is the law, and it says €100, with no mention of any entitlement to complete the journey. Any extra is being tacked on by IE staff, which materially constitutes a the ticket required to complete the journey.


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    #59
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Would they not be liable to pay the fare in the first instance like everyone else?

    I would read it as they are recouping the money that was not paid in the first instance, which would remain due, and then applying a fixed penalty notice.


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    #60
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Whatever way, if you've paid the cost of the ticket and you're allowed to continue to your destination it pretty much amounts to having sold you a ticket.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.


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    #61
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Would they not be liable to pay the fare in the first instance like everyone else?

    I would read it as they are recouping the money that was not paid in the first instance, which would remain due, and then applying a fixed penalty notice.

    This is correct. Section 132 of the Railway Safety Act covers this and it refers to a requirement to pay for your valid ticket along with a fixed penalty fare.


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