Does Gerry Adams deserve more credit?

first doyle

Gerry Adams gets a lot of stick for supporting the PIRA's armed campaign during the troubles but he rarely if ever gets credit for his role in the peace process. Just recently he was at a commemoration marking the Warrington Bombing which is testament to the strength of the man's character. However not all were happy at his presence.

People who deserve just as much media attention as the Warrington victims are Irish victims of British atrocities. But this thread is not about that.

Like it or not, Gerry Adams is the main reason why the PIRA ended it's armed campaign in the first place and a lot of the peace and prosperity in the north of Ireland is owed to him.

Do you think Gerry Adams deserves more credit than he gets? To paint Gerry Adams as the main architect of all IRA violence in Ireland and Britain is to deny Britain's part in Ireland's conflict and is also offensive to Irish people who have lost their lives at the hands of Britain's security forces.

D1stant

If Gerry Adams admitted he was a senior IRA leader until recently I would respect him a lot more. The man is a coward and a liar. The fact he is a TD sickens me.

Vito Corleone

No.

patty o chair 55

More credit? £32 million wasn't it?

mattjack

Is he with Vodafone or Meteor ? I like Vodafone myself .Their four euro Super Top Up credit thing is handy.

Jawgap

Yes - his childcare policies have been egregiously overlooked.

funt cucker

D1stant wrote: »

If Gerry Adams admitted he was a senior IRA leader until recently I would respect him a lot more. The man is a coward and a liar. The fact he is a TD sickens me.

More than Haughey and Bertie? The two C%nts that really ruined this country. I would give Gerry a go at it, sure the junkies on O' Connell street greeting the tourists have better ideas.

Valetta

first doyle wrote: »

People who deserve just as much media attention as the Warrington victims are Irish victims of British atrocities. But this thread is not about that.

.

Why did you mention it, so?

theblaqueguy

Ya I think he deserves more credit for what he did in helping getting peace in the north but he also did bad things too so I think that is why people dont give him the credit he deserves

My name is URL

I'd say that SF and the general republican movement would be better off without him at this stage tbh. And I say that as someone who actually has a certain amount of respect for the man. Himself and the other old-hats should move aside graciously and allow the rest of the party to try and become something which isn't automatically derided for the past actions of a handful of its members.

Banjo String

D1stant wrote: »

If Gerry Adams admitted he was a senior IRA leader until recently I would respect him a lot more. The man is a coward and a liar. The fact he is a TD sickens me.

Maybe he can't admit to something if it isn't true? Even if it id, the consequences to the peace process would be devastating.

I really don't see how it's relevant now in peaceful times.

Ditto Eamonn Gilmore for that matter.

Fr_Dougal

I think history books will look kindly on Adams.

sarabroderick

Yeah his strategy of blackmailing his way into office is to be admired. Likewise his loyalty and silence over his sex offender brother is admirable

Karl Stein

D1stant wrote: »

The man is a coward...

If there's one thing Gerry Adams isn't it's a coward. The man spent the best part of his adult life on the run from the Brits and Loyalists.

Can you imagine any of the watery ****s we have in the Dail being interested in the job if they had a similar level of stress? No.

The fact he is a TD sickens me.

Don't you just hate it when democracy produces the 'wrong' result? So tough shit on you.

coolhull

At this stage, if Adams swore he was leader of the IRA, I still wouldn't believe him.
A lot of the time, he's honest and truthful.......then he wakes up and starts talking

dirtyden

Banjo String wrote: »

Maybe he can't admit to something if it isn't true? Even if it id, the consequences to the peace process would be devastating.

I really don't see how it's relevant now in peaceful times.

Ditto Eamonn Gilmore for that matter.

Well I think someone who will lie about his past so flagrantly may not be the best person to trust with power. Now saying that many of our previous leaders have been liars but usually just about thievery rather than murder.

wazky

dirtyden wrote: »

Well I think someone who will lie about his past so flagrantly may not be the best person to trust with power. Now saying that many of our previous leaders have been liars but usually just about thievery rather than murder.

Sure wasn't Charlie and a few of the good oul boys involved with smuggling guns in?, ah but we will look past that because that's totally different.

Banjo String

dirtyden wrote: »

Well I think someone who will lie about his past so flagrantly may not be the best person to trust with power. Now saying that many of our previous leaders have been liars but usually just about thievery rather than murder.

Who says he's lying?

You'd think even the Brits would have pinned something on the man if they had something. Y'know, seeing as how they weren't exactly his greatest fans for the best part of fifty years.

If you've a source that actually proves otherwise, put it up.

Karl Stein

wazky wrote: »

the good oul boys involved with smuggling guns

And did they ever need to stop loyalists from doing this type of thing while the RUC looked on.

Make no mistake about it it was guns in the hands of Republicans that put an end to that shit. Loyalists weren't so interested when they realised there was a chance they'd get some of their own medicine and then began their sectarian murder campaign against innocent unarmed Catholics.

funt cucker

Banjo String wrote: »

Who says he's lying?

You'd think even the Brits would have pinned something on the man if they had something. Y'know, seeing as how they weren't exactly his greatest fans for the best part of fifty years.

If you've a source that actually proves otherwise, put it up.

Sure they were tapping him for long enough, to portray a persona as an IRA leader.

Banjo String

funt cucker wrote: »

Sure they were tapping him for long enough, to portray a persona as an IRA leader.

Yet not enough to convict/prosecute?

dirtyden

wazky wrote: »

Sure wasn't Charlie and a few of the good oul boys involved with smuggling guns in?, ah but we will look past that because that's totally different.

What? That is relevant to what I said how, or are you just randomly quoting me? What does that have to do with Gerry Adams refusing to admit he was on the IRA army council, and was a leading active member of the IRA in Belfast?

funt cucker

Banjo String wrote: »

Yet not enough to convict/prosecute?

Same as Bertie and Haughey.

first doyle

Valetta wrote: »

Why did you mention it, so?

Because the media has a habit of highlighting British victims of the troubles just as much as they have a habit of highlighting Adams role in the troubles while at the same time being completely ignorant of Irish victims and Britain's role.

Banjo String

dirtyden wrote: »

What? That is relevant to what I said how, or are you just randomly quoting me? What does that have to do with Gerry Adams refusing to admit he was on the IRA army council, and was a leading active member of the IRA in Belfast?

You didn't get me that source so

razorgil

My name is URL wrote: »

I'd say that SF and the general republican movement would be better off without him at this stage tbh. And I say that as someone who actually has a certain amount of respect for the man. Himself and the other old-hats should move aside graciously and allow the rest of the party to try and become something which isn't automatically derided for the past actions of a handful of its members.

will never happen. adams and co. believe they have earned their chance at democracy through the "sacrifices" they made in the past. adams has no intention of maoving aside. he bullied his way into the dáil for fúck sake, and he is of the (misgiuded) opinion that because of his pira past, he has some relevance to modern or future ireland, bullshít.

seminarian

No.

wazky

dirtyden wrote: »

What? That is relevant to what I said how, or are you just randomly quoting me?

You mentioned how previous leaders lied to grease their own pockets but not necessarily about murder, I pointed out that Charles Haughey was once involved with gun running.

Now gun running is where you acquire arms through illegal means usually for criminals, gangs, paramilitaries etc etc.

And guns fire little lead bullet which usually kill people.

Now do you see why I quoted you?

Wattle

If he was behind the order to disappear Jean McConville I'd find that very hard to forgive.

Banjo String

funt cucker wrote: »

Same as Bertie and Haughey.

I never mentioned either of them two?

But let's get this straight. He would have been under intense and unrivalled surveillance by the British government (RUC, MI5, various army regiments etc) widely accepted as some of the leading intelligence agencies in the world for nigh on fifty years and they never pinned anything on him to convict him of IRA Membership or activities.

Yet you reckon he is spoofing, based on what exactly?

A haunch is it?

funt cucker

Banjo String wrote: »

I never mentioned either of them two?

But let's get this straight. He would have been under intense and unrivalled surveillance by the British government (RUC, MI5, various army regiments etc) widely accepted as some of the leading intelligence agencies in the world for nigh on fifty years and they never pinned anything on him to convict him of IRA Membership or activities.

Yet you reckon he is spoofing, based on what exactly?

A haunch is it?

I think you are taking me up wrong here, I'm on your side, I said I'd give him a chance on the first page, because Bertie and co, are the result of our problems, I think Adams has more integrity than all off Fine Gael and Fianna Fail put together.

Nodin

razorgil wrote: »

will never happen. adams and co. believe they have earned their chance at democracy through the "sacrifices" they made in the past. adams has no intention of maoving aside. he bullied his way into the dáil for fúck sake, and he is of the (misgiuded) opinion that because of his pira past, he has some relevance to modern or future ireland, bullshít.

He was elected to the Dail, like the rest.

dirtyden

wazky wrote: »

You mentioned how previous leaders lied to grease their own pockets but not necessarily about murder, I pointed out that Charles Haughey was once involved with gun running.

Now gun running is where you acquire arms through illegal means usually for criminals, gangs, paramilitaries etc etc.

And guns fire little lead bullet which usually kill people.

Now do you see why I quoted you?

Haughey was acquitted of gun running you know?

funt cucker

dirtyden wrote: »

Haughey was acquitted of gun running you know?

He still did it, he bought the system. Had everyone in his pocket.

Lingua Franca

I liked the part when his niece told him that her dad had been raping her so the next day he reported her mother to Social Services for keeping a dirty house.

Any shred of respect I could ever have had for the man is lost.

He should do the decent thing and resign.

razorgil

Nodin wrote: »

He was elected to the Dail, like the rest.

of course he was. arthur morgan, three years his junior, and only in the dáil since 2002, out of the blue decides not to run for re-election, and in steps gerry, who, then resigns his seat in parliament. co-incidence i suppose.

Stabshauptmann

Question from OP: Does Adams deserve credit for his part in the peace process?

Answer from AH: No, because he played a part in the Troubles

Me thinks the point is lost of the great unwashed. Does the gunman who puts down his gun and gets his comrades to do the same deserve a bit of credit? imo, yes.

Banjo String

dirtyden wrote: »

Haughey was acquitted of gun running you know?

Whereas Gerry wasn't so lucky.

Oops. Wait.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

first doyle wrote: »

Because the media has a habit of highlighting British victims of the troubles just as much as they have a habit of highlighting Adams role in the troubles while at the same time being completely ignorant of Irish victims and Britain's role.

Taking your own thread off topic?
Your own feelings towards the murderers who ruined this country for so many years and SF are clear from your contributions to other threads.

Adams should admit his involvement. As someone who lived through the horror of the "troubles" and had it visit his own neighbourhood on several occasions, I wouldn't give him credit for anything except prolonging the pain and delaying the political solution in the North for decades. Credit? Never!

Manassas61

Charlie Rock wrote: »

And did they ever need to stop loyalists from doing this type of thing while the RUC looked on.

Make no mistake about it it was guns in the hands of Republicans that put an end to that shit. Loyalists weren't so interested when they realised there was a chance they'd get some of their own medicine and then began their sectarian murder campaign against innocent unarmed Catholics.

While the PIRA bombed pubs to try and kill innocent people, including children. Great heroes indeed.

To answer the OP, no he shouldn't. The very fact that he turned an eye to his child abusing brother is beyond belief. Probably the worst politician the Island has produced.

Manassas61

Wattle wrote: »

If he was behind the order to disappear Jean McConville I'd find that very hard to forgive.

You won't be forgiving.

mattjack

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Question from OP: Does Adams deserve credit for his part in the peace process?

Answer from AH: No, because he played a part in the Troubles

Me thinks the point is lost of the great unwashed. Does the gunman who puts down his gun and gets his comrades to do the same deserve a bit of credit? imo, yes.

So he was a gunman ....

wazky

dirtyden wrote: »

Haughey was acquitted of gun running you know?

Adams was never convicted of planting bombs but people always connect the two.

first doyle

Manassas61 wrote: »

While the PIRA bombed pubs to try and kill innocent people, including children. Great heroes indeed.

To answer the OP, no he shouldn't. The very fact that he turned an eye to his child abusing brother is beyond belief. Probably the worst politician the Island has produced.

You forgot to mention his role in the murder of Jean McConville and the Northern Bank Robbery.

What will they blame him for next, creating cancer?

The only thing Adams is guilty of is being an Irish Republican and that's what they hate about him most, what he represents.

Banjo String

Adeline Abundant Penniless wrote: »

Taking your own thread off topic?
Your own feelings towards the murderers who ruined this country for so many years and SF are clear from your contributions to other threads.

Adams should admit his involvement. As someone who lived through the horror of the "troubles" and had it visit his own neighbourhood on several occasions, I wouldn't give him credit for anything except prolonging the pain and delaying the political solution in the North for decades. Credit? Never!

Yeah. We should've just let the Brits walk all over the catholic population in the north. The cheek of them. Wanting civil rights and that.

Balmed Out

Charlie Rock wrote: »

If there's one thing Gerry Adams isn't it's a coward. The man spent the best part of his adult life on the run from the Brits and Loyalists.

One of the most accidentally funny things I've read in a long time.

Eight Ball

Huge respect for the guy given what he achieved when he turned his back on bullets and bombs.

Banjo String

Manassas61 wrote: »

While the PIRA bombed pubs to try and kill innocent people, including children. Great heroes indeed.

To answer the OP, no he shouldn't. The very fact that he turned an eye to his child abusing brother is beyond belief. Probably the worst politician the Island has produced.

Welcome back Keith me auld mucker.

funt cucker

I think what will happen in the near future is that Gerry will retire from politics, Sinn Fein probably want this anyway, It will distance them from the past. A bit like Mick O' Leary trying to change RYR at the moment, it will be tough.

But when it happens, maybe then the Irish electorate will not associate them with murder etc... It's all about perception. Then the Irish voters will vote them in and the evil overlords in Brussels will summon them to give them their agenda for the following year.

And we will go round and round in circles again..

mikeym

Slighty off topic but its inevitable that Sinn Fein will be the biggest opposition party in the Dail.

Labour Are Fine Gaels glove puppets and are going to suffer like the Greens and the PD's.

wazky

mikeym wrote: »

Labour Are Fine Gaels glove puppets and are going to suffer like the Greens and the PD's.

Safe to say that Enda's hand is firmly up Gilmore's arse.