More Speed Limits for Bikes

Cookie_Monster

Spook_ie wrote: »

Really, you do surprise me I wouldn't have thought many people would prefer to walk in the middle of the road, no accounting for some people though eh?

there sure isn't...

CramCycle

No Pants wrote: »

I beg to differ. I see pedestrians walking out in the road all the time, frequently with their back to oncoming traffic.

I had a guy walking along the cycle track on the way home last night, in the pitch black, there was an empty footpad and road either side of him. Gardai past by and indicated to him that he should get on the footpath for his own safety.

SilverLiningOK

Reading through this and related threads seems to raise an interesting theme - cycling as sport versus cycling as transport.

I think the only reason that many roadies uses this Clontarf track is that it has a better surface for speed when compared to the road. Other people cycling will have different needs such as keeping away from busy road, cycling with children etc.

One of the main obstacles to people choosing cycling as transport in the English speaking world is one of the perceived image of those who cycle (see cycle chic and copehagenize for more on this). People who dont cycle see lycra, helmets, high viz, safety glasses and other special equipment as a barrier. In other places not too far away choosing your bicycle as everyday transport for work, school, shopping and socialising in everyday ordinary clothes is the norm.

Another important barrier to normalised cycling is the infrastructure available up to recently. Routes like the on the Clontarf Road, Sutton, Grand Canal etc. may not perfect but they are a major factor in attracting more people to transport cycling.

I see the various potential conflicts in Clontarf regularly particularly on weekends. A bit of give and take and common sense all around would do no harm here. It is such a pleasure cycling at a relaxed pace with fresh air and the sea views. If people think that they are riding the bike equivalent of BMW/Merc then they shoud look around them and cycle at a speed according to the conditions taking into account the other people on their bicycles who are not members of the roadie tribe.

This whole speed limit business must have some gripe or complaint behind it. It seemed to come out of the blue last week. Was it on Liveline ? Or was it somebody working for independent newspapers who has a personal issue here ?

le petit braquet

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not intimately but from these images where would you prefer to walk?

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.379062,-6.156847&spn=0.000517,0.001206&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.379062,-6.156847&panoid=z20xVUFTY6aMfkVvaYdUzQ&cbp=12,203.97,,0,-6.31&z=20

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.377592,-6.159676&spn=0.000517,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=53.377592,-6.159676&panoid=2p5FOTMeuO2VnaxsC4z7bg&cbp=12,113.97,,0,-6.31

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.374871,-6.163539&spn=0.00208,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.374674,-6.163802&panoid=JOSN3b56m3uLYLQY6GL-JQ&cbp=12,184.28,,0,-8.41

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.360739,-6.182567&spn=0.001034,0.002411&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.360688,-6.182701&panoid=RHGO0bZZJBTLoLlV18wMtA&cbp=12,233.58,,0,1.9&z=19

I think your choice of images illustrates your lack of familiarity with the area.

In the first three links if you look towards the sea you will see a path with a solid white line. The white line is the cut-off between the pedestrian walkway which is nearest the sea and the cycle lane which is landward. So pedestrians are being given the "nicest" view, but as you can see from the other posts, they wander across the white line, let dogs on extender leads wander in etc.

If you look at the fourth link then there is a completely separate path seaward (if that's a term) of the cycle lane. Again pedestrians get the nicer view but still some want to walk/jog on the cycle path.

Jawgap

I'm not sure how there could be any conflict.....

.....there is a track for cyclists and paths for pedestrians, joggers, dog walkers etc.

.....each is clearly sign posted, marked and delineated

.....there are clearly marked points at which people can cross the cycle track to get to the grassed areas and the path

.....if people simply stuck to the fairly simple rules (something they seem incapable of) then there'd be no conflict.

I'm not sure why anyone walking or running would want to use the cycle track anyway - it 's closer to the traffic and further from the sea! If the City Council want to swap them around so I can cycle right beside the sea, then I'm all for it.

The issue came about because someone fired the starting gun on the local election campaign.

BTW, this 'roadie tribe' who are they and who is their chief

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not intimately but from these images where would you prefer to walk?

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.379062,-6.156847&spn=0.000517,0.001206&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.379062,-6.156847&panoid=z20xVUFTY6aMfkVvaYdUzQ&cbp=12,203.97,,0,-6.31&z=20

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.377592,-6.159676&spn=0.000517,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=53.377592,-6.159676&panoid=2p5FOTMeuO2VnaxsC4z7bg&cbp=12,113.97,,0,-6.31

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.374871,-6.163539&spn=0.00208,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.374674,-6.163802&panoid=JOSN3b56m3uLYLQY6GL-JQ&cbp=12,184.28,,0,-8.41

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.360739,-6.182567&spn=0.001034,0.002411&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.360688,-6.182701&panoid=RHGO0bZZJBTLoLlV18wMtA&cbp=12,233.58,,0,1.9&z=19

only the last image is of the Promenade to which the proposal applies and runners have three options - the path running along side the road, the cycle track or the path running by the sea.

I know which one I'd choose if I was running or walking.

SilverLiningOK

Jawgap wrote: »

The issue came about because someone fired the starting gun on the local election campaign.

That could work both ways. Do candidates not know that people who vote can also cycle ? They are not mutually exclusive. Demanding from candidates their views on cycling issues such as cycle infrastructure plans, road of the road, bye laws to protect those cycling and general space for cyclng, might not be such a bad idea.

People who choose the bicycle can also lobby either as individuals or through organistions such as the Dublin Cycling Campaign. Making cycling an election issue as a cost effective solution to alleviate urban traffic congestion is surely a good idea.

Jawgap

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

That could work both ways. Do candidates not know that people who vote can also cycle ? They are not mutually exclusive. Demanding from candidates their views on cycling issues such as cycle infrastructure plans, road of the road, bye laws to protect those cycling and general space for cyclng, might not be such a bad idea.

People who choose the bicycle can also lobby either as individuals or through organistions such as the Dublin Cycling Campaign. Making cycling an election issue as a cost effective solution to alleviate urban traffic congestion is surely a good idea.

You're approaching this rationally!!

It's the local elections - the candidates will respond to whoever is shrieking the loudest, then they'll try to outdo each other in the rhetoric stakes. They're also not interested in who might vote but in who is most likely to vote.

You're ideas are sound and pragmatic, but is sound and pragmatic were the watchwords of Irish political life then you wouldn't get this......

LOLLYPOP LADIES BACK MCGRATH ON CYCLISTS

SilverLiningOK

Jawgap wrote: »

You're approaching this rationally!!

It's the local elections - the candidates will respond to whoever is shrieking the loudest, then they'll try to outdo each other in the rhetoric stakes. They're also not interested in who might vote but in who is most likely to vote.

You're ideas are sound and pragmatic, but is sound and pragmatic were the watchwords of Irish political life then you wouldn't get this......

LOLLYPOP LADIES BACK MCGRATH ON CYCLISTS

Taking all the madness that go into elections in Ireland, its still worth doing. Other lobbies such as road hauliers, motorists associations, businesses etc. are already working up front and behind the scenes to effectively reduce the numbers of people cycling by using various fear tactics. Groups such as these may have large financial resources and media access, but why not hear it from the cyclists as well.

Finian is really testing me to move my vote elsewhere away from him and his merry band. He will of course shout his usual "party man/woman" when challenged.

Another important major obstacle to improving cycling infrastructure is lack of political will. If the candidates hear it on the doorsteps it might register. The anti cycling views seem to get far more attention than the other side. They seem to think that they are more important voters ?

lennymc

will anyone raise this as an issue at the ci agm this year?
Actually, will anyone attend the ci agm this year?

Lusk_Doyle

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not intimately but from these images where would you prefer to walk?

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.379062,-6.156847&spn=0.000517,0.001206&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.379062,-6.156847&panoid=z20xVUFTY6aMfkVvaYdUzQ&cbp=12,203.97,,0,-6.31&z=20

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.377592,-6.159676&spn=0.000517,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=53.377592,-6.159676&panoid=2p5FOTMeuO2VnaxsC4z7bg&cbp=12,113.97,,0,-6.31

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.374871,-6.163539&spn=0.00208,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.374674,-6.163802&panoid=JOSN3b56m3uLYLQY6GL-JQ&cbp=12,184.28,,0,-8.41

https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.360739,-6.182567&spn=0.001034,0.002411&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.360688,-6.182701&panoid=RHGO0bZZJBTLoLlV18wMtA&cbp=12,233.58,,0,1.9&z=19

If you don't know the area, which you clearly don't then you should leave the debate. In all of those photos the pedestrian path is the one furthest away from the road. That there happens to be another one nearer the road also is of no consequence and should make it totally clear and unacceptable for a ped to chose the middle located cycle track.

Dermot Illogical

To level the playing field somewhat, I have made a simple image showing the layout of the area in question.
It's not to OS standards, but should give an idea.

laraghrider

micar wrote: »

I despise having to cycle on the road between the bridges going to over to dollymount. The cycle lanes heading northwards is a disgrace. I had my worse accident there when the tires when into a groove and i have jump the bike out. Had no time to clip out and the bike went in against the curb and flipped me over.

That took me clean off the bike a couple of weeks back. Front wheel went into a groove and jumped sideways. Next time I'm heading face first into the deck. Ripped the sidwall of my tyre as well.

Dermot Illogical

laraghrider wrote: »

That took me clean off the bike a couple of weeks back. Front wheel went into a groove and jumped sideways. Next time I'm heading face first into the deck. Ripped the sidwall of my tyre as well.

I reported that piece of road on dublincity.ie and the current status is "referred for inspection".
https://dcciservices.dublincity.ie/ if anyone wants to add to it.

No Pants

Jawgap wrote: »

LOLLYPOP LADIES BACK MCGRATH ON CYCLISTS

One motorist said in relation to cyclists “if you criticise these untouchables” then they equate your comments to being anti-Semitic or anti-gay”.

"Cyclists are gay and Jewish," says Finian McGrath.

nomdeboardie

No Pants wrote: »

One motorist said in relation to cyclists “if you criticise these untouchables” then they equate your comments to being anti-Semitic or anti-gay”.

"Cyclists are gay and Jewish," says Finian McGrath.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythrdCsOFJU

Kav0777

Jawgap wrote: »

LOLLYPOP LADIES BACK MCGRATH ON CYCLISTS

A constituent of mine’s wife was hit by a racing cyclist in Raheny and suffered broken wrist and in severe pain.

I didn't know there were road races in Raheny, when did that race happen?

Spook_ie

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

To level the playing field somewhat, I have made a simple image showing the layout of the area in question.
It's not to OS standards, but should give an idea.

I'll still ask as a pedestrian which is the more attractive to walk on? Bear in mind that like cyclists not all pedestrians are like minded and some would prefer to have a leisurely stroll by the sea and others would prefer just not to be on the footpath right next to the road.

Spook_ie

Kav0777 wrote: »

I didn't know there were road races in Raheny, when did that race happen?

Every rush hour probably, you don't have to be in a race to be a racing cyclist

Edit: Just don't have a bell fitted and you could be construed as being a racing cyclist
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0190.html#zzsi190y1963a28

"Pedal cycles.
93. (1) Every pedal cycle (other than a cycle constructed or adapted for use as a racing cycle) while used in a public place shall be fitted with an audible warning device consisting of a bell capable of being heard at a reasonable distance, and no other type of audible warning instrument shall be fitted to a pedal cycle while used in a public place."

Dermot Illogical

Spook_ie wrote: »

I'll still ask as a pedestrian which is the more attractive to walk on? Bear in mind that like cyclists not all pedestrians are like minded and some would prefer to have a leisurely stroll by the sea and others would prefer just not to be on the footpath right next to the road.

If all pedestrians aren't like-minded how can I answer your question?
Tell me what your own preference is and I'll make a recommendation.

nomdeboardie

GoTilUBlow wrote: »

Looks like they may be going ahead with Clontarf limits. NTA approval required

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/new-us-style-speed-limit-specifically-for-cyclists-to-be-introduced-for-first-time-in-ireland/

Watch this space......

They're arguing for a limit just on the basis that pedestrians have to cross the bike path. Fair enough, that should be the only basis in the region where the path is seperate from the footathpd :rolleyes: But surely the stream of mad cyclists isn't continuous enough to really make crossing a problem

(Disclaimer: I haven't yet cycled there, so my impressions of the track are limited to Google Streetview and hearsay )

Spook_ie

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

If all pedestrians aren't like-minded how can I answer your question?
Tell me what your own preference is and I'll make a recommendation.

MY preference would be to walk just far enough away from the road that I don't have to hold onto my child's hand like a limpet but this isn't about my preference it's about pedestrians in general, rather like it's about cyclists in general

le petit braquet

Spook_ie wrote: »

MY preference would be to walk just far enough away from the road that I don't have to hold onto my child's hand like a limpet but this isn't about my preference it's about pedestrians in general, rather like it's about cyclists in general

Well even going by your preference and those who share it, surely walking on the cycle path would still require you to maintain a limpet-like grip to stop the child wandering under a passing cyclist (racing or not)?

SilverLiningOK

Some of these pedestrians wouldn't be able to handle cities like Amsterdam at all. Crossing a main street such as Damrak, you first have to cross cycle lane, then a road with tram tracks, bus/traffic lane and another cycle lane on other side. Looking/listening while walking is not to be under estimated in such an environment.

Beasty

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Stop being needlessly obtuse. It's a cycle track. There's a path beside it.

monument wrote: »

Trolls like bridges.

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

If you don't know the area, which you clearly don't then you should leave the debate.

Please leave the modding to the mods - if you have a problem with a post or poster then report it and do not respond in thread

Spook_ie wrote: »

Really, you do surprise me I wouldn't have thought many people would prefer to walk in the middle of the road, no accounting for some people you though eh?

fixed my own post

You continue with this and other posts to tread a very thin line aimed at winding up specific posters and cyclists generally. Cut it out or you will be banned for trolling

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in-thread

Jawgap

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

Some of these pedestrians wouldn't be able to handle cities like Amasterdam at all. Crossing a main street such as Damrak, you first have to cross cycle lane, then a road with tram tracks, bus/traffic lane and another cycle lane on other side. Looking/listening while walking is not to be under estimated in such an environment.

their cloak of self-righteousness would protect them.....;)

Dermot Illogical

Spook_ie wrote: »

MY preference would be to walk just far enough away from the road that I don't have to hold onto my child's hand like a limpet but this isn't about my preference it's about pedestrians in general, rather like it's about cyclists in general

For you I would recommend the footpad along the promenade. On one side you have a green area upon which your child may gambol with gay abandon, free from the dangers presented by persons not travelling on foot. On the other, separated from your good self by a low (but nonetheless child-friendly) sea wall, you can see Bull Island across the water as you taste the sea breeze. Various amenities adorn the route, including seated shelters and exercise paraphernalia.
In fact, it's the footpad I would use myself. I'd recommend it highly to all pedestrians.

Zillah

McGrath's update is ridiculous.

Step 1 - Propose cycling speed limit.
Step 2 - Publish incoherent list of unreferenced anti-cyclist anecdotes.
Step 3 - ???

Shows the level of thinking that has gone into this.

Also: What on Earth do people think a footpad is? Footpath, you illiterates.

Dermot Illogical

Zillah wrote: »

Also: What on Earth do people think a footpad is? Footpath, you illiterates.

Don't worry, it's just an allusion.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58147437

Kav0777

Spook_ie wrote: »

Every rush hour probably, you don't have to be in a race to be a racing cyclist

Edit: Just don't have a bell fitted and you could be construed as being a racing cyclist
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0190.html#zzsi190y1963a28

Well, if you're not in a race, you're not a racing cyclist. You're a cyclist on a racing bike.

At least we're getting to the crux of the issue now....