The Fianna Fáil voter

ThePieintheSky

Speaking as one of the exiled I was shocked at the victory handed to the Fianna Fáil party at the weekend.

They must have big latent support out there, especially in sophisticated areas (but even in Dublin people supported Fianna Fáil by proxy!), despite destroying the country.

What is wrong with these people? What does Fianna Fáil have to do so they will reconsider giving them support?

And apparently the polling companies are saying some of these supporters lie about supporting Fianna Fáil and then vote for them


It's like a cult. A scary cult. Is Micheál Martin the leader of a cult?

Lone Stone

A no vote is not a vote for FF :rolleyes:

My name is URL

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

Speaking as one of the exiled I was shocked at the victory handed to the Fianna Fáil party at the weekend.

You're in the UAE right now? Thank Allah for small miracles

Muise...

UAE. UAfcukingE.

and you think Irish politics are a bit of a mess?

Sh1tbag OToole

I reckon if FF were backing the abolition of the seaned the amendment would have been defeated by an even bigger margin

The people havnt forgotten what that shower have done..

Skid X

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

Speaking as one of the exiled I was shocked at the victory handed to the Fianna Fáil party at the weekend.

That post is exactly why we should be very slow to extend voting rights to emigrants.

dark crystal

OP, if I were you, I'd delete your location from your profile - every thread you start, someone ends up bringing up the fact you live there!

Wompa1

Muise... wrote: »

UAE. UAfcukingE.

and you think Irish politics are a bit of a mess?

Masterfully deflected. You're in Australia Canada America New Zealand UAE and you think Ireland blah blah blah

dobman88

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

Speaking as one of the exiled I was shocked at the victory handed to the Fianna Fáil party at the weekend.

They must have big latent support out there, especially in boggier areas (but even in Dublin people supported Fianna Fáil by proxy!), despite destroying the country.

What is wrong with these people? What does Fianna Fáil have to do so they will reconsider giving them support?

And apparently the polling companies are saying some of these supporters lie about supporting Fianna Fáil and then vote for them


It's like a cult. A scary cult. Is Micheál Martin the leader of a cult?

Please elaborate on boggier areas, bit of a generalisation don't ya think

ThePieintheSky

Muise... wrote: »

UAE. UAfcukingE.

and you think Irish politics are a bit of a mess?

Yes. Fianna Fáil?

I came here for cleaner politics.

Muise...

Wompa1 wrote: »

Masterfully deflected. You're in Australia Canada America New Zealand UAE and you think Ireland blah blah blah

nah, OP lives in a slave-built lalaland and has a funny theory about a recent democratic result here blah blah blah.

ThePieintheSky

dark crystal wrote: »

OP, if I were you, I'd delete your location from your profile - every thread you start, someone ends up bringing up the fact you live there!

Good idea. Only found out I could do that! Thank you.

ThePieintheSky

Lone Stone wrote: »

A no vote is not a vote for FF :rolleyes:

There was a picture on a local news website of a positively beaming Micheál Martin. My jaw nearly hit the floor. I thought something terrible had happened:eek: Like they got back in or something.

kneemos

I don't think you're giving FG enough credit.They're equally capable of funking things up.

cletus van damme

It was a political victory for Martin over Kenny but that doesn't mean the No voters did so to support Martin , or have anything to do with him.
Cos they didn't.

But he won in his battle to show up Enda - that's politics to snatch at any victory.

And he beat Enda good too

Wompa1

Muise... wrote: »

nah, OP lives in a slave-built lalaland and has a funny theory about a recent democratic result here blah blah blah.

OP may be Irish, may have moved to the United Arab Emirates a few months ago....

forgotten password

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I reckon if FF were backing the abolition of the seaned the amendment would have been defeated by an even bigger margin

The people havnt forgotten what that shower have done..

forgiven, not forgotten

My name is URL

cletus van damme wrote: »

But he won in his battle to show up Enda - that's politics to snatch at any victory.

And he beat Enda good too

I think Enda won that particular battle himself!

ThePieintheSky

Wompa1 wrote: »

OP may be Irish, may have moved to the United Arab Emirates a few months ago....

Why would people think i'm not Irish.

Or do random foreigners frequently check in on the minutia of Irish politics? Thing is, and I hope others don't have to move, but when you are away the anger is a little more palpable when you see certain things at home. I have been away for 2 years and have followed everything from home very closely.

To be fair, although i'm not there, I get the impression the current crowd have not done too badly considering the state of the place left to them. I'm sure someone will jump down my throat for saying that though.

Nodin

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

It's like a cult. A scary cult. Is Micheál Martin the leader of a cult?

...that would require leadership qualities that micheal lacks...

cletus van damme

Nodin wrote: »

...that would require leadership qualities that micheal lacks...

maybe a leadership like....say gerry adams?

hatrickpatrick

God dammit.
Guilt by association with regard to referenda is an absolute plague on Irish democracy. We had the exact same sh!te with Lisbon (vote no and you're a Shinner) and as far as I can remember, with almost every single referendum I've lived through.

No, a choice in a referendum does not indicate anything other than a rejection or acceptance of what is asked on the ballot paper. To suggest otherwise is condescending, belittling and downright insulting to the Irish population.

Nodin

cletus van damme wrote: »

maybe a leadership like....say gerry adams?

Do please elucidate your doubtless profound point.

mb1725

No mention of the 'F words' on my ballot paper.

amazedanddazed

Skid X wrote: »

That post is exactly why we should be very slow to extend voting rights to emigrants.

Given that 51% of the Irish electorate voted to keep the Seanad despite its incredibly anti-democratic nature and "jobs for the boys" culture, the problem of incredibly ignorant, idiotic voters damaging our society is clearly a lot closer to home. Nice scapegoating, though.

galwayrush

I blame inbreeding.

cletus van damme

Nodin wrote: »

Do please elucidate your doubtless profound point.

no. I won't because my point would be lacking something unless you pronounce that Gerry has those leadership qualities that Martin lacks.

You were kinda vague on what they were but I was hoping you'd go down a certain route on leadership qualities and maybe throw in a point on virtue, truth, honesty and defender of the oppressed or something laudable (i'm sure you get the picture)

I was trying to draw you in here. and then retort with accusations that Gerry Adams is not a great leader or throw some dig at him and inadvertently your support of him too but more him than you.

It could have been profound or not - really depended on your reply.
But it probably won't happen now and I'll have to kill the remaining hour till love/hate another way.

another time, perhaps?

Red Pepper

Lone Stone wrote: »

A no vote is not a vote for FF :rolleyes:

Whether you like it or not, it gives them legitimacy again. It also gives them confidence. Unfortunately they will be a force at the next election especially if Enda is still leader.

michael999999

Red Pepper wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, it gives them legitimacy again. It also gives them confidence. Unfortunately they will be a force at the next election especially if Enda is still leader.

**** em!

A party of crooks liars and thieves!!

Red Pepper

Nodin wrote: »

...that would require leadership qualities that micheal lacks...

Enda said he would not debate with Martin on RTE because he would only "embarrass" him. It was a joke of sorts but in my mind it made Enda look very very weak and made Martin look a credible opposition leader (with only 20 seats!). The whole thing is a disaster for FG.

Bertser

A no vote wasn't a vote for FF, but it worries me how good they're doing in the polls.

Nodin

cletus van damme wrote: »

no. I won't because my point would be lacking something unless you pronounce that Gerry (........)perhaps?

Dear me......

Let's try to clarify something. Let's say - for the sake of argument - Gerry was the worst leader in the world, verified by the "World's Worst Leaders" testing team. That in no way, shape or form improves, disimproves or otherwise affects the qualities (or lack thereof) of Michael Martin.

...unless of course you have discovered some quantum relationship between the two? The particles of Gerry acting on the particles of Michael?

Nodin

Red Pepper wrote: »

Enda said he would not debate with Martin on RTE because he would only "embarrass" him. It was a joke of sorts but in my mind it made Enda look very very weak and made Martin look a credible opposition leader (with only 20 seats!). The whole thing is a disaster for FG.

....true. You can't win a race if you don't turn up. And you get a "winner" by default.

jjbrien

amazedanddazed wrote: »

Given that 51% of the Irish electorate voted to keep the Seanad despite its incredibly anti-democratic nature and "jobs for the boys" culture, the problem of incredibly ignorant, idiotic voters damaging our society is clearly a lot closer to home. Nice scapegoating, though.

I for one voted no and the reason I did is if we got rif of the Seanad we would never get an upper house again. I dont like the idea of FG or FF being able to do what they want without someone checking what they are doing. There are some very good people in the Seanad like David Norris, Feargal Quinn to name 2.

I for one would love to see it reformed so that we all could have a vote in it. I think the system of having Enda Kenny putting people who he likes in there is wrong. There should be panels that the people can vote for and a profile of each person running saying what their expertise is and how they plan to make a diffrence on a national level. I know it would be a very long voting paper.

I dont think power should be centered in the Dail alone.

Miss Lockhart

I would question the intelligence of anyone who would vote purely along party lines in a referendum. And I would question the motives of anyone belittling opposing voters by accusing them of such, unless they're admitting they themselves engaged in such a foolish endeavour, then I refer again to my first point.

I have never voted for FF and I can't see myself doing so in the future. I sure as hell voted NO to this shoddy proposal though.

17larsson

I didn't even know which parties were in favour of what. It was a referendum not an election

Morph the Cat

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

The people havnt forgotten what that shower have done..

They have - people are stupid. They will vote for FF no matter what.

We live in a world where stupid people are the vast vast majority. You only need to look at viewership for X-factor, long queues in McDonalds, losers queuing for GTAV or iPhones or 1Direction tickets, tabloid readers, people liking and sharing obviously fake competitions on facebook, people who vehemently boo the English soccer team yet support one of the English club teams with a passion, etc; all random examples, but just proof that they're everywhere in all walks of life. Different levels of stupidity, but stupid none the less.

Point being; people still voting for FF doesn't surprise me at all.

Peregrine

Why can't we have a referendum where parties don't advocate for one side or the other?

Keep their opinions to themselves, let the people debate it and everyone can voice their opinion by voting. It's better than this crap..

ted1

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

Why would people think i'm not Irish.

Or do random foreigners frequently check in on the minutia of Irish politics?

Well in fairness if they did they might understand it better than you.
This was in no way anything to do with FF.

The people wanted reform but were only given the option of abolition or leave as is.

People want a democratically elected 2nd house. This was not an option.

ThePieintheSky

ted1 wrote: »

This was in way anything to do with FF.

That is so naive. Fianna Fáil have gained credibility as the ONLY main party calling for it to be retained in the referendum. Politics is politics and like it or not Fianna Fáil is part of the package the people voted for by association.

People need to wise up to politics. It's not as straight forward as "this was not a vote on Fianna Fáil". It does not work like that.

Get Real

I guess around the time of the election in 2011, the media, and people were saying "FF, never again, they won't be in government for a generation"

But we knew this was BS right? A week is a long time in politics as they say, never mind 3,4 or 5 years.

I didn't vote for FF in the last election. I've never voted for them, but I'm 22 so it's not as if I've been attached to any party. I don't believe in party politics, I don't believe in people voting for FF because their father voted for FF and so on.

However, surely it makes sense that its entirely possible FF will be in government in the next election? I don't know what the surprise is about. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with FF being in the next govt. That's a separate point.

What I am saying is that its no shock if they will be. FF as a party were in the government that brought about economic collapse. But we're so quick to brush everyone as one. Individual humans were involved in the decisions made. Not FF. Bertie, Cowen were human. Would politicians in FG/Labour/SF as humans have done any different?

"Growth is great, I want to be popular, look at our country steaming ahead, we're high in the polls, dinners, match days, shaking hands and a few pints" are we saying other parties wouldn't have had the same attitude?

And not even regarding the FF politicians, consider the power unelected people had. Banks seeking profits, developers, estate agents, lobby groups. Joe in construction having pints with John from the bank, or Jim in the newspapers. And as human beings, the time was good, sure why wouldn't ya? In hindsight its terrible now, and people are more aware now. But, being completely honest, earning 200,000 a year, travelling around, holidays, meeting lobbyists who want their back scratched, nice standard of living, (of course there were bads sides too) but I can understand.

And the question shouldn't be how do FF have so much support, it should be, would any other party have done any different at the time?

ted1

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

That is so naive. Fianna Fáil have gained credibility as the ONLY main party calling for it to be retained in the referendum. Politics is politics and like it or not Fianna Fáil is part of the package the people voted for by association.

People need to wise up to politics. It's not as straight forward as "this was not a vote on Fianna Fáil". It does not work like that.

I'm calling bollox to that theory,.

losthorizon

FF always come back. Maybe not next election but the election after that. That would make it ten years say since they were last in power many young voters would not remember them in government and some others would like to give them a second third chance.

Doc Ruby

I'm guessing FF will get into power in the next election. Inda's just not popular. And to be honest I think the Shinners will get in as well.

amazedanddazed

jjbrien wrote: »

I for one voted no and the reason I did is if we got rif of the Seanad we would never get an upper house again. I dont like the idea of FG or FF being able to do what they want without someone checking what they are doing. There are some very good people in the Seanad like David Norris

... I dont think power should be centered in the Dail alone.

The Seanad is controlled by the Dáil, specifically by the most powerful political party at local and national elections, just as it always has been. Power is, in reality, centred in the Dáil. The Seanad is a "boys' club", where rejected politicians from the real powerbase, Dáil Éireann, are well-rewarded until they can get re-elected by the people at the next election. Nobody disputes this. Talk of "reform" is pie-in-the-sky.

Norris, for instance, has not worked in the generally understood meaning of that particular word in many decades. He is living a life of privilege - being paid c. €100,000 per year including expenses - based upon his links with Trinity College Dublin. A graduate of, say, Sligo IT, could never aspire to such a leisurely life never mind be able to vote in an election to Seanad Éireann - but they will be forced by this state to pay taxes to finance Norris and the rest of these anti-democratic parasites in their lives of comparative luxury. At least with the Dáil, all Irish citizens have a right to vote for its members.

jjbrien

amazedanddazed wrote: »

The Seanad is controlled by the Dáil, specifically by the most powerful political party at local and national elections, just as it always has been. Power is, in reality, centred in the Dáil. The Seanad is a "boys' club", where rejected politicians from the real powerbase, Dáil Éireann, are well-rewarded until they can get re-elected by the people at the next election. Nobody disputes this. Talk of "reform" is pie-in-the-sky.

Norris, for instance, has not worked in the generally understood meaning of that particular word in many decades. He is living a life of privilege - being paid c. €100,000 per year including expenses - based upon his links with Trinity College Dublin. A graduate of, say, Sligo IT, could never aspire to such a leisurely life never mind be able to vote in an election to Seanad Éireann - but they will be forced by this state to pay taxes to finance Norris and the rest of these anti-democratic parasites in their lives of comparative luxury. At least with the Dáil, all Irish citizens have a right to vote for its members.

And why shouldn't we allow normal people vote for them too or at least graduates of all the third level colleges in Ireland. I went to Blanch IT myself so I cant vote in it either unless i go do a masters at NUI or Trinity.

Id like to see the Seanad (social welfare for failed politicians ended) and put people who can really make a diffrence to our country. Maybe people who could stop something like the bank guarantee happening again.

Seaneh

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

Yes. Fianna Fáil?

I came here for cleaner politics.

And blatant racism, religious extremism and state tolerated involuntary servitude too, I guess?

allthedoyles

Funny thing about last Friday is that 20% voted yes - 20% voted no - and 60% stayed at home.

oppenheimer1

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

Speaking as one of the exiled I was shocked at the victory handed to the Fianna Fáil party at the weekend.

They must have big latent support out there, especially in boggier areas (but even in Dublin people supported Fianna Fáil by proxy!), despite destroying the country.

What is wrong with these people? What does Fianna Fáil have to do so they will reconsider giving them support?

And apparently the polling companies are saying some of these supporters lie about supporting Fianna Fáil and then vote for them


It's like a cult. A scary cult. Is Micheál Martin the leader of a cult?

I've heard them say that Ireland is experiencing a brain drain. As you have helpfully shown us, its not all the best and brightest that have left.

oppenheimer1

jjbrien wrote: »

And why shouldn't we allow normal people vote for them too or at least graduates of all the third level colleges in Ireland. I went to Blanch IT myself so I cant vote in it either unless i go do a masters at NUI or Trinity.

Id like to see the Seanad (social welfare for failed politicians ended) and put people who can really make a diffrence to our country. Maybe people who could stop something like the bank guarantee happening again.

For a democracy and bicameral parliament to function correctly one house should be proportional and the other not.

There is no point in replicating a second dail. The Seanad as originally designed was meant to give minorities a voice, particularly unionists who would be left out of a populist dail.

sdanseo

ThePieintheSky wrote: »

Speaking as one of the exiled I was shocked at the victory handed to the Fianna Fáil party at the weekend.

They must have big latent support out there, especially in boggier areas (but even in Dublin people supported Fianna Fáil by proxy!), despite destroying the country.

What is wrong with these people? What does Fianna Fáil have to do so they will reconsider giving them support?

And apparently the polling companies are saying some of these supporters lie about supporting Fianna Fáil and then vote for them


It's like a cult. A scary cult. Is Micheál Martin the leader of a cult?

I am genuinely worried about your ability to comprehend common sense.

You realise that Fianna Fáil can be right about a NO vote for a referendum, even if you believe they're totally unsuitable to govern, right?

allthedoyles wrote: »

Funny thing about last Friday is that 20% voted yes - 20% voted no - and 60% stayed at home.

Exactly, and I'm utterly ashamed of every last one of them. No right to complain about anything if you're not even willing to get up off your arse and have your say.