Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

petrolcan

Curly Judge wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous!
Of course I'd have objections. Up to and including physical resistance.
But if my wife had been pulling a scam with the "social" and got in a bit of a tizzy because she couldn't produce the correct documents to prove that the child was hers, then my objections might have tobe less vociferous.
AND... if she had said that our child had been born in the local maternity hospital and the hospital couldn't find any records because she had given the wrong name then I'd be on really dodgy ground. Wouldn't I?
Anyway this business about the Garda targeting minorities is rubbish.
Every day they, and their sidekicks the RSA, impound cars, vans, trailers and even a combine harvester from hard working members of the general public. When was the last time you heard of a travellers vehicle being impounded?
The guards and the courts let them away with blue mayhem, either because they are physically [or politically] afraid of them.
If members of the settled community behaved in the way some members of the minority community carry on Mountjoy would be overflowing down to the lower end of The NCR.

Spoken like a true racist.

Curly Judge

petrolcan wrote: »

Spoken like a true racist.

Well... if you say so it must be true.

cletus van damme

Chase Little Oxygen wrote: »

And if (god forbid) the IRA starts messing around again and you decide to go off to London for a weekend, you'd be absolutely fine with being pulled out of the security line for extra searches, other passengers staring at you every time you spoke, grilled by airport staff and police about where you were going and why? You wouldn't mind being offloaded from a flight for having an Irish accent, which makes the English person next to you feel nervous and afraid?

Are you sure now?

I'd accept it as being logical.
In fact if the UK police avoided profiling irish people to avoid upsetting PC people I'd be worried tehy weren't doing their jobs.

tayto lover

The whole thing to me is that if people suspect child abuse they should report it.
In the Dublin case it is a pity that the authorities didn't find another way to check out the parenthood of the child without removing her and separating her from her family but then again they had doubts that it was her family. Not easy for either side in this case.

Would a National Identity car sort out this kind of thing or would that also have people objecting?

Chinasea

mango salsa wrote: »

Really?

http://itonlyencouragesthem.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/romachilddublin/

Should we be surprised at this. Sadly no, but it makes hard reading for some of us. That is to those that would bother.

Again, look at the language that this 'tip off'er' used and the sheer and utter exaggeration i.e "This is a big problem with children getting robbed by the Roma!!!!!!! What kind of people write this kind of rubbish, and what kind of people believe it. It seems there are many here, and reading many of the posts in this thread it appears that many have closed themselves off yet again, no lessons learnt, none whatsoever. In fact, it seems that many are even digging their heels in even further into their prejudice, jaundiced ways.

MadsL

Haven't read the thread, but is there much egg on faces in here now?

tayto lover

MadsL wrote: »

Haven't read the thread, but is there much egg on faces in here now?

Nobody seems to have changer their opinions yet.

MadsL

tayto lover wrote: »

Nobody seems to have changer their opinions yet.

Post more then!! There is no time to lose.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Curly Judge wrote: »

By all means throw him out and replace him with a one legged PC darling.

So long as he is not replaced with another bigoted racist bas$rd like himself , I don't mind.
I do mind this state both subsidizing a racist and being represented by one.
Heffernan is a national disgrace, as are his apologists.

Curly Judge

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

So long as he is not replaced with another bigoted racist bas$rd like himself , I don't mind.
I do mind this state both subsidizing a racist and being represented by one.
Heffernan is a national disgrace, as are his apologists.

Could it just be that he is not accustomed to fame and the attention it brings.
Even poor auld cuddly Enda got his head in a halter over some unguarded remark he made about some African leader. And... for all his faults ....I don't think he's a racist
I know very little about this Heffernan guy.
Has he some kind of form in this regard.
If not I'd give him another chance before hanging him.
Even a dog is entitled to one bite.

Aidric

Anyone else think this guys head looks like it's just been sucked out of a hoover?

Sunglasses Ron

Chase Little Oxygen wrote: »

And if (god forbid) the IRA starts messing around again and you decide to go off to London for a weekend, you'd be absolutely fine with being pulled out of the security line for extra searches, other passengers staring at you every time you spoke, grilled by airport staff and police about where you were going and why? You wouldn't mind being offloaded from a flight for having an Irish accent, which makes the English person next to you feel nervous and afraid?

Are you sure now?

Of course I would mind. But a little inconvenience is worth it to save your life.

I have been pulled in for a full drugs search (baggage, full frisk and half hour questioning, no rubber glove treatment thankfully :pac:) whilst flying alone on one occasion and had my hand baggage pulled over for explosives and drug swab testing at least twice. The drug search was coming from Prague via Frankfurt to Dublin, presumably because a few years ago and even today South Africa via Frankfurt to Dublin was a major drug trafficking route. Why? Likely because as a young male flying alone I fitted the possible profile of a drug smuggler or, who knows, a white Muslim convert lone terrorist (they do exist, albeit rarely). The whole thing is a bit annoying but I can live with it because I fit a certain profile. Roma can't be involved in the amount of anti social behaviour so many involve themselves in and be surprised when some of their number fall victim to a bit of stereotyping. There is not one person here who, for example, feels confident using an ATM with a few Roma hanging around a few feet away.

Would I give more of a second look to a few Asian men carrying bulky backpacks on public transport in a major city?

Of course I would. And there is not a soul here who would not.

old hippy

Curly Judge wrote: »

Well when I'm at Dublin airport and about to board a plane I give every Middle Eastern looking passanger a really good looking over to see if I can detect any little tell tale sign of sweating or fidgeting or anxiety.
Were I to detect such signs I'd have no compunction in reporting it to security and letting them deal with it.
I'm sure I'd end up looking very silly but I'd gladly suffer that rather than have my remains floating around in the mid atlantic.
If that makes me a racist then so be it.
If, after twenty years without any middle eastern terrorist attacks I continued to do so then you would probably have a point.

And if one of the "Middle Eastern looking passanger" were to report you for eyeing them up and down and acting furtively, would that be acceptable? Please don't ever come to London, I don't think you'd be able to handle public transport.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Curly Judge wrote: »

Well when I'm at Dublin airport and about to board a plane I give every Middle Eastern looking passanger a really good looking over to see if I can detect any little tell tale sign of sweating or fidgeting or anxiety.
Were I to detect such signs I'd have no compunction in reporting it to security and letting them deal with it.

So a nervous Muslim doctor waiting to board his plane having just heard that his whole family had died in an arson attack would have to suffer even more hurt because of your race based prejudices.
Classy.

Sunglasses Ron

old hippy wrote: »

And if one of the "Middle Eastern looking passanger" were to report you for eyeing them up and down and acting furtively, would that be acceptable? Please don't ever come to London, I don't think you'd be able to handle public transport.

Do you reckon there are Asians in London who give an eye to fellow Asians on public transport if they were lugging bulky backpacks around?

If I was walking across some green space in Dublin at 11pm I would be more cautious for my safety if I came across a group 12 Irish young lads in trackers than I would if I came across a group of Chinese teenagers or Spanish students in the same spot. Am I racist against Irish kids?

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

So a nervous Muslim doctor waiting to board his plane having just heard that his whole family had died in an arson attack would have to suffer even more hurt because of your race based prejudices.
Classy.

I thought the "classy" part was you using a grieving widower for ammo for your nonsensical point myself. Classy indeed.

old hippy

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Do you reckon there are Asians in London who give an eye to fellow Asians on public transport if they were lugging bulky backpacks around?

If I was walking across some green space in Dublin at 11pm I would be more cautious for my safety if I came across a group 12 Irish young lads in trackers than I would if I came across a group of Chinese teenagers or Spanish students in the same spot. Am I racist against Irish kids?

I don't racially profile every single one of my fellow passengers, that's for sure. I have handed in 3 separate "suspicious" items in, mind. None of which turned out to be bombs. One was actually a print mislaid by a well known auction house and I got a small reward for my trouble.

I don't think you are truly racist, Ron but as I've said to you before, you need to take off those sunglasses.

Curly Judge

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I thought the "classy" part was you using a grieving widower for ammo for your nonsensical point myself. Classy indeed.

Ah Ron, don't be so hard on poor old Sir Humphrey.
He has great taste...but it's all in his mouth.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Curly Judge wrote: »

Ah Ron, don't be so hard on poor old Sir Humphrey.
He has great taste...but it's all in his mouth.

Whatever about taste I can smell racist bullshít from a great distance.:p

Sunglasses Ron

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Of course I would mind. But a little inconvenience is worth it to save your life.

I have been pulled in for a full drugs search (baggage, full frisk and half hour questioning, no rubber glove treatment thankfully :pac:) whilst flying alone on one occasion and had my hand baggage pulled over for explosives and drug swab testing at least twice. The drug search was coming from Prague via Frankfurt to Dublin, presumably because a few years ago and even today South Africa via Frankfurt to Dublin was a major drug trafficking route. Why? Likely because as a young male flying alone I fitted the possible profile of a drug smuggler or, who knows, a white Muslim convert lone terrorist (they do exist, albeit rarely). The whole thing is a bit annoying but I can live with it because I fit a certain profile. Roma can't be involved in the amount of anti social behaviour so many involve themselves in and be surprised when some of their number fall victim to a bit of stereotyping. There is not one person here who, for example, feels confident using an ATM with a few Roma hanging around a few feet away.

You're not comparing like with like. I've been pulled for all those things as well. Didn't give it a second thought. Don't you think there's a difference between getting your bag swabbed for explosives (which has happened to most people I know) and getting your kid taken away?

I agree that most people would feel uncomfortable using an ATM with a Roma hanging around because why would they be hanging around if they weren't up to something? That's a completely different situation from ringing the guards to say a Roma family on your estate must have stolen their kid because she looks a bit different and the police taking said kid away.

Would I give more of a second look to a few Asian men carrying bulky backpacks on public transport in a major city?

Of course I would. And there is not a soul here who would not.

I've just got off a London bus where 70%+ of the passengers were Asian men carrying backpacks. Nobody gave them a second look.

Curly Judge

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Whatever about taste I can smell racist bullshít from a great distance.:p

If I finish with a yah boo sucks, can we call it a day and kiss and make up?:)

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Curly Judge wrote: »

If I finish with a yah boo sucks, can we call it a day and kiss and make up?:)

No tongues:D

Curly Judge

Chase Little Oxygen wrote: »

You're not comparing like with like. I've been pulled for all those things as well. Didn't give it a second thought. Don't you think there's a difference between getting your bag swabbed for explosives (which has happened to most people I know) and getting your kid taken away?

I agree that most people would feel uncomfortable using an ATM with a Roma hanging around because why would they be hanging around if they weren't up to something? That's a completely different situation from ringing the guards to say a Roma family on your estate must have stolen their kid because she looks a bit different and the police taking said kid away.



I've just got off a London bus where 70%+ of the passengers were Asian men carrying backpacks. Nobody gave them a second look.

You obviously did!

Curly Judge

Curly Judge wrote: »

[/COLOR]
You obviously did!

It's my normal bus. I have obviously noticed over the last few months that most people on it tend to be Asian, male and carrying college backpacks. I don't stare at them all as they board.

old hippy

Chase Little Oxygen wrote: »

It's my normal bus. I have obviously noticed over the last few months that most people on it tend to be Asian, male and carrying college backpacks. I don't stare at them all as they board.

You don't have to explain yourself. He's just trying to project his own irrational beliefs onto you.

Curly Judge

old hippy wrote: »

You don't have to explain yourself. He's just trying to project his own irrational beliefs onto you.

On a good day I'm a liberal.
Scratch me on a bad day and my less human side might show.
Particularly if it involved a crime or offence against my family.
That said I resent being called a Racist.
Why?
Because I don't think I am. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am.
To be a racist one [in my opinion] would need to believe the object of my hatred are culturally or racially inferior and incapable of improvement, no matter what is done to or for them.
In the case of Irish travellers, how could I possibly be racist towards them when I know and believe that the same blood runs in their veins as mine.
What I am is a behaviourist.
No, I'm not a student of Behavioural Psychology.
I'm a person who resents bad behaviour..
I'm confident and happy in my own mind that if I saw a large, white Irish catholic beating a small Roma boy I would intervene on behalf of that boy and do what I could to help him and extract him from danger. I would certainly inform the Garda and give evidence later if required.
If I'm standing in a late night queue for fish and chips and five or six members of the local travelling community push themselves to the front, out of turn, I usually just shake my head and suffer it.
To make any protest would probably involve me getting my head bashed in and where's the sense in that.
No amount of PC bull**** however will make me forget that behaviour.
No threat of being labelled a racist will make me howld my whisth or convince me that up is down, left is right or high is low when my own senses tell me otherwise.
At what point do people like me begin to associate bad behaviour with a loosely defined section of our society rather than an individual?
Not having done any research on the subject, I don‘t honestly know, but I would guess that if as little as 20% of certain distinguishable sub groups behave in a predictable manner it would be sufficient to allow a discernable trend to emerge.
I feel sure that the vast majority of people living in Fatima Mansions or the old Ballymun towers were decent people doing their best in trying circumstances.
Trouble is, for whatever reason, the percentage of bad apples allowed to grow up [for whatever reason] in their communities is much higher than say, in Churchtown or Rathfarnham.
In the fifties and sixties not all Irish living in London were dirty, drunken, rowdy Paddies. But a sufficiently high proportion of them were to trigger an antipathy on behalf of the general public.
I speak of this period because I was there then and witnessed it.
We were the Roma of London around that time.
Did I resent the native Brits for their attitude? Not once, because they treated me very well and gave me a decent living. Their attitude to me probably had something to do with the fact that they never caught me pissing in a supermarket doorway at two o'clock in the morning as I staggered home from the pub singing Kevin Barry at the top of my voice.
One form of prejudice which has always puzzled me is hatred of the Jews.
They generally don’t indulge in anti social behaviour and are upstanding responsible people. I haven’t mixed with many of them but the few that I have known seemed to me to have a sort of off centred detachment from the rest of us. It’s hard to define it because it is so subtle and anyway it goes nowhere near explaining the persecution we have visited on them down the centuries.
All this is by way of telling you that I am very interested in prejudice and the roots of prejudice.
For instance, the Brits didn't wake up one morning and say to themselves collectively, “Hmmmn, I think I’ll develop a distaste for Paddies today!”
No… it had to grow over a long period and be based on some consistent experience.
In that case we [the Irish] let ourselves down.
In Ireland today the Roma and the Travellers are letting themselves down.
Their advocates are doing them no favours by propagating the fiction that they can carry on as they are and that all the blame is on our side without looking at the mud in their eyes.
Unless they allow themselves and their children to be subjected to a modern education system we'll be back here in 100 years arguing the same old toss.

Overdahill

Curly Judge wrote: »

No matter what shenanigans or scams Travellers, Roma or Nigerians get up to it's racism to suggest that they ever do anything wrong?

This :eek:

No matter what shenanigans or scams irish people get up to its racism to suggest that they ever do anything wrong?

Get it yet?

Curly Judge

Overdahill wrote: »

This :eek:

No matter what shenanigans or scams irish people get up to its racism to suggest that they ever do anything wrong?

Get it yet?

No.

Overdahill

There are bad eggs everywhere. Bad irish people, bad women, bad black kids, bad Roma, bad travellers, bad Muslims, etc etc etc

There are good eggs everywhere. Good irish people, good women, good black kids, good Roma, good travellers, good Muslims, etc etc etc.

Are all irish people bad ?

Are all irish people good?

Can we make a collective generalised judgement all or do we have to look at individuals?

Can you just try to apply yourself to understanding?

Curly Judge

Curly Judge wrote: »

On a good day I'm a liberal.
Scratch me on a bad day and my less human side might show.
Particularly if it involved a crime or offence against my family.
That said I resent being called a Racist.

The part you're missing here is that the Roma families who had their kids taken off them hadn't done anything wrong, let alone committed a crime against you. Not one of the families suspected of having snatched a white child had actually done so. Not one. The Greek police saw a blonde child on a Roma camp, made a wild assumption that she was a kidnapped white girl and the media went insane over it. Do you not see how ridiculous this is? It's a total non-story. A week ago, this was 'the tip of the iceberg' and now the whole thing has pretty much fizzled out. The fact that some random Roma boy has predictably turned out not to be Ben Needham outlines quite neatly how ridiculous the whole sorry situation was - the papers now have egg all over their faces and they'll just pretend they never mentioned Ben Needham or Madeleine McCann in relation to this.

Do I think Roma are amazing people who never commit crimes? Certainly not. But this whole blond kids thing was completely baseless.

One form of prejudice which has always puzzled me is hatred of the Jews.
They generally don’t indulge in anti social behaviour and are upstanding responsible people. I haven’t mixed with many of them but the few that I have known seemed to me to have a sort of off centred detachment from the rest of us. It’s hard to define it because it is so subtle and anyway it goes nowhere near explaining the persecution we have visited on them down the centuries.

Jealousy. The Jews have loads of money and don't tend to waste it on pints and kebabs every weekend.

Curly Judge

Overdahill wrote: »

There are bad eggs everywhere. Bad irish people, bad women, bad black kids, bad Roma, bad travellers, bad Muslims, etc etc etc

Couldn't agree more.

Overdahill wrote: »

There are good eggs everywhere. Good irish people, good women, good black kids, good Roma, good travellers, good Muslims, etc etc etc.

No argument from me.

Overdahill wrote: »

Are all irish people bad ?

No.

Overdahill wrote: »

Are all irish people good?

No.

Overdahill wrote: »

Can we make a collective generalised judgement all or do we have to look at individuals?

This is the whole point of my argument.
At some point a critical mass is reached where the behaviour of a [as yet undefined] percentage of the minority tip the scales and the host society say,
"A plague on all your houses"

Overdahill wrote: »

Can you just try to apply yourself to understanding?

You just couldn't resist finishing off with a smug, patronising comment....could you?