man caught with 24 deer in a van

welsummer

I was told today that the Wicklow people has an article on the front cover of someone that was caught in Wicklow with 24 deer in the back of their van. I wasn't able to read it on line, but I found the front cover.
http://wicklowpeople.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

Kells1

Hopefully these guys will get their just medicine

16 bore

I hope they feel the full weight of the law.

Maudi

Irelands very own "bush meat "trade....what sentence will they get?what sentence did that guy from cork who admitted hunting a protected stag get?

The Aussie

Well he is either (a) the worlds best Deer Stalker or (b) a greedy simpleton...

tomcat220t

Here the real question ... what game dealer was involved in such a racket ?
Regards,Tomcat .

Lotharmike

tomcat220t wrote: »

Here the real question ... what game dealer was involved in such a racket ?
Regards,Tomcat .

Thats the real question right there,without a commercial entity to handle that quantity there would be no trade in illegal shooting of protected species.I personally believe all tools used for that illegal activity should be forfeit on detection ie guns ,transport,& any equipment for the purpose of poaching then the courts should kick in along with revenue/ gov dept concerned.

rowa

If this has reached epidemic proportions, and it certainly looks that way, its about time a judge made an example of one of these idiots. They are quick enough to send people to jail for petty crap like not having a television licence.

Cass

Before this runs into another 10 page rant (which it duly deserves) is this recent?

There is a propensity for papers to run old stories when a newer one comes to light or if they decide to so an article on a topic they can use older stories that have log since been forgotten to highlight their story.

Over the last two years i have heard of three separate incidents of trailer loads, and van loads of deer being seized. The most recent was not too far from me, and fair play to the rangers & Gardaí involved, but i have heard this event being recited to me recently as though it only happened.

rowa

Cass wrote: »

Before this runs into another 10 page rant (which it duly deserves) is this recent?

There is a propensity for papers to run old stories when a newer one comes to light or if they decide to so an article on a topic they can use older stories that have log since been forgotten to highlight their story.

Over the last two years i have heard of three separate incidents of trailer loads, and van loads of deer being seized. The most recent was not too far from me, and fair play to the rangers & Gardaí involved, but i have heard this event being recited to me recently as though it only happened.

It says this in the article cass.

"GARDAI HAVE launched a multi faceted crackdown on illegal deer poaching targeting four specific poachers as poaching reaches ‘epidemic proportions’".

So its more about what the gardai are going to do this season. why do these four poachers have rifles ?

Cass

rowa wrote: »

It says this in the article cass

I cannot find the article and the link only shows the opening page. Not too interested in registering to see what one article says.

........... its about time a judge made an example of one of these idiots

why do these four poachers have rifles ?

I agree, but as i've said in other threads it's what they can legally impose. (Bearing in mind i still have no read the article so am not sure on all the specifics such as first offence, etc.)

The fines, and sentences for poaching are pitiful. First offence is between €500 - €1000 and no guarantee of loss of guns, possessions involved. Second offence carries a higher fine, but comes with the same "no guarantee" of loss of possessions.

The only other option left open to judges would be the poor box as a means of imposing a higher than stated fine, but none of the money goes back into the NPWS. If the fines imposed, all of them, were directed back into these groups perhaps it would help finance further patrols. Just spit balling so not sure how possible some ideas would be.

meathstevie

And by next week some other ropey caracter is supplying the same ropey gamedealer whoever he/she is.

16 bore

I was speaking with garda from the south tipp area last week who had already prosecuted two successfully and has two more pending.
The first two had to pay heavy fines and then had there game licences and guns revoked by the fish and wildlife service for the crime of poaching, i believe this happened over two different cases in courtS. He is hoping the next two will face the same.

Cass

16 bore wrote: »

The first two had to pay heavy fines and then had there game licences and guns revoked by the fish and wildlife service for the crime of poaching,.

The NPWS has no authority to revoke a firearms license. As they issue the deer license they can revoke that, but not firearms. They can request/demand it, and the Gardaí can do this this on their behalf however it is not as commonly done as it probably should be.

They do have the authority to seize firearms, but they must be handed in to the nearest/local Garda station within 24 hours of being seized. Failing that they can demand the person follow them to a Garda station to surrender it themselves.

PL05

As i said before they should seize everything that has been used to poach an animal including car/van. Take away the means and theres no access to carry out the crime.

Cass

The NPWS have the authority to do so, but it is not their decision whether it stays gone or not. That is up to the courts.

16 bore

Cass wrote: »

The NPWS has no authority to revoke a firearms license. As they issue the deer license they can revoke that, but not firearms. They can request/demand it, and the Gardaí can do this this on their behalf however it is not as commonly done as it probably should be.

They do have the authority to seize firearms, but they must be handed in to the nearest/local Garda station within 24 hours of being seized. Failing that they can demand the person follow them to a Garda station to surrender it themselves.

Not sure of the details how it all happened but having heard it from the garda involved i would be inclined to believe him.
He also has avid interest in our sport.

Cass

16 bore wrote: »

............ having heard it from the garda involved i would be inclined to believe him.

I don't doubt for a moment that it happened, just not by the NPWS. The guns being revoked that is. They do not have the legal authority to do so.

rowa

If the npws immediately revoke the poachers hunting licence when he is found guilty, then he has no lawful reason to own the rifle and the firearms licence has to be revoked too doesn't it ?

meathstevie

Who exactly seized what isn't important, getting these characters weeded out is what matters.

Means Of Escape

PL05 wrote: »

As i said before they should seize everything that has been used to poach an animal including car/van. Take away the means and theres no access to carry out the crime.

Akin to illegal fishing . Pots nets and impound the boat and jammed with a hefty fine.
Only way and a real cough softener .

Cass

Unless he is a member of a range then he has no "good reason" as opposed to lawful reason.

Either way it is still up to the Gardaí to follow up and revoke the license. The thing is this is usually reserved for repeat offenders. Most do not have their guns revoked or removed and i know of two instances where the guns were given back to them shortly after.

The other aspect of this is what happens the guns. When the license is revoked then they can no longer be in possession of the gun. So they have to surrender them and sell them. This is assuming the guns were not seized in the first place, but have had the license revoked.

The other side is when the guns are seized and then the license is revoked. The gun can be sold by the courts/Gardaí with the monies going to the revenue.

meathstevie wrote: »

Who exactly seized what isn't important, getting these characters weeded out is what matters.

And what happens after they are "weeded out". That not important too?

1shot16

Thats only the lads that are caught could of been vans more full of deer.

And people like this get licences :rolleyes:

Lastin

When there is a market for deer, there will be poachers. If the sale of deer is outlawed the poaching will reduce.

PL05

I would,nt say these sh*theads operate within the season either, probably doing it all year round, f**k me there,ll be no deer left before long.

Cass

Lads,

I've had to remove some copy and pastes of the article from the paper. Minister Sherlock, in his wisdom, declared direct copy and pasting from other sites or forms of media without written permission as a copyright infringement.

This means you need permission from the paper to copy it onto Boards or any other website. If someone wants to e-mail them and get permission then i'll happily put it back up.


Cass.

Grizzly 45

Or simply join The Wicklow People newspaper for a 30 day FREE trial and read the article:)

Grizzly 45

PL05 wrote: »

As i said before they should seize everything that has been used to poach an animal including car/van. Take away the means and theres no access to carry out the crime.

Whilst it sounds good and would satisfy the "vengence gene" in us.It cant be done as
1] It would leave the State open to a possible massive constitutional challange of being deprived of ones property not in accordance with the law as laid out in the Constitution. IOW the law on poaching would have to be changed to include forfiture and seizure of goods as part of the penalties.


2]Laws of forfiture and seizure are NOT a good thing to demand off anyone in power..As our Irish history might have taught us.:eek:

Also is there a definition of "poaching" under Irish law??..As wild game is owner less here[apart from raised game or enclosed game] And poaching is theft of game from someones ownership... How do you lay claim to ownership of the owner less???Just because its on your land isnt proof of ownership ASFIK.

Grizzly 45

The other aspect of this is what happens the guns. When the license is revoked then they can no longer be in possession of the gun. So they have to surrender them and sell them. This is assuming the guns were not seized in the first place, but have had the license revoked.

The other side is when the guns are seized and then the license is revoked. The gun can be sold by the courts/Gardaí with the monies going to the revenue.

Uhmm..Not quite,there is no requirement to sell the guns,they can be put in storage by the hopefully EX poachers until the term of the revocation is over and they can reapply.
Seizure,the better option would be for the Judge to order their destruction which he can do as well.Sends a better message.:)

Selling it isnt a very platable option in most Irish courts as it still has historical overtones and we have still an inbuilt reluctance to purchase seized goods here.Not to mind it is a firearm,and for the amount raised in selling such Vs the expenses of storing ,paperwork etc would the revenue benefit at all??

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Also is there a definition of "poaching" under Irish law?

I don't know but there wouldn't need to be one, practically speaking -- if you're poaching you're breaking a host of other laws which have hefty penalties. Trespass, breaking the conditions of your firearms licence, shooting without a deer licence if it's deer, and so on. Enforce the existing laws before writing new ones and all that

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Or simply join The Wicklow People newspaper for a 30 day FREE trial and read the article:)

We can bill them for the extra members.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Uhmm..Not quite,there is no requirement to sell the guns,they can be put in storage by the hopefully EX poachers until the term of the revocation is over and they can reapply.

That is very true, but consider this. The next time you re-apply you must declare you had a firearm license revoked. Revocation has no set period of time. It is at the Super's discretion. So how long do you think people would be willing to store a gun especially considering that most dealers are now charging for this? The handgun issue has been going on for nearly 5 years and in that time the majority have sold on their gun even those that were not refused as they cannot be arsed. So if a person has a rifle and kit worth €1,000, €2,000, etc would they think "Better store that" or would they think "sell it, and buy again down the road"?

Playing devil's advocate here.

Seizure,the better option would be for the Judge to order their destruction which he can do as well.Sends a better message.:)

That is already a power at their disposal. Not to sell the seized gun, but for it to bee destroyed.

Selling it isnt a very platable option in most Irish courts as it still has historical overtones and we have still an inbuilt reluctance to purchase seized goods here.Not to mind it is a firearm,and for the amount raised in selling such Vs the expenses of storing ,paperwork etc would the revenue benefit at all??

You would possibly never know it was a seized firearm. As for storage there are thousands of guns stored in barracks, and stations for the last 40+ years so adding the few extra that would come from such cases would not be an issue.