Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

Grayson

Oranage2 wrote: »

Nonsense, do you actually know anything about Roma gypsies and their culture?

The sell their own children to become wives , girls as young as 12 and 13, I would absolutely not trust a child I know around them.

Why, what would happen to them? Do you think you'd arrive home and find your daughter making dinner for the new hubby? Or, once again we're back to abduction, do you think they'd be kidnapped and forced to live in a gypsy encampment until some vigilant policeman noticed that they had different coloured hair?

Red21

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

As to the Roma and their "culture", I came across this story about a family of Roma on trial for a massive amount of robberies whose defence is that thieving and selling child brides is part of their culture so they should be let off because their practicing their traditions.

I came accross this http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007060

This kinda stuff has gone on throughout history all over the world and is currently going on today.
The depressing thing about racism/nationalism/divisions/bigatary, is that people who make the division between themselves and the minority group are the same people who'll quiet easily make the same division between themselves and an oppressing group, they think this has nothing to do with them.
What do you think happens when enough racists get together.

Grayson

Red21 wrote: »

What do you think happens when enough racists get together.

Country and western music?

Curly Judge

Grayson wrote: »

Country and western music?

Right... that's it... the gloves are off now.
I've tried to be polite and humour you effete Vivaldi and Schubert types.
But this is too much.
When you wantonly attack my Waylon Jennings sensibilities then you have gone too far.
From now on ....no prisoners!

Annasopra

Horrid Henry wrote: »

Why are we (i.e. society) being criticised for holding views that we've arrived at based on our life experiences?

I'm sorry, but if I saw two dark skinned dark haired dark eyed Roma adults with a pale blonde haired blue eyed child, I'd ring the cops.

If you saw two white Irish people with a Chinese baby would you ring them as well?

Chinasea

CaraMay wrote: »

The house next to us is filled with a Roma family thanks to the council. (Really???) I am and have been scared of letting my child out in the back garden since they moved in and I don't care admitting that. I hate feeling like this but my gut, since way before any if this started, is that he is not safe out there even though it's enclosed. Dunno why

Curly Judge wrote: »

What a superior, belittling,holier than thou, piece of nonsense.
I think I'd set fire to myself if I had to live beside you.

OK, so this poster, despite having gone through all the hysteria of this week still comes on a forum sprouting this kind of unbridled disdain.

This prejudicial attitude that the poster has expressed towards the Roma family ties in with what the senior Garda concluded after the fairly recent horrendous and utterly brutal murder of 18-year-old Marioara Rostas, which I link in case it has skipped your mind or you missed it.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/kidnapped-gang-raped-tortured-shot-and-dumped-but-no-one-cares-187340.html

Annasopra

Curly Judge wrote: »

I think the result in Greece would make it 1 out of 3.
But then again you probably find it okay for certain sections of society to wander about the continent picking up the odd child here and dropping the odd one off there on an ad-hoc basis.
The cheek of the authorities for interfering in this quaint piece of laissez faire cultural expression.

No

The child in Greece is Roma.

There is no pattern at all.

sonny jim bob jones

The unfortunate aspect of this is that it will be used to overshadow and stifle any debate on Roma's and their lack of integration with 'settled' society and their refusal to accept the responsibilities that go along with rights.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I would suspect a false flag operation specifically aimed at achieving this outcome.

Curly Judge

Chinasea wrote: »

OK, so this poster, despite having gone through all the hysteria of this week still comes on a forum sprouting this kind of unbridled disdain.

This prejudicial attitude that the poster has expressed towards the Roma family ties in with what the senior Garda concluded after the fairly recent horrendous and utterly brutal murder of 18-year-old Marioara Rostas, which I link in case it has skipped your mind or you missed it.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/kidnapped-gang-raped-tortured-shot-and-dumped-but-no-one-cares-187340.html

How did you arrive at the conclusion that I was less offended at the murder of this girl than you of the superior noble sensibilities.
I do know one thing..... if legislation was proposed to give those same Gardai powers to bring the thug who gave her such a dreadful death to justice, you , and your cohort would be among the first to oppose it.

Curly Judge

mango salsa wrote: »

No

The child in Greece is Roma.

There is no pattern at all.

Is this some kind of new EU cross border integration?
A child born on one country to one set of parents can be handed over willy nilly to another set of parents in a different country without a scrap of paperwork to say who she is or where she came from?
Come ooooon!

Curly Judge

Red21 wrote: »

I came accross this http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007060

This kinda stuff has gone on throughout history all over the world and is currently going on today.
The depressing thing about racism/nationalism/divisions/bigatary, is that people who make the division between themselves and the minority group are the same people who'll quiet easily make the same division between themselves and an oppressing group, they think this has nothing to do with them.
What do you think happens when enough racists get together.

An amazing leap!
You should be in the Olympics.
People who suggest that Roma and Travellers have a case to answer regarding their behaviour in a modern society are now placed on a par with Josef Mengele?

BlaasForRafa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Wrong, they weren't freakishly lucky at all. Almost all roma have black hair and brown eyes but sometimes there are rare exceptions, this can happen with black people too, there are a small number of albino black people in many african countries.

As to the Roma and their "culture", I came across this story about a family of Roma on trial for a massive amount of robberies whose defence is that thieving and selling child brides is part of their culture so they should be let off because their practicing their traditions.

You don't get what a massive coincidence this is? Blonde girl who 'couldn't possibly' be the child of a Roma couple in fact turns out to be the biological child of another Roma couple? You couldn't make it up.

So ALL THREE of those blond kids taken away by the police are actually Roma. Maria was illegally adopted but was herself born into total poverty to Bulgarian Roma gypsies. She's not a Northern European girl who had been snatched off the street, like many were originally suggesting.

So where's the story here? All I see is racism all over the place. If Maria had been dark skinned, nobody would have ever given a sh*t that a Roma girl from one family was living with another Roma family. But because there was a chance she might have been a European white girl, everyone was up in arms and calling all Roma child snatchers.

Depressing.

old hippy

sonny jim bob jones wrote: »

The unfortunate aspect of this is that it will be used to overshadow and stifle any debate on Roma's and their lack of integration with 'settled' society and their refusal to accept the responsibilities that go along with rights.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I would suspect a false flag operation specifically aimed at achieving this outcome.

Hmm, this talk of having any debate stifled is familiar, if I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd reckon I've heard that baseless accusation before. But I couldn't have, you being new to the forums.

So let me repeat myself - there is no attempt to close down "debate" - debate happens about Roma/Travellers on hundreds of similar threads each year. What I hope to see is less racism in our society and the disgusting apologists for racism to be met with the contempt they deserve.

token101

Grayson wrote: »

And i do think adoption etc should be done above board, but if the legality was the only wrong doing here there wasn't actually anything morally wrong done. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that the child was mistreated or wasn't in a loving family.

The man from the couple told a Greek court he never wanted her. Now, if this was just something where the child was adopted but they just didn't fill in a few forms, why would he say something like that?

As for the real 'mother'? "Ruseva said she was willing to take Maria back so long as the tests confirmed she was the real mother, AFP reported". That child should be taken as far away from those people as physically possible so that fine culture can't poison her life any further.

miss tickle

Further developments in Bulgaria apparently,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476772/DNA-test-confirms-Bulgarian-woman-IS-natural-mother-blonde-haired-Maria.html,

Quote.

Neighbour Stanka Boyanova, 21, said: ‘Sasha is in hiding. She is frightened that she will be arrested and sent to jail.

The rest of the article gives an insight into the grim reality of daily life. There is an interview with one resident, where he outlines why he feels women may be possibly selling their children through economic necessity.

LionelNashe

Horrid Henry wrote: »

I absolutely would and I'm not ashamed of my opinion.

Hopefully the cops have learned something from what happened this week, even if you haven't.

wildkart

are people concerned or just scare mongering,,i think the roma people are a target because of the colour of there skin,and if they have a child with blond hair it seems to get some people thinking,but then again it has to be checked my the police,what if they dident check and something happened that child.its a difficult one,but we must protect our children,i feel sorry for any family that have there child taken away,i dont think there was a choice in most cases,

darkpagandeath

wildkart wrote: »

are people concerned or just scare mongering,,i think the roma people are a target because of the colour of there skin,and if they have a child with blond hair it seems to get some people thinking,but then again it has to be checked my the police,what if they dident check and something happened that child.its a difficult one,but we must protect our children,i feel sorry for any family that have there child taken away,i dont think there was a choice in most cases,

So why is the Minister for Children already saying the law may need to be looked into before any of the reports have come out ? Maybe they realise what motivated these case's

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1026/482847-fitzgerald-child-care-act/

wildkart

the motivation is concern,but that could be seen as racist,so who wins,i heard a roma solicitor from the uk tearing a superintendent to pieces during the week about what happened and so close to calling the police racist,and the minister for children wont change a thing,we cant upset the minority,

Frank Grimes

wildkart wrote: »

the motivation is concern,but that could be seen as racist,so who wins,i heard a roma solicitor from the uk tearing a superintendent to pieces during the week about what happened and so close to calling the police racist,and the minister for children wont change a thing,we cant upset the minority,

No definitely not, it's not like 'we' took children from them twice in the space of a couple of days for having the wrong hair colour.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Just read about what Rob Heffernan tweeted re these cases, "Unbelievable dirty Scumbags, they should all be shipped out!"
It is an absolute disgrace that a racist like that should be receiving state funding from the sports council and be representing Ireland.:mad:

Frank Grimes

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Just read about what Rob Heffernan tweeted re these cases, "Unbelievable dirty Scumbags, they should all be shipped out!"
It is an absolute disgrace that a racist like that should be receiving state funding from the sports council and be representing Ireland.:mad:

Maybe he'll practice what he preaches and ship himself out. Although he seems to have repented so maybe not.

crockholm

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Just read about what Rob Heffernan tweeted re these cases, "Unbelievable dirty Scumbags, they should all be shipped out!"
It is an absolute disgrace that a racist like that should be receiving state funding from the sports council and be representing Ireland.:mad:

Racists need funding too,to deny them would be discriminatory. If racists pay taxes, should they not also be allowed to reap the rewards the same as everyone else:P

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Frank Grimes wrote: »

Maybe he'll practice what he preaches and ship himself out. Although he seems to have repented so maybe not.

Hopefully he will be prosecuted under our Incitement to Hatred laws.

miss tickle

wildkart wrote: »

the motivation is concern,but that could be seen as racist,so who wins,i heard a roma solicitor from the uk tearing a superintendent to pieces during the week about what happened and so close to calling the police racist,and the minister for children wont change a thing,we cant upset the minority,

Can't agree more, and I think that the events of the last week have shown that despite the ample use of the word racism with regard to how investigations were carried out, it has highlighted with thanks to the media (despite some very loose journalistic licence) the fact that children can be bought and sold like any other commodity. But it would make sense that the operations are sophisticated, for example leading the mother to believe that her child will have a better future, ( the illusion of a wealthy western family offering her child a better standard of life) and require the collaboration of professionals in countries with lax rules in relation to guardianship and adoption. What this weeks events have shown us is that more restrictions have to be put in place within free movement areas like the EU to eradicate not just child but all human trafficking.

Curly Judge

crockholm wrote: »

Racists need funding too,to deny them would be discriminatory. If racists pay taxes, should they not also be allowed to reap the rewards the same as everyone else:P

By all means throw him out and replace him with a one legged PC darling.

darkpagandeath

Curly Judge wrote: »

By all means throw him out and replace him with a one legged PC darling.

Why do you have to be PC to find what happened in this case Racist it's pretty obvious it was.

Curly Judge

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why do you have to be PC to find what happened in this case Racist it's pretty obvious it was.

I find the pompous, scattergun accusations of racism on this thread farcical and quite frankly hysterical.
It's as if a bunch of first year sociology students have gotten together on this site and are vying to outdo each other with ascending levels of faux outrage.
To answer your question as posed above: It's not obvious to me. I think that at worst they made a mistake. At best they intervened to prevent a possibly greater evil. The fact that the little girl in Dublin and the little boy in Westmeath were traumatized in the process was deeply regrettable,I'll give you that.
But racism...I don't think so!

roughneck

i agree with curly judge,if there was even the slightest doubt ,which there was ,i.e the couple in greece did not have right documents for the child .i have no children but i would be a little reassured by the fact that police forces are checking up on situations that look dodgy ,so what if 9 out of10 are legit its the one your looking for and thats a result .

Red21

Curly Judge wrote: »

An amazing leap!
You should be in the Olympics.
People who suggest that Roma and Travellers have a case to answer regarding their behaviour in a modern society are now placed on a par with Josef Mengele?

If i've an issue with someones behaviour i've an issue with that individual person, I don't extend the problem out to include their family friends nationality race etc. It doesn't matter if they're black, white,atheist,muslim,red hair, blue eyes, so on and so on. Is this not how you live?
I take it you're one of the "people who suggest that Roma and Travellers have a case to answer regarding their behaviour in a modern society" if so, how have you come to view, that rather than deal with people individually you'd take the whole race or ethnic group and view it as one entity?
In relation to josef M, I was pointing out the consequences of these type of divisions.