Womens' rugby Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

irishbucsfan

vapor trails wrote: »

I consider myself to be a fairly big fan of Rugby. I live near to Ashbourne. When the women's team were playing their 6 nations matches in Ashbourne. I never really felt motivated to go down to watch a game. In hindsight, I think it was to do with the fact that I didn't fancy going to the matches because I felt like they were short in Pace, Power, and skill. Also maybe a bit of the testosterone-fuelled confrontational components to the game.

Now you can hate on that view as much as you want. But whether people like it or not that's why most lads and probably most women don't go to these matches or watch them on TV. Every metric to do with the consumption of women's rugby indicates something like what I said above. There is no amount of investment that will change those fundamentals.

Absolutely no evidence for this whatsoever.

Again, what we've seen in US soccer directly contradicts this and it's the only real case study that exists.

No one is asking for the women's team to be watched more or even as much as the men anyway, that's a straw man. Just a clear strategy and open communication.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Absolutely no evidence for this whatsoever.

Again, what we've seen in US soccer directly contradicts this and it's the only real case study that exists.

No one is asking for the women's team to be watched more or even as much as the men anyway, that's a straw man. Just a clear strategy and open communication.

The open communication is probably the biggest thing of all to me. I mean, they may have had good reason to turn down the offer and may have some great plans in the works for women's rugby. But if they do, we know nothing about them. Nor do the players it would seem. Every single message that the IRFU send out about the women's game suggests, at the very least, that they don't care about it. To the point that, even if they do, nobody would believe it.

If they don't care then the least they could do (for themselves) is cover it up a bit better. But at this point it almost looks like disdain. When so many countries are forging ahead with the women's game, we're getting left behind. And all this while Irish rugby is as successful as it's ever been. I'm not quite sure how that can be excused.

molloyjh

vapor trails wrote: »

I consider myself to be a fairly big fan of Rugby. I live near to Ashbourne. When the women's team were playing their 6 nations matches in Ashbourne. I never really felt motivated to go down to watch a game. In hindsight, I think it was to do with the fact that I didn't fancy going to the matches because I felt like they were short in Pace, Power, and skill. Also maybe a bit of the testosterone-fuelled confrontational components to the game.

Now you can hate on that view as much as you want. But whether people like it or not that's why most lads and probably most women don't go to these matches or watch them on TV. Every metric to do with the consumption of women's rugby indicates something like what I said above. There is no amount of investment that will change those fundamentals.

Well someone has never seen the kind of hits that Jenny Murphy has put in or some of the switch plays Ireland were using in this years 6Ns.

It's still an amateur sport. Expecting the same level you'd get from a pro sport is more than just a little daft. And the only way to improve the product is to invest in it. That did wonders for the men's game after all.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Well someone has never seen the kind of hits that Jenny Murphy has put in or some of the switch plays Ireland were using in this years 6Ns.

It's still an amateur sport. Expecting the same level you'd get from a pro sport is more than just a little daft. And the only way to improve the product is to invest in it. That did wonders for the men's game after all.

Yup I agree with this, I've enjoyed watching the women's game without necessarily getting excited by the prospect of it.

I said it before but the IRFU are in a ruthless, competitive market driven by the men's game and paid for by the men's game. That it occupies their priorities is not a surprise, but it's not really the way a governing body should be run when non revenue generating aspects of the game still need to be developed. It's certainly to blame for some of the glibness, mixed messages and indifference.

I do think the transparency that female players deserve is not really going to achieve much - I think self determination of the women's side of the game and a focus on it outside of the commercialised nature of the IRFU is what it probably needs. We have 4 provinces with separate executives under the umbrella of the the IRFU, surely giving the women's game autonomy to utilise funding as they feel is of most benefit should be the priority at this point?

Thud

vapor trails wrote: »

I consider myself to be a fairly big fan of Rugby. I live near to Ashbourne. When the women's team were playing their 6 nations matches in Ashbourne. I never really felt motivated to go down to watch a game. In hindsight, I think it was to do with the fact that I didn't fancy going to the matches because I felt like they were short in Pace, Power, and skill. Also maybe a bit of the testosterone-fuelled confrontational components to the game.

Now you can hate on that view as much as you want. But whether people like it or not that's why most lads and probably most women don't go to these matches or watch them on TV. Every metric to do with the consumption of women's rugby indicates something like what I said above. There is no amount of investment that will change those fundamentals.

have a look at some 80/90s mens international games, you'll be surprised by the lack of pace and power relative to the current days professional men's games. It didn't mean people didn't watch back them.

Womens rugby is still relatively speaking in its nascent stage so comparing it to current day professional mens rugby is unfair, yet if you watch womens 7's (the part of womens rugby that has gone professional) it is fast paced and as entertaining as the mens 7s, the 15's game can get there too but it's unlikely in this country if IRFU continue to carry on like this.

Squidgy Black

What a shocker. Rugby team that doesn't train full time and work a 9-5 job during the day, aren't as fit or skilled as a professional rugby team who have been playing g rugby for a living full time since they left school.

Who would've imagined it?

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

What a shocker. Rugby team that doesn't train full time and work a 9-5 job during the day, aren't as fit or skilled as a professional rugby team who have been playing g rugby for a living full time since they left school.

Who would've imagined it?

Other sports have to do that though. If you want to get a grant from the sports council you have to hit times set by the best in the world or hit top 3 or top 6 in major championships. Those things can only be done by training professionally, even if you are financing that yourself.

GAA players are in the same boat, the standard at all Ireland level is pretty exceptional and not far off pro-rugby in my opinion. These players (men and women) train most days and sometimes twice a day without being remunerated for it (openly so anyway).

I'm not saying any of that is a good thing, but plenty of sports people have to compete against professionals whilst themselves being amateurs or at best semi-professionals.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Other sports have to do that though. If you want to get a grant from the sports council you have to hit times set by the best in the world or hit top 3 or top 6 in major championships. Those things can only be done by training professionally, even if you are financing that yourself.

GAA players are in the same boat, the standard at all Ireland level is pretty exceptional and not far off pro-rugby in my opinion. These players (men and women) train most days and sometimes twice a day without being remunerated for it (openly so anyway).

I'm not saying any of that is a good thing, but plenty of sports people have to compete against professionals whilst themselves being amateurs or at best semi-professionals.

If the money available to women's players was even close to what it is for GAA players then this discussion wouldn't be happening!

Squidgy Black

The money available to counties like Dublin and Kerry are unbelievable. I'd say the money given to women's 15s by the IRFU dwarves in comparison.

Dublin have dedicated gym facilities for their players to use 24/7, dedicated nutritionists and physios, and a lot of players have jobs that are more than willing to accommodate their schedule, to be able to say they've a Dublin player working for them.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If the money available to women's players was even close to what it is for GAA players then this discussion wouldn't be happening!

If the circumstances around the promotion and development of the GAA existed for all other sports we'd be picking up 5 or 6 times the number of Olympic medals as we currently do.

Don't blame the GAA for that either.

The Lost Sheep

World Rugby has received expressions of interest from six countries to host the next edition of the Women’s Rugby World Cup in 2021.
Australia
England
France
New Zealand
Portugal
Wales

connemara man

Nucifora responds to the times article

IRFU says dates on offer in Australia 'didn't fit with the women's plan' http://the42.ie/4078236

A lot in that smells like bs to me

molloyjh

connemara man wrote: »

Nucifora responds to the times article

IRFU says dates on offer in Australia 'didn't fit with the women's plan' http://the42.ie/4078236

A lot in that smells like bs to me

I can understand where they are coming from with that article. The 7s schedule would have already been agreed before the offer came in from Australia and that would have seen a few of the 15s players unavailable. I think that's fair enough given the circumstances.

There are still issues though. Managing the 7s and 15s in tandem may be required due to playing numbers, but they should be looking to split the 2 just like with the mens game in the longer term. And the level of communication on the whole thing was dreadful. Sure they don't talk to players about all tour offers, but there's a greater focus on the womens game since last year and there have been some real blunders in that area. It's incredibly sensitive at the moment and could do with being handled with a bit more tact. Having players find out about this in the press, and then not briefing them immediately to allay concerns, is really poor form. And it's allowed things to snowball a bit when it could have been handled better at the top levels.

irishbucsfan

Again, listen to the players. Past and present.

arsebiscuits1

connemara man wrote: »

Nucifora responds to the times article

IRFU says dates on offer in Australia 'didn't fit with the women's plan' http://the42.ie/4078236

A lot in that smells like bs to me

Which part?

While I don't like the answer, most of it seems to stem from how closely interlinked the womens 7s and 15s programs are.

I will read the Strategic Review quite closely in September

errlloyd

I'm possibly gonna get roasted for this, but can we change the title of this thread to Womens' Rugby talk. They identify as the Ireland Womens' team, and ladies feels a bit dated.

The Lost Sheep

molloyjh wrote: »

I can understand where they are coming from with that article. The 7s schedule would have already been agreed before the offer came in from Australia and that would have seen a few of the 15s players unavailable. I think that's fair enough given the circumstances.

There are still issues though. Managing the 7s and 15s in tandem may be required due to playing numbers, but they should be looking to split the 2 just like with the mens game in the longer term. And the level of communication on the whole thing was dreadful. Sure they don't talk to players about all tour offers, but there's a greater focus on the womens game since last year and there have been some real blunders in that area. It's incredibly sensitive at the moment and could do with being handled with a bit more tact. Having players find out about this in the press, and then not briefing them immediately to allay concerns, is really poor form. And it's allowed things to snowball a bit when it could have been handled better at the top levels.

Yeah i can agree with a lot of that. Splitting the 7s and 15s is probably needed in time but it should be a while yet. The club game needs a lot more work and improvements before we look at things like this.
And how the IRFU managed this was terrible.

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm possibly gonna get roasted for this, but can we change the title of this thread to Womens' Rugby talk. They identify as the Ireland Womens' team, and ladies feels a bit dated.

Yeah would agree with you on that

The Lost Sheep

Scotland have doubled the number of their players turning pro. Now have 8 pro's.
http://www.scrumqueens.com/news/scotland-award-eight-contracts

Interesting to see how long they'll keep them pro considering they have to qualify for the next world cup as theyve missed the last two tournaments.

The Lost Sheep

Leah Lyons joining Harlequins for this seasons Premier 15s. Wonder will we see more of the irish squad joining english sides with the Premier 15s going strength to strength?

sullivlo

Cliona Maloney joining Wasps too.

The Lost Sheep

Intepro squads beginning to be named
Connacht named theirs today
Aifric O Brien, Anne Marie O Hora, Amelie Roux, Catherine Martin, Ciara O Connor, Clodagh Dunne, Denise Redmond, Edel McMahon, Emma Hannon, Elizabeth McNicholas, Ellen Taite, Grainne Egan, Hilary Griffin, Jane O Neill, Jill Draper, Julia Bauer, Tracey Gannon, Ursula Sammon, Luara Feely, Lauren Retig, Mairead Coyne, Mary Healy, Moya Griffin, Nichola Fryday, Nicola Caldbeck, Nole Fowley, Orla Dixon, Rachel Healy, Rachel O Brien, Shannen Lane, Shannon Tuohey, Sarah-Jane Fox, Tara Buggie

Leinster named their squad last week https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/leinster-rugby-womens-squad-announced-ahead-interprovincial-championship/

Munster named their squad
Andrea Stock (Bantry Bay RFC), Chloe Pearse (UL Bohs RFC), Ciara Griffin (UL Bohs RFC), Clodagh Cronin (Durham University RFC), Clodagh O’Halloran, (UL Bohs RFC), Deirbhile Nic a Bhaird (UL Bohs RFC), Edel Murphy (UL Bohs RFC), Fiona Hayes (UL Bohs RFC), Fiona Reidy (UL Bohs RFC), Kate Sheehan (UL Bohs RFC), Orla Curtin (Shannon RFC), Roisin Ormond (Ballincollig RFC), Sarah Garrett (Clonmel RFC), Sarah Quin (Richmond RFC), Siobhan McCarthy (Railway Union RFC), Aine Staunton (UL Bohs RFC), Christine Coffey (Thurles RFC), Ciara Scanlan (St. Marys College RFC), Claire Keohane (UL Bohs RFC), Eimear Considine (UL Bohs RFC), Emily Lane (Ballincollig RFC), Enya Breen (Bantry Bay RFC), Laura O’Mahony (UL Bohs RFC), Laura Sheehan (UL Bohs RFC), Niamh Briggs (UL Bohs RFC), Niamh Kavanagh (UL Bohs RFC), Nicole Cronin (UL Bohs RFC), Rachel Allen (UL Bohs RFC), Stephanie Corkery (Ballincollig RFC)

games on September 1st, 8th, 15th. Dont know home/away status of the other games.
1/9
Munster v Connacht
8/9
Connacht v Leinster, Ulster v Munster
15/9
Connacht v Ulster, Leinster v Munster

The Lost Sheep

There were open trials/screening sessions for irish eligible players in the UK held over the weekend. One session in Loughborough and another in Reading.

Also news on the next world cup in 2021. Australia and New Zealand have submitted bids for the tournament which will feature quarter-finals for the first time and it will also be played over 35 days instead of 17 days

Decision to be made mid-November.

Squidgy Black

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There were open trials/screening sessions for irish eligible players in the UK held over the weekend. One session in Loughborough and another in Reading.

Also news on the next world cup in 2021. Australia and New Zealand have submitted bids for the tournament which will feature quarter-finals for the first time and it will also be played over 35 days instead of 17 days

Decision to be made mid-November.

I don't want to beat the IRFU with a stick (any further), but could we potentially see trouble around the extension to 35 days? That's a significant increase in cost for teams, and there's always been controversy around budget regarding the women's team.

Thud

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I don't want to beat the IRFU with a stick (any further), but could we potentially see trouble around the extension to 35 days? That's a significant increase in cost for teams, and there's always been controversy around budget regarding the women's team.

For any non professional players that's a long time off work even if they don't make the final (i assume they would be in camp before it also), is the assumption that most player will be professional by then?
Very unlikely for the lower tier nations.

irishbucsfan

Given the IRFU didn't even intend originally intend to pay the players for the last one at home, I'd imagine it'd represent a pretty substantial increase in costs. Very difficult for the squad to make that fit with work commitments. Hopefully it's confirmed ASAP so that people can start making arrangements and start buying their bosses sweets.

I have absolutely no optimism whatsoever that it'd be professional here by then. 0% chance of the IRFU catching up with the other Unions that quickly, the ship turns far slower than that.

Just looking at fixtures and I see the Leinster senior women's fixture is clashing with the men's on Friday night. The kids enjoyed the women's world cup so wanted to bring them to some of the interpro's but having KO 35 minutes before the men's team isn't going to do anything for attendance. It's only down the road from me so might go anyway but I've no easy way to record the men's game.

Do I have the times mixed up or is this somewhat poor planning from the organisers?

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Just looking at fixtures and I see the Leinster senior women's fixture is clashing with the men's on Friday night. The kids enjoyed the women's world cup so wanted to bring them to some of the interpro's but having KO 35 minutes before the men's team isn't going to do anything for attendance. It's only down the road from me so might go anyway but I've no easy way to record the men's game.

Do I have the times mixed up or is this somewhat poor planning from the organisers?

No times mixed up. Not ideal but with club games really beginning this weekend is there other alternatives so no clash?

Bohs have 12 starting and another 3 on bench for Munster.

https://munsterrugby.ie/domestic_news/munster-women-named-to-face-connacht-in-interprovincial-championship-opener/

The Lost Sheep

November internationals confirmed
Ireland Women v USA Women
Energia Park, Donnybrook, Dublin.
Sunday 18th November, 2018
KO: TBC

England Women v Ireland Women
Twickenham Stadium, London.
Saturday 24th November, 2018
KO: 5.40pm

The Lost Sheep

First interpros are this weekend.
Ulster Leinster in Stradbrook starting in 15minutes.
Munster Connacht in Musgrave tommorow at 2

The Lost Sheep

Leinster win 17-0