Help with a marriage

shanew · 24-10-2013 9:28pm

Architect ? (gone wrong...)

Waitsian · 24-10-2013 9:33pm

I'm terrible at hand writing analysis

- I can hadly make any of that cert out never mind the occupation you want. At first glance I thought they were married in Newry, but it's County Cork isn't it? Where were they married?

Hermy · 24-10-2013 9:35pm

Would you believe it's Fermoy!

Waitsian · 24-10-2013 9:38pm

Hermy wrote: »

Would you believe it's Fermoy!

Wow. I suppose these men (and I'm assuming all Registrars back then were men) never thought that the likes of us years later would be analysing their writing so never bothered to keep it neat, more's the pity!

What's the occupation of the bride's father? I can't make that out at all.

Waitsian · 24-10-2013 9:39pm

Hermy wrote: »

My own best guess is a stitcher but even when I enlarge my own copy it still doesn't look right.

shanew wrote: »

Architect ?

I could be grasping at straws here but could the groom's father have been a scutcher?

shanew · 24-10-2013 9:42pm

found the name of the Priest for further comparison - it William Rice believe or not, a CC in the parish at the time. So this registrar does drop i dots sometimes...

Hermy · 24-10-2013 9:48pm

mod9maple wrote: »

Wow. I suppose these men (and I'm assuming all Registrars back then were men) never thought that the likes of us years later would be analysing their writing so never bothered to keep it neat, more's the pity!

It still goes on today - just look at prescriptions.
Yet when us humble folk fill out forms we MUST USE BLOCK CAPITALS!!!

What's the bride's occupation? I can't make that out at all.

The bride's father is a shop keeper I think although someone suggested a crop reaper.
Margaret was living in Princes Street, Fermoy when she had their first child in 1875 so shop keeper might be right.

Waitsian · 24-10-2013 9:56pm

Hermy wrote: »

It still goes on today - just look at prescriptions.
Yet when us humble folk fill out forms we MUST USE BLOCK CAPITALS!!!

The bride's father is a shop keeper I think although someone suggested a crop reaper.
Margaret was living in Princes Street, Fermoy when she had their first child in 1875 so shop keeper might be right.

Oops - I meant her father of course!

shanew · 24-10-2013 9:57pm

here's the month, which I presume is April ?, and the occupation for comparison of the first letters...

Waitsian · 24-10-2013 10:00pm

Architect definitely looks likely except for the crossed letter after the initial couple of letters but that could just be an error, force of habit - I know I do that sometimes!

If he was an architect, you could try a directory for the area in or around that time period, if one exists.

Hermy · 24-10-2013 10:01pm

Here's a link to the full size document if it helps at all.

Hermy · 24-10-2013 10:06pm

mod9maple wrote: »

If he was an architect, you could try a directory for the area in or around that time period, if one exists.

Part of the problem with the Monks family is that I don't know what their area was. I do know they had an association with St. Andrews Church Westland Row but that's about it.

shanew · 24-10-2013 10:09pm

Hermy wrote: »

Here's a link to the full size document if it helps at all.

that's definitely clearer... sticking with a very badly written Architect due to the 'A', for now, but will think about it... pretty sure 2nd letter is an r, there are 4 ascender letters - l h t and possibly d, and 3 small/wide letters o e or c, and I think some cross-bars went too far..

shanew · 24-10-2013 10:15pm

maybe he the priest or registrar couldn't spell it - and guessed something like - Artchetek ?

so no i...

Hermy · 24-10-2013 10:28pm

shanew wrote: »

maybe he the priest or registrar couldn't spell it - and guessed something like - Artchetek ?

so no i...

I think that is very likely as there is just no making sense of what is written.

Hermy · 24-10-2013 10:43pm

Thanks very much for the help - I'm singing off for now.

shanew · 24-10-2013 10:47pm

^^ me too..

possibility of an usual spelling but reasonably correct phonetic sound reminds me of one I came across years ago at school when I was called in to verify a little brother had done his homework. He had given 'Austridge' ... think about it... I prefer this to the correct spelling

Hermy · 24-10-2013 10:55pm

Makes perfect sense.

pinkypinky · 24-10-2013 11:00pm

Hermy wrote: »

Would you believe it's Fermoy!

I read it as "Hermy" and then decided that might be wrong.

Got nothing on the occupation. Looks like Yiddish!

Waitsian · 24-10-2013 11:05pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Got nothing on the occupation. Looks like Yiddish!

Oi va voi!

dido2 · 25-10-2013 1:12am

Could you get a marriage cert for another sibling close to this marriage to check what the fathers occupation might have been, they might have had better handwriting!!!!!

shanew · 25-10-2013 8:12am

An 1881 directory shows a John McGrath, Public house with an address of Barrack Hill.. might be Margaret's father. No Monk businesses in the listing for the town that I can see

Hermy · 25-10-2013 9:47am

pinkypinky wrote: »

I read it as "Hermy" and then decided that might be wrong.

Ah yes, Hermy - the well known tourist destination of the late 1800's.:P

dido2 wrote: »

Could you get a marriage cert for another sibling close to this marriage to check what the fathers occupation might have been, they might have had better handwriting!!!!!

Oh, if only it were that simple.:) I hope in due time that I can find siblings but right now I couldn't even say whether or not Frank had brothers and sisters.

shanew wrote: »

An 1881 directory shows a John McGrath, Public house with an address of Barrack Hill.. might be Margaret's father. No Monk businesses in the listing for the town that I can see

The Monks business if there was one would have been in Dublin - I just can't say where in Dublin beyond a possible (read highly likely) connection with St. Andrews, Westland Row.

CeannRua · 26-10-2013 7:29am

Hermy wrote: »

Here's a link to the full size document if it helps at all.

Wonder if the occupation might be 'art etcher.'

Do you know if John Monks was Irish, Hermy? I can see where architect is coming from but it doesn't look like an intuitive wrong spelling to me. Irish architects are detailed at www.dia.ie. No listing for him but it might be worth contacting them to see if there are updates.

Hermy · 26-10-2013 10:04am

CeannRua wrote: »

Do you know if John Monks was Irish, Hermy?

I can only assume that he was, as the marriage record of his son Francis is the earliest record I can confirm. I have what I believe is the baptismal record of Francis in 1849 but I'm hoping some more work in the GRO will shed more light on the origins of this family.

shanew · 26-10-2013 10:27am

Hermy wrote: »

I can only assume that he was, as the marriage record of his son Francis is the earliest record I can confirm. I have what I believe is the baptismal record of Francis in 1849 but I'm hoping some more work in the GRO will shed more light on the origins of this family.

forgotten about that possible baptism... think I checked directories for possible related listings before. Not sure if we tried this before, but thought it might be worth trying another angle due to the date ... the 1851 census extract. Just gives names for heads of household, street address and civil parish, but gives a few more options.. Should include more heads of household than directories, e.g. labourers, those in tenements etc. You can see basic info on FMP.ie on a free search.

Monks Jno. St. Bridget's
Monks Jno. St. George's
Monks Jno. St. Michan's
Monks Jno. St. George's
Monks Jno. St. Peter's
Monks Jno. St. James's

No Monks in the 30-40 Architects, and just two John or J. Monks in the Alphabetical index in Thom's 1852, a John Monks at 138 Summerhill which would be St. George's civil parish and a J.H. Monks M.D. Rathmines, St. Peter's but probably outside the city and area covered by the census extract.

CeannRua · 26-10-2013 2:10pm

Hermy, are you related to any of the Monks people who give their profession as printer in the censuses? If you are, my earlier idea of 'art etcher' would fit in with this.

Hermy · 26-10-2013 2:53pm

CeannRua wrote: »

Hermy, are you related to any of the Monks people who give their profession as printer in the censuses? If you are, my earlier idea of 'art etcher' would fit in with this.

Unfortunately I cannot say - I have only identified a few of 'my' Monks on the census returns:

1901

Francis Monks son Francis (nickname Bonzo) and daughter Mary at 6 Fitzwilliam Square, Dublin
Francis Monks other daughter Margaret and his mother Mary at 7 Convent Road, Dalkey

1911
Bonzo and family at 43 Ellsmere Avenue, Dublin
Bonzo's sister Margaret at 18 in Clyde Road, Dublin

I haven't yet identified Bonzo's other sister Mary on the 1911 Census.

Hermy · 26-10-2013 3:07pm

I've found a military record at FindMyPast.co.uk that is very likely to be that of Francis Monks (b. 1849). Would any of you know what this record is likely to contain?

Hermy · 26-10-2013 3:38pm

Well, I can answer my own question as I paid for the record which contained fourteen pages among which was confirmation of his birth in St. Andrew's in 1849 and his death in Karachi in 1889. It also gave his trade as grocer prior to signing up, his mothers address at 9 Londonbridge Road in 1864, and mentioned among his children a daughter Mary Anne b. 1879 and son Thomas b. 1881 (both born in India) who I knew nothing about.

Help with a marriage

Comments