Should I give in to Eid?

equivariant

I give lectures as part of the day job and I have been confronted with the following dilemma.

One of the students in my class is Muslin and has requested that I cancel the lecture on Tuesday 15, since that is Eid (end of Ramadan apparently) which is a day of celebration for Muslims. This is a very small class and it would be possible for me to go along with this request and rearrange the class for another day without too much bother - also I am fairly sure that the non Muslim students in the class would not object to a rearrangement. On the other hand, the tone of the request is quite strident and part of me wants to say "why should I make special arrangements which are not part of the regular timetable?" And if I accede to this request, where would I draw the line (suppose there was 1 Muslim in a class of 2 or 5, or 10, or 100)

I am not sure which way I will go on this one and I would like to have a better reason than 'I don't like religion' to refuse this request. At what point does principle outweigh the normal tendency to be reasonable and accomodating towards another person's request?

Thoughts?

lynski

Well if your Catholic students asked you to cancel a lecture for Ash Wednesday/Good Friday, your Jewish Student for Purim,your pagan bealtine?
Unless you are working in a Muslim school I would say no, it is a secular institution and you abide by its calendar.

Kiwi in IE

Not sure what I'd do in this situation. Maybe allow the other students to decide. If a reschedule does not inconvenience anyone else and they all agree to a different time, then I would probably go ahead. If you can't arrange another time that suits every other student though, I would not change the timetable. There is no reason why religious reasons on this day should be put above someone else's reasons (childcare for example) on another day. The class was scheduled for that day originally and unless it suits everyone else to change, I would decline the request. The student who cannot make it due to religious commitments can be given notes after the class and readings to do to cover the lesson perhaps.

magicbastarder

my first reaction would be to punt it up the chain in whatever institution you lecture in, at least to find out their policy.

Kiwi in IE

Actually, just read the OP again, if he was strident, demanding and expectant in his request I would give him Lynskis answer. If he had approached it in a humble fashion I would maybe put it to the other students.

wes

I would go with no. When I was in college, and it was Eid, I would normally skip lectures that day, and get notes from one of the other lads. If one of the lectures was particularly important, I would just go in for that one. No need to rearrange things imho.

I would never have askied for special consideration.

MagicMarker

I think it takes some neck to ask a teacher to cancel an entire lecture for your own personal benefit.

I'd deny the request simply because it sets a dangerous precedent. Say yes to this student then you'll have to say yes to the next.

VictorRomeo

Eid Ul Fitr(the one following directly after Ramadan) would closer in terms of process and celebration of the day to Christmas Day in Christian life, rather than Ash Wednesday etc. Most Muslims will take the day off and visit family and friends, go to the gravesides of deceased loved ones then feast and so on. I've a couple of Muslim chaps working for me and they always take the few days out and celebrate with their family. it's a big thing for them - especially if they're devout.

Turtwig

Take everything on a case by case basis. If you can do it and would be happy to do it for non religious reasons, and your students are satisfied then I don't see any reason why you should refuse this request.

In the interest of balance you could always have an exam at the end of that week.:D

sephir0th

Find out what the policy is for the institution and abide by that - they should have their set holidays posted. If I requested this to attend a wedding or a funeral would you cancel the lecture?

Sulla Felix

At what point does principle outweigh the normal tendency to be reasonable and accomodating towards another person's request?

This is the key point. Would you move around a lecture to suit a single student for any other reason than this or another religious reason?

Nodin

equivariant wrote: »

I give lectures as part of the day job and I have been confronted with the following dilemma.

One of the students in my class is Muslin and has requested that I cancel the lecture on Tuesday 15, since that is Eid (end of Ramadan apparently) which is a day of celebration for Muslims. This is a very small class and it would be possible for me to go along with this request and rearrange the class for another day without too much bother - also I am fairly sure that the non Muslim students in the class would not object to a rearrangement. On the other hand, the tone of the request is quite strident and part of me wants to say "why should I make special arrangements which are not part of the regular timetable?" And if I accede to this request, where would I draw the line (suppose there was 1 Muslim in a class of 2 or 5, or 10, or 100)

I am not sure which way I will go on this one and I would like to have a better reason than 'I don't like religion' to refuse this request. At what point does principle outweigh the normal tendency to be reasonable and accomodating towards another person's request?

Thoughts?

...can't postpone for one dude, whatever the reason.

Mr. CooL ICE

Pretty cheeky thing to ask, IMO. Student should at least attempt to arrange for notes to be copied on his behalf.

magicbastarder wrote: »

my first reaction would be to punt it up the chain in whatever institution you lecture in, at least to find out their policy.

Good idea. Best to cover your ass, just in case. If the chain of command just shrugs their shoulders, then a firm "no" should do.

PhoenixParker

equivariant wrote: »

I give lectures as part of the day job and I have been confronted with the following dilemma.

One of the students in my class is Muslin and has requested that I cancel the lecture on Tuesday 15, since that is Eid (end of Ramadan apparently) which is a day of celebration for Muslims. This is a very small class and it would be possible for me to go along with this request and rearrange the class for another day without too much bother - also I am fairly sure that the non Muslim students in the class would not object to a rearrangement. On the other hand, the tone of the request is quite strident and part of me wants to say "why should I make special arrangements which are not part of the regular timetable?" And if I accede to this request, where would I draw the line (suppose there was 1 Muslim in a class of 2 or 5, or 10, or 100)

I am not sure which way I will go on this one and I would like to have a better reason than 'I don't like religion' to refuse this request. At what point does principle outweigh the normal tendency to be reasonable and accomodating towards another person's request?

Thoughts?

It's not the end of Ramadan, that was weeks ago, it's the other Eid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha

No, I wouldn't inconvenience an entire class for one person.
I might make a special accommodation if there was a class test that day or something, but beyond that, no.

shruikan2553

I would say no. If its anything like my college you will be trying to find a time that suits everyone and then have to contact some office to find out where they can set you up if the usual room is taken. It seems like a lot of effort for everyone not taking a day off vs the 1 student getting the notes from someone else.

Geomy

Give him an inch and he'll take mile,I'd say no....

robindch

equivariant wrote: »

At what point does principle outweigh the normal tendency to be reasonable and accomodating towards another person's request?

The koran's shurah 8:61 is clear on the topic of reciprocity:

Koran 8:61 wrote:

But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it [...]

Summary: if the person makes some peremptory demand about some item, then I'd make some equivalent demand in return. If they were decent about it though, then I'd be happy to be as flexible as they wanted me to be.

Your call all the same, though I'd bear in mind that one reciprocity-free arrangement may well lead to a demand for another one.

Paramite Pie

Are students marked on attendance?

If this holy day is similar to Christmas Day for a Muslim it'd be a bit harsh to loose marks for non-attendance. But I don't think rearranging lectures is the way to go. He'll just have to get the notes....

Heck even for a funeral I never asked to rearrange a lecture, just got the notes later.

I wonder if he's asked other professors? It'd be chaos is several lecturers try to rearrange...

Stheno

I think a lot of the responses here are a little harsh tbh.

I worked in a rotating shift environment years ago and one of my team was Muslim, who ended up on a dayshift (rare, only 1/15 shifts we did were daytime) during Ramadan, and we (i.e. my work) tried to accomodate him.

Similiarly there were no facilities in the organisation for him to pray, so a room was set aside.

I suspect there's a culture gap in terms of the request, the OP doesn't understand how significant Eid is, the student didn't explain, so there was no basis for discussing it.

Eid is a significant holiday (like Xmas as others have said) in the Muslim calendar, and as the OP has said that there is no significant impact, and that they believe the other students will accomodate the request, I'd be inclined to facilitate it tbh.

It's a fairly unique situation, in that it can be accomodated, I've friends whose work rota has been changed without regards due to Christians demanding that they not work on Sundays (in a retail environment) on the basis of religious obligation.

hfallada

3rd Level institutions are supposed to be secular in Ireland. Looking at tcd, DIT and ucd religion plays zero role in the running of the colleges. Although they break from Christmas, its about half though the college term and I imagine without Christianity there would be a break at Christmas anyway.

I would say no to the student. Just explain he doesn't have to come to the lecture if he wants and he can get notes off someone else. If you tried to work your lectures around different religious festivals, it would be a mess. Religion is a lifestyle choice for that individual. Why should you have to make arranges for his/her choice?

Bannasidhe

As a lecturer myself I would be a firm No as I think it sets a dangerous precedent.

The student would be aware of the time table/ academic year before enrollment and agreed to this by enrolling.

Is your's the only lecture this student has that day? What about next year?


Will students of other faiths be able to request that lectures which conflict with the observation of their religious festivals be rearranged with the expectation that as a precedent has occurred their request will be granted despite possible inconvenience to other students?

Should all lectures which fall on religiously significant days be rearranged?

I, personally, would firmly but politely decline to rearrange.

Yes, currently in the Western academic model Christian 'holy' days fall during semester breaks (as does harvesting..!) but this is for historical reasons as when the academic year was laid out the Church had a great deal of input and this format has never been changed - but the agricultural calender also played a significant role and students would be 'released' for planting and harvesting.

magicbastarder

again, even just to cover your own ass; you don't make policy (i assume) in whatever institution you teach. follow the institution's policy, or seek the feedback of those in charge there.

Animord

It doesn't seem to be that big a deal on the surface of it, but I would certainly not make any decision based on how easy it would be for your students to change the date. The problem is that you would be setting a precedent not only for your classes but for the whole institution. I would definitely refer it to the powers that be and let them make the decision. Who knows how diverse your students are going to be in five years from now and having set the precedent you could find yourselves in all sorts of bother accommodating everyone.

Beruthiel

I think this is very simple.
School, college, etc.. is no place for religion and if you follow one then that's your problem and not that of your place of education.
Imagine if everyone in the class requested special treatment for their religions special day.
You'd get nothing done.
It should be a solid NO on that basis alone.
It's your religion, make your own arrangements.

seamus

Stheno wrote: »

I think a lot of the responses here are a little harsh tbh.

I worked in a rotating shift environment years ago and one of my team was Muslim, who ended up on a dayshift (rare, only 1/15 shifts we did were daytime) during Ramadan, and we (i.e. my work) tried to accomodate him.

Similiarly there were no facilities in the organisation for him to pray, so a room was set aside.

Not really the same thing though is it? This is more like asking that the entire shift shut down to accommodate this one person's beliefs.

A more reasonable accession to this student's request would be to allow him access to the lecture notes afterwards, or give allowance for someone to set up a video camera to record the lecture.

Penn

seamus wrote: »

Not really the same thing though is it? This is more like asking that the entire shift shut down to accommodate this one person's beliefs.

A more reasonable accession to this student's request would be to allow him access to the lecture notes afterwards, or give allowance for someone to set up a video camera to record the lecture.

Exactly. Regardless of whether it's 5 students or 50 students in the class, it's unfair to the others to change their schedules to suit one student. You say they probably wouldn't mind, but you can't know that. If they normally have nothing scheduled at the time you'd want to move it to, they might have something else planned.

If it was a class of ten students for example, one student wanted the time changed because of EID and eight of the other students said that's fine, it's then unfair to the one student who doesn't want the time changed. They either have to go along with it and change their own plans, or say no and be made to look like the bad guy.

Changing the time/date of a class for religion reasons is bringing religion into the equation. I'd say it's best to leave well alone. As seamus said, try to offer a solution if you can to help the student out (ask the other students if maybe someone could give a copy of the notes, or set up a dictaphone, or email him the main points of the lecture or something. But swapping the time and date of a class to suit one student could cause problems for the other students, and it's unfair on them to have their schedule changed as a result of the religious beliefs of one student.

tfitzgerald

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Actually, just read the OP again, if he was strident, demanding and expectant in his request I would give him Lynskis answer. If he had approached it in a humble fashion I would maybe put it to the other students.

I agree. With this post when I read the op. I was all for changing the day but the further down I read I changed my mind if he wants to celebrate Eid let him take a day off and maybe explain to him that he will get a lot further in the world by being nice and polite

Cabaal

Its sets a very dangerous precedent,

Whats next? A student can demand that no lectures take place on May the 4th for religious reasons? Hey! Thats a good test case.

I would say no, but perhaps allow access to notes etc. If you say yes to this day then by right you have to say yes to every religious day for every faith otherwise you are favoring a certain faith.

Carlos Orange

Stheno wrote: »

I think a lot of the responses here are a little harsh tbh.

I suspect there's a culture gap in terms of the request, the OP doesn't understand how significant Eid is, the student didn't explain, so there was no basis for discussing it.

If there is some harm beyond missing the lecture (like a class exam) that should be mitigated since there is a legitimate reason but that doesn't mean everyone should be scheduling their life around one persons religious festivals.

sbsquarepants

I personally wouldn't change it. As has been said it's a secular institution (nominally it is any way - i'm sure you have Christmas and easter holidays!). Your students religion is his own concern, he has to fit it in around the world he inhabits, the world doesn't have to fit around his religion.

Akrasia

The Chinese community don't get a day off to ring in their new year
Celtic supporters don't get a day off to celebrate their annual winning of the SPL
Clare schoolkids don't get the day off to celebrate the all ireland... oh wait, never mind..

It's complex. If we are to live in an open and inter-cultural society than we should probably consider changing our public holidays to accommodate other cultures.

I would prefer to have muslim people welcomed into Ireland and to allow an exchange of cultures rather than a multi-cultural society where we tolerate each other but rarely mix socially.

Ireland has fewer public holidays than other countries in Europe. I would support a new public holiday to mark EID for the muslim community as a cultural event that anyone can participate in.

Non christians can enjoy christmas, non Muslims might like the chance to experience a festival that celebrates the muslim cultural heritage (the good parts)

But in terms of the OP, I wouldn't go setting up a precedent without at the very least discussing this with the institution to see what their official policy is