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Would the rest of the UK survive a Scottish exit?

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24

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    #32
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    ewan whose army wrote: »
    Well it would but the rest of the UK keeps on forgetting about it
    Given the event of a Scottish breakaway NI and Wales are all that's left except England itself. And neither of them are capable of being independent nations.


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    #33
    ewan whose army
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭ewan whose army


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Given the event of a Scottish breakaway NI and Wales are all that's left except England itself. And neither of them are capable of being independent nations.

    I know, well its debatable if Scotland is capable.

    NI is dependent on subsidies from Westminster to keep going. Compare London to Belfast, you can't. Well compare Dublin to Belfast and there is a huge difference, Dublin full of tech companies, Belfast errr ?

    NI can't be viable at the moment without the UK, its a fact. Alot of people in the UK don't like this and want to get rid of the North, seriously they sell passport covers without Northern Ireland on them.

    Thing is most people don't know what Northern Ireland is like, I am there fairly regularly so I know whats its like.

    The fact is England is by a huge margin the most populated part of the UK, it nearly has 9 times the population of Scotland living there!

    If you want to end the UK get the English to vote on English independence, they would happily get rid of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.


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    #34
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    ewan whose army wrote: »
    I know, well its debatable if Scotland is capable.

    NI is dependent on subsidies from Westminster to keep going. Compare London to Belfast, you can't. Well compare Dublin to Belfast and there is a huge difference, Dublin full of tech companies, Belfast errr ?

    NI can't be viable at the moment without the UK, its a fact. Alot of people in the UK don't like this and want to get rid of the North, seriously they sell passport covers without Northern Ireland on them.

    Thing is most people don't know what Northern Ireland is like, I am there fairly regularly so I know whats its like.

    The fact is England is by a huge margin the most populated part of the UK, it nearly has 9 times the population of Scotland living there!

    If you want to end the UK get the English to vote on English independence, they would happily get rid of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
    Ah it is, they have a nice little industrial base in the central belt. They have a very good third level education system over there too.

    There's no comparison between Dublin and Belfast, at least not any more.

    Where do you see the passport covers without Northern Ireland on them? Surely they're only cheap knockoffs and not official.

    What makes you think the English want to destroy the Union?


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    #35
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Ah it is, they have a nice little industrial base in the central belt. They have a very good third level education system over there too.

    There's no comparison between Dublin and Belfast, at least not any more.

    Where do you see the passport covers without Northern Ireland on them? Surely they're only cheap knockoffs and not official.

    What makes you think the English want to destroy the Union?

    There was a poll a couple of years ago asking "do you think Scotland should leave the UK?"

    In Scotland something like 41% said yes, in England it was about 48%.


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    #36
    ewan whose army
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭ewan whose army


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Ah it is, they have a nice little industrial base in the central belt. They have a very good third level education system over there too.

    There's no comparison between Dublin and Belfast, at least not any more.

    Where do you see the passport covers without Northern Ireland on them? Surely they're only cheap knockoffs and not official.

    What makes you think the English want to destroy the Union?

    Well there is no such thing as an official passport cover! They however wouldn't make them if there was no market for it.


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    #37
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Not really. The money that Scotland will get from the North Sea oil is a key cornerstone of nationalist rhetoric.
    Sure, but that's all it is - rhetoric.


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    #38
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    Supplies have been "dwindling" since they were first tapped in the 60s.
    What I mean is it's passed it's peak. About three quarters of known reserves have been recovered.
    Tabnabs wrote: »
    The very large area known as 'west of Shetland' is believed to have around 20% of the UKs oil reserves and is only now being explored.
    Only now being explored? There's been a pipeline running from developed fields in that region for years?


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    #39
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    I would presume that the impact psychologically would be profound especially if Scotland prospers or at least remains stable, suddenly there would be a real example to point to for the "peripheral areas" of the UK that leaving the English dominated UK doesn't spell doom.
    The UK isn't dominated by England. It's dominated by London.


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    #40
    ewan whose army
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭ewan whose army


    djpbarry wrote: »
    The UK isn't dominated by England. It's dominated by London.

    True :-) . Someone mentioned that the whole argument for Scottish independence apply to Northern England, with England having such a big North South divide, all the attention is on London, all the events, all the money goes there.

    We are worse off than Scotland being from the north we never got any devolution. (Although we should be given the option)


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    #41
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    djpbarry wrote: »
    The UK isn't dominated by England. It's dominated by London.
    I'd say the UK has been every bit as dominated by the Scots for a long time. Scotland has punched above its weight inside the UK for at least a century I'd say. Even today, it's a thorn in the side of the English that Scots MPs can vote on matters affecting England & Wales but not vice versa!

    The UK has had 7 Scottish born Prime Ministers.


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    #42
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    There was a poll a couple of years ago asking "do you think Scotland should leave the UK?"

    In Scotland something like 41% said yes, in England it was about 48%.
    Ah that was one poll. And those things can be skewered any way you want.
    ewan whose army wrote: »
    Well there is no such thing as an official passport cover! They however wouldn't make them if there was no market for it.
    It's just an oversight and full names of countries are unwieldy.


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    #43
    ewan whose army
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭ewan whose army


    murphaph wrote: »
    I'd say the UK has been every bit as dominated by the Scots for a long time. Scotland has punched above its weight inside the UK for at least a century I'd say. Even today, it's a thorn in the side of the English that Scots MPs can vote on matters affecting England & Wales but not vice versa!

    The UK has had 7 Scottish born Prime Ministers.

    That would explain why alot of people outside of Scotland want rid of it.

    I think no matter what happens the UK may go to a federal model with England (maybe Wales) having their own parliaments.

    But England is dominated by London and the South, the North is very left wing, historically very industrial compared to the South which is very right wing to an extent.


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    #44
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    murphaph wrote: »
    I'd say the UK has been every bit as dominated by the Scots for a long time. Scotland has punched above its weight inside the UK for at least a century I'd say. Even today, it's a thorn in the side of the English that Scots MPs can vote on matters affecting England & Wales but not vice versa!
    It doesn't matter where the MPs come from - Westminster panders to London.


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    #45
    ewan whose army
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭ewan whose army


    djpbarry wrote: »
    It doesn't matter where the MPs come from - Westminster panders to London.

    True, look at Gordon Brown, he let the city get away with anything in the early 2000s while he was Chancellor, just because London is dependent on it.


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    #46
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ewan whose army wrote: »
    True, look at Gordon Brown, he let the city get away with anything in the early 2000s while he was Chancellor, just because London is dependent on it.

    The biggest exploiters of Brown's light touch though were based in Edinburgh, growing to the largest bank in the world, swiftly followed by the UK's largest corporate loss.


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    #47
    ewan whose army
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭ewan whose army


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The biggest exploiters of Brown's light touch though were based in Edinburgh, growing to the largest bank in the world, swiftly followed by the UK's largest corporate loss.

    Well since Ulster Bank is RBS in all but name I guess it would affect alot of people over here as well. I only moved here last year so I wasn't around for the worst.

    Anyway alot of the SNPs Financial Plans were developed by Fred Goodwin !!!!


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    #48
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ewan whose army wrote: »
    Well since Ulster Bank is RBS in all but name I guess it would affect alot of people over here as well. I only moved here last year so I wasn't around for the worst.

    Anyway alot of the SNPs Financial Plans were developed by Fred Goodwin !!!!

    Ulsterbank played a significant part in that corporate loss and the losses they made in Ireland were basically underwritten by the UK taxpayer when RBS were bailed out.


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    #49
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Ah that was one poll. And those things can be skewered any way you want.


    But not when they are being carried out by the BBC in NI of course. :rolleyes:

    On the main point, the significance of the Scottish referendum is the fact that it is taking place and the discomfort it causes all British unionists. It has and will undermine the more dogmatic adherents to the notion of an unmovable Britishness. It's nothing but a transitory construct in the scheme of things.


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    #50
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's nothing but a transitory construct in the scheme of things.
    As opposed to every other country in the world?


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    #51
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    djpbarry wrote: »
    As opposed to every other country in the world?

    The Scottish Ref. serves to show the dogmatic & belligerent that 'Britishness' is just a construct and is nothing more than a transitory beneificial political alignment. There is nothing immutable about it.
    That will be a good and worthwhile excercising of certain minds imo, whatever way the referendum goes.


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    #52
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    djpbarry wrote: »
    It doesn't matter where the MPs come from - Westminster panders to London.
    No it doesn't. Westminster dissolved the Greater London Council because the Labour run GLC was getting "too big for its boots" for Maggie. (Similar happened in Dublin by the way with the break up of Dublin County Council for no good reason whatsoever).

    If Westminster pandered to London then the GLC would never have been abolished. Maybe you mean that Westminster panders to the City of London (the square mile). In that case, perhaps you have a point, but "ordinary Londoners" are not in a better position than "ordinary Mancunians" etc. London has plenty of sh!tty neighbourhoods, poverty and crime on a par with any northern city.


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    #53
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's nothing but a transitory construct in the scheme of things.
    As are all national borders....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPTFeMB8vCM


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    #54
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    murphaph wrote: »
    As are all national borders....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPTFeMB8vCM

    Correct! Hence SF's slogan, 'Tiocaigh Ár La' :D


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    #55
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    But not when they are being carried out by the BBC in NI of course. :rolleyes:

    On the main point, the significance of the Scottish referendum is the fact that it is taking place and the discomfort it causes all British unionists. It has and will undermine the more dogmatic adherents to the notion of an unmovable Britishness. It's nothing but a transitory construct in the scheme of things

    What it really demonstrates is how pissed off with Labour and the liberals a lot of Scots were at the last Scottish elections.

    The question no one seems to be asking is what a no vote will mean for the SNP if it goes that way.


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    #56
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The Scottish Ref. serves to show the dogmatic & belligerent that 'Britishness' is just a construct and is nothing more than a transitory beneificial political alignment.
    A significant number of Britons think otherwise?


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    #57
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    djpbarry wrote: »
    A significant number of Britons think otherwise?

    Which ones? South Sea Island Britons, African Britons, Irish Britons, Scottish Britons or Yorkshire Britons etc?


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    #58
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Which ones? South Sea Island Britons, African Britons, Irish Britons, Scottish Britons or Yorkshire Britons etc?

    What's a Yorkshire Briton? Wouldn't they be English Britons?


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    #59
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    djpbarry wrote: »
    A significant number of Britons think otherwise?
    Which ones? South Sea Island Britons, African Britons, Irish Britons, Scottish Britons or Yorkshire Britons etc?
    I'll take that as a 'no'.


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    #60
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    What's a Yorkshire Briton? Wouldn't they be English Britons?

    Did the War of The Roses happen yet? I'm confused. ;)


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    #61
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Did the War of The Roses happen yet? I'm confused. ;)

    To most republicans, about 200 years ago, to everyone else 500.


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