Biting the Hand that feeds?

Chicken Ryan

An asylum seeker family have decided to challenge provisions governing asylum seekers allowance. Since the system was established over 775 million euro was spent on providing for asylum seekers.

The family consider that the free accommodation, free meals and 80 euro allowance per month is not adequate for their needs and have decided to avail of free legal aid, a the bill I'm assuming the tax payer will no doubt pick up, to challenge the provision.

I'd love to know what is it they want the money for considering they have everything paid for them by the Irish tax payer.

Is this a case of biting the hand that feeds?

Big Nasty

You forgot to mention the free car and child buggy at every bus stop.

Sulla Felix

What do they think they should be getting in addition to what they do already?

Chicken Ryan

Sulla Felix wrote: »

What do they think they should be getting in addition to what they do already?

Exactly my point.

JuliusCaesar

I think that you'll find that there isn't any dignity in not having any freedom of choice.

To live in appaling and overcrowded conditions, to have to eat canteen food which may never encompass the food you generally eat, to have only 20 quid a week in hand to buy necessities with, to be stuck there for years, and not know when you might get out - these conditions couldn't be better designed to bring about depression and anxiety in people.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Blame Joe Duffy; he raised this whole issue 2 weeks ago. If was so obvious he wanted to get some sort of campaign going and anybody who disagreed was a racist. So a very one-sided 3 days of calls followed.

downonthefarm

if they were at home they would be getting **** all,they should be happy they are getting anything at all

oppenheimer1

Sulla Felix wrote: »

What do they think they should be getting in addition to what they do already?

At a guess I imagine they want to be let work and leave direct provision.

Chicken Ryan

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I think that you'll find that there isn't any dignity in not having any freedom of choice.

To live in appaling and overcrowded conditions, to have to eat canteen food which may never encompass the food you generally eat, to have only 20 quid in hand to buy necessities with, to be stuck there for years, and not know when you might get out - these conditions couldn't be better designed to bring about depression and anxiety in people.

I know a 1 or 2 Irish people who are in far worse off circumstances.

oppenheimer1

downonthefarm wrote: »

if they were at home they would be getting **** all,they should be happy they are getting anything at all

Should this be the standard we should aim to exceed?

WoollyRedHat

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

I know a 1 or 2 Irish people who are in far worse off circumstances.

That is not right either.

There is a perception that these people who are effectively in limbo..with their destinities in the balance, are out there to cheat the system and con the nation in which they are seeking residence.. it is an utterly unfair and reactionary one, which does not seek to either understand or demonstrate compassion, and a mindset that is unwavering.. Do you think it's an easy decision to have to be uprooted from the country you were born in? That they possibly lived an even more pithy existence in their home country is no good reason to justify or deny basic human rights. They are appealing the decision on legal foundations which exist to establish a minimal standard that identifies and sets a standard for basic human rights and expectations. These people can be productive to our society and are not often the type of scroungers and spongers that many would like to believe them to be.

When the Irish people were often forced emigrate because of social hostility and contempt from their own government, they did so because of neccesity. They were helped by their new countries that took them in and treated them with dignity, and went on to become contributing members of their new society. I'd like to think we could do the same...

MadsL

Sulla Felix wrote: »

What do they think they should be getting in addition to what they do already?

The right to work?

downonthefarm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Should this be the standard we should aim to exceed?

no but they have no right to be moaning,

Muise...

Sulla Felix wrote: »

What do they think they should be getting in addition to what they do already?

asylum

Chicken Ryan

Muise... wrote: »

asylum

Before their application is even decided?

MadsL

downonthefarm wrote: »

no but they have no right to be moaning,

Moaning?

Let's put you in a caravan park on 20 quid a week and see how cheery you are after a year of it?

Guy:Incognito

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I think that you'll find that there isn't any dignity in not having any freedom of choice.

To live in appaling and overcrowded conditions, to have to eat canteen food which may never encompass the food you generally eat, to have only 20 quid a week in hand to buy necessities with, to be stuck there for years, and not know when you might get out - these conditions couldn't be better designed to bring about depression and anxiety in people.

No one is forcing them to come here. I'm sure the rules and details are available online.

Karl Stein

downonthefarm wrote: »

if they were at home they would be getting **** all

Not all asylum seekers are poor.

Guy:Incognito

Are there figures available as to the amount of asylum seekers here historically? How many people were queuing to come to Ireland for asylum in the 80's for example?

theblaqueguy

They get a roof over their heads and food to eat what more do they need? I dont think they deserve anything else until they are granted asylum I think they should be kicked out and let some homeless people take there place I'm sure they'd appreciate it more than these ungrateful people

scudzilla

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I think that you'll find that there isn't any dignity in not having any freedom of choice.

To live in appaling and overcrowded conditions, to have to eat canteen food which may never encompass the food you generally eat, to have only 20 quid a week in hand to buy necessities with, to be stuck there for years, and not know when you might get out - these conditions couldn't be better designed to bring about depression and anxiety in people.

They can always go back home, i'm sure what they're getting here is far better than what they were getting back home

downonthefarm

MadsL wrote: »

Moaning?

Let's put you in a caravan park on 20 quid a week and see how cheery you are after a year of it?

if it was a choice of that or being hunted like an animal for my religious beliefs
i would take the trailer park

RandomName2

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I think that you'll find that there isn't any dignity in not having any freedom of choice.

To live in appaling and overcrowded conditions, to have to eat canteen food which may never encompass the food you generally eat, to have only 20 quid a week in hand to buy necessities with, to be stuck there for years, and not know when you might get out - these conditions couldn't be better designed to bring about depression and anxiety in people.

Oh sure, if you are a migrant worker, that would make sense.

These are supposed to be refugees - only here because the alternative would be death.

"I am only seeking asylum here because I was driven from my home by armed men. Thank you for taking me in.

What's this bullsht? Overcrowded and limited meal choice? I'll sue your asses Ireland!"

Chicken Ryan

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Are there figures available as to the amount of asylum seekers here historically? How many people were queuing to come to Ireland for asylum in the 80's for example?

Something like 90 per cent of asylum seeker applications dropped following the recession from a peak in the early 2000s. Im not one to jump to conclusions but the facts speak for themselves

Lux23

The system may be acceptable if people were there for a couple of months, but asylum applications can take years!

downonthefarm

:rolleyes:wonder why that was

Chicken Ryan

Lux23 wrote: »

The system may be acceptable if people were there for a couple of months, but asylum applications can take years!

Welcome to Ireland

hansfrei

We're broke. That should be a factor.in any asylum aplication. As soon as we're let get back on our feet we should return to be being a favourite location for the less well off.

MadsL

theblaqueguy wrote: »

They get a roof over their heads and food to eat what more do they need? I dont think they deserve anything else until they are granted asylum I think they should be kicked out and let some homeless people take there place I'm sure they'd appreciate it more than these ungrateful people

Some of them are professionals such as doctors or lawyers.

The right to work would be pretty high on those "what more do they want?" list.

MadsL

hansfrei wrote: »

We're broke. That should be a factor.in any asylum aplication. As soon as we're let get back on our feet we should return to be being a favourite location for the less well off.

Just tear up the Geneva Convention is it?

MadsL

Diplomatic Arsonist wrote: »

Burn his house down, that'll teach him!

House?

Mosney?

Chicken Ryan

MadsL wrote: »

Some of them are professionals such as doctors or lawyers.

The right to work would be pretty high on those "what more do they want?" list.

Irish people have just as much a right to work as they do but hey, not everybody is that fortunate in this economic climate to find work so why should they be any different?

RandomName2

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

They were helped by their new countries that took them in and treated them with dignity, and went on to become contributing members of their new society. I'd like to think we could do the same...

Helped how?

The Irish predominantly emigrated to England, America and Australia where they ended up in crowded, horrible conditions, and were typically discriminated against.

"Help wanted. No Irish need apply" was a typical enough sight in New York

And... and.. this was the country of opportunity. America, which had no pressure on space or resources.

Not saying that it wasn't absolutely necessary that Irish emigrants and refugees had the bolt hole of the US and Commonwealth countries from which they might eventually escape poverty - but this cock and bull story about being welcomed abroad, being trotted out every time, gets on my wick.

up for anything

theblaqueguy wrote: »

They get a roof over their heads and food to eat what more do they need? I dont think they deserve anything else until they are granted asylum I think they should be kicked out and let some homeless people take there place I'm sure they'd appreciate it more than these ungrateful people

Are these mutually exclusive? Can't we provide for both?

keeponhurling

Hi there,
I just arrived on my high horse and was about to accuse a few posters of being racists, however I am unable to ascertain from the link in the OP what is the skin colour if this asylum seeking family.

If anyone can help with this info, even the nationality would be useful.

I think it's important for how this After Hours discussion might develop

Stereomaniac

Woah, that is a quote from another thread I thought, or is this user just posting the same thing in each thread. I am in the twilight zone here. Maybe they could reopen Mosney with them working in it!

hansfrei

MadsL wrote: »

Just tear up the Geneva Convention is it?

The GC could apply to our own people too. What do you want. Is it my fault we're broke?

Idbatterim

if they were at home they would be getting **** all,they should be happy they are getting anything at all

I wonder if we went to their countries what we would be "entitled" too? a bullet in the head if you dared question or condemn their system I reckon!

RandomName2

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

Irish people have just as much a right to work as they do but hey, not everybody is that fortunate in this economic climate to find work so why should they be any different?

No, to be fair, people applying for asylum on a refugee status are not allowed work. This is because they are only supposed to be here in order to seek safety.

Migrant workers, who enter on a work visa (or through free movement within EU) can, of course, work.

inocybe

If the hand is feeding you processed crap... being able to cook your own food is pretty basic.

Muise...

hansfrei wrote: »

The GC could apply to our own people too. What do you want. Is it my fault we're broke?

Nope, the GC is about international humanitarian laws. To out-pedant MadsL, the refugee parts are actually in the Geneva Protocol bit.

It's the limbo that's the problem here - rather than streamline the system of applications and endless appeals, the State seems to be playing chicken with asylum seekers by making the waiting period even harder on them.

WoollyRedHat

RandomName2 wrote: »

Helped how?

The Irish predominantly emigrated to England, America and Australia where they ended up in crowded, horrible conditions, and were typically discriminated against.

"Help wanted. No Irish need apply" was a typical enough sight in New York

And... and.. this was the country of opportunity. America, which had no pressure on space or resources.

Not saying that it wasn't absolutely necessary that Irish emigrants and refugees had the bolt hole of the US and Commonwealth countries from which they might eventually escape poverty - but this cock and bull story about being welcomed abroad, being trotted out every time, gets on my wick.

I am aware of the environment that some Irish had to endure and of the squalor and of the tenements and all that sort of thing and I did not wish to propagate any sort of myth or engage in overindulgent romanticism, as I would be guilty of the very type of policy in which our country has been historically guilty of, but it's neither black or white.

I was referring more to a greater social understanding and accomadation, where they were no longer strangulated or limited by a controlling moral code. They were helped when they went to England, such as incidents of pregnancy.. or greater economic opportunity than was made possible there.Of course there was still impoverishment and equally discrimination, which I believe should not be a topic of debate in the 21st century... we should not reduce people to the bare essentials and treated little better than animals and to witness human suffferings such as tenaments and poor social opportunities and conditions,

MadsL

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

Irish people have just as much a right to work as they do but hey, not everybody is that fortunate in this economic climate to find work so why should they be any different?

Huh? Irish people have nothing preventing them from working, Asylum Seekers are prohibited from working.

hansfrei wrote: »

The GC could apply to our own people too. What do you want. Is it my fault we're broke?

You want Ireland to dump all of its international obligations despite being bailed out by the IMF. Hmm...what does the I stand for again?

Amirani

theblaqueguy wrote: »

They get a roof over their heads and food to eat what more do they need? I dont think they deserve anything else until they are granted asylum I think they should be kicked out and let some homeless people take there place I'm sure they'd appreciate it more than these ungrateful people

Ungrateful? Are you serious?

Stereomaniac

I guess if our laws allow it, they can appeal it if they want. The mechanisms are in place for them to do so, therefore I feel that I am not in a position to point the finger or to judge them.

oppenheimer1

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Are there figures available as to the amount of asylum seekers here historically? How many people were queuing to come to Ireland for asylum in the 80's for example?

Very few. It was only in the late nineties that Ireland became a destination for asylum sekers. The system that was in place at the time was ill equipped to deal with the volume of applicants (there were roughly 12,000 applicants in 2002). This lead to a tightening of regulations to prevent the system being abused and a collapse in asylum seeker applicants followed (roughly 1500 in 2012).

Of those that apply here, the acceptance rate is small, somewhere around 8-9% get granted asylum status. Only Luxembourg, Greece and Cyprus have lower rates than Ireland in Europe.

discus

MadsL wrote: »

Huh? Irish people have nothing preventing them from working, Asylum Seekers are prohibited from working.

There's a reason for that - so asylum is not used as a backdoor by people who are looking to avoid getting a visa.

cassi

Idbatterim wrote: »

I wonder if we went to their countries what we would be "entitled" too? a bullet in the head if you dared question or condemn their system I reckon!

How does that make any difference to how they are treated here?

discus

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I think that you'll find that there isn't any dignity in not having any freedom of choice.

To live in appaling and overcrowded conditions, to have to eat canteen food which may never encompass the food you generally eat, to have only 20 quid a week in hand to buy necessities with, to be stuck there for years, and not know when you might get out - these conditions couldn't be better designed to bring about depression and anxiety in people.

So, what should we do, pay everyone who arrives to seek asylum a fair wage and provide their food and housing too?

Days 298

Sounds terrible wonder why they even came here.

Chicken Ryan

MadsL wrote: »

Huh? Irish people have nothing preventing them from working, Asylum Seekers are prohibited from working.

Its hard enough as it is to get a job with the amount of legal migrant workers living here never mind throwing in asylum applicants whose applications haven't even been decided. They could be totally bogus for all you know.