Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

VinLieger

Just looking at the one way system coming up from Dundrum village towards lower Kilmacud rd, that is going push traffic trying to access Tanney Junction and beyond from stillorgan/kilmacud direction either down towards rockfield junction or down to turn left at the goat junction and both are already pretty bad at the best of times.

Being familiar with how much traffic currently uses that road down to dundrum i would estimate regular traffic jams snaking up to the airfield entrance if not beyond.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532072#Comment_123532072

One of the main objectives of the Dundrum plans are is to give the bus service (which I will reiterate is going to double in frequency next year to a bus every 5 to 6 minutes with the A2 and A4 replacing the 14) a much clearer run from the terminus at Dundrum LUAS to Ballinteer Road. To do that is going to require compromises - people may not like it, but is it right that a bus can take 8-9 minutes at times to make the trip from the terminus to the first stop on Ballinteer Road - a trip which realistically can be done in 3 minutes at other times.

Either we are serious about improving public transport reliability or we are not - if we are then there are going to have to be hard decisions taken.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532135#Comment_123532135

All well and good for those routes but the L25 will be frequently stuck in the very jam I just described coming down towards Rockfield. The north bound 86 will be also frequently stuck behind cars waiting for a filter to turn left at the goat and the S6 will be stuck by the same increased level of traffic heading between the Goat and Taney.

Not to mention what increased traffic anywhere along the drummartin link road will cause to a road that is already over capacity at the best of times.

This is bottlenecking traffic in an already bottlenecked section of the suburbs even further.

Marty Bird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123530926#Comment_123530926

That’s the one on the way to the lights.

and that’s at the lights.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532185#Comment_123532185

Or perhaps more people will use the bus services? The L25 in particular is seeing serious growth in user numbers.

At that location the L25 is near the end of the route so the impact on the reliability of the services isn't as bad.

They have to try and do something. Traffic is using Upper Kilmacud Road especially at peak times effectively as a rat run from the junction with Overend Way to Barton Road East - that's not good for the village either as well as the impact on the 14 (or A2 and A4 in the future). Cars backed up as far as the junction with Sydenham Road is not good.

I certainly think that Overend Way has probably more capacity than you're crediting it with to deal with most of cars using Upper Kilmacud Road, as does Wyckham Bypass and then down Ballinteer Road to Barton Road roundabout.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532066#Comment_123532066

The '4' bus route is a busy one, and comes through the TEK/Stradbrook Hill roundabout too, and will be hit badly by tailbacks to get from there onto the Rock Road.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123531762#Comment_123531762

You weren't just pretending to need a wheelchair again, by any chance? If you do want to look out for wheelchair users, maybe start by avoiding offensive, dated terminology like 'wheelchair bound'.

And feel free to use the slightly longer route through Deans Grange, if that's what is important to you.

nomdeboardie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532244#Comment_123532244

Thank, yes - I found it on streetview later and put up a screenshot on post 4344

Larbre34

Worth noting that Dún Laoghaire Living Streets - Phase 1 is this.

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/dlrcoco/files/2025-01/22410-BTL-XX-DL-DR-CE-00460-00470_DL1_Phase_1_General_Arrangement_P02.pdf

As you can see, it entails entirely peripheral measures to modify junctions and public realm locations, but none of the controversial and impactful elements, i.e. the closure of George's Street Lower, or the closure of Tivoli Road at Mulgrave Street or the vanity project at Clarinda Park gardens and Tennis Courts.

This is for two reasons.

1) Nothing after Phase 1 is currently funded and

2) There is no appetite among the current Council executive to implement them, unlike the zealots who held some of those senior official roles at the time of the approval of the Part 8, just before the 2024 local elections.

It should be noted, finally, that just like domestic planning permissions, the Part 8 approval bestows no obligation on the local authority to complete the full scheme, if there is (a) no funding for it, or (b) it has been overtaken by other events. Part 8s also wither after 5 years, as with domestic permissions.

I mention this as a 'by the way', for reasons that shall become clear later in the year, or early next, specifically when the Phase 1 measures are complete.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532659#Comment_123532659

With FG & FF combined being on 21/40 DLR councilors now they've no excuse, they can't be blaming the Greens for all the traffic restricting measures that local people don't actually want or need.

Homesick Alien

Ah isn't it lovely all the same that everyone's back together having a good old gripe about road changes and taking little digs at eachother. This thread's been way too quiet.

Good times

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532659#Comment_123532659

Do you or other people here think that the council could apply the same logic regarding lack of funding to the phases needed to be implemented for 'Living Streets Blackrock'?

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123531755#Comment_123531755

I really do think that you should the original post, before you start speculating on my likes or dislikes!

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123530283#Comment_123530283

So what?

The fact remains that most traffic use roads to go places. Does that traffic have to stop in every town and village along the way to legitimately use the route? Otherwise you will have to build a dedicated individual route from every home in Ireland to every possible destination so they can avoid incorrectly using a route because they might not be stopping at some village along the way. Restricting the use of streets doesn't solve our traffic problems, it jut pushes it elsewhere.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532285#Comment_123532285

So you previously argued that buses not being delayed was the goal but then say actually wait its fine if buses are delayed….. I am delighted if more people are using buses however its not just people waiting for a bus that causes issues and why people don't use the service, its people actually getting to the destination in a reliable time too, if there are delays caused by bottlenecking traffic like i predict this scheme will do then less people will use it, not more.

Traffic is not using the ability to cross the village as a rat run its using it as direct route to access the housing estates in churchtown and vice versa without getting stuck at the bottleneck on the west side of taney or having to get stuck at the two sets of lights or the frequently logjammed roundabout outside dundrum centre. Also its simply just a very direct and convenient route for many to get where they want to go especially due to how badly designed wyckham way is with accessing any housing estates on the north side of it is, sure even if you want to get into the same housing estates via using Taney you need to drive all the way down to the bottle tower or even nutgrove instead of the far quicker and convenient method of simply crossing through the village. I regularly cross the village using it at peak times and off peak times and i have only very rarely seen it backed up as far as sydenham road.

Theoretically overend way does have room for a third lane until you realise that space is required for the 2 turning lanes at the entrance to the underground parking at rockfield and the entrance to airfield. Removing both of these to install a dedicated third lane in either direction would again just create more traffic.

Your own and many peoples attitude to this seems to be "They must do something! This is something! Lets do this!"

I love the phrase the "enemy of good is perfect" especially when it comes to large projects and infrastructure but this is not even close to good and to my eyes will just make things worse..

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532937#Comment_123532937

Well I think you may be in for a bit of a shock, as that’s exactly what’s going to happen when the Core Bus Corridors start construction this year - there are numerous bus gates planned across the city as part of these that will see car traffic restricted.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532970#Comment_123532970

I actually specifically did make the comment about reliability of the entire route being caused by delays at the very start of it.

As someone who uses the bus every day, I see the delays that Dundrum can cause to the 14 all along the route - if there is going to be a bus every 5-6 minutes doing the loop they will need to get a clear enough run - otherwise the reliability of the service along the entire route gets hit.

At Overend Way the L25 has three stops left before it reaches the terminus - any additional traffic diverted from Kilmacud Road (which would likely be split across the two routes, Taney Road and Overend Way) is not going to disrupt the service significantly as it is at the end of the route, and most people get off at the Town Centre stop anyways. Bus schedules have recovery time built into them so that a couple of minutes delay at the end of the route won’t affect the next trip.

People keep giving about the buses not being reliable - yet when something is proposed that would improve the reliability of two high frequency spine routes which will connect with LUAS at Dundrum, but which does cause car traffic to take alternative routes, then it’s immediately a bad thing.

My “attitude” as you call it is born out of frustration from sitting on a 14 bus crawling down Kilmacud Road, having sped out from town on a LUAS, only for the trip home to end up taking as long as it would if I’d taken a 14 from town, or from waiting for a 14 to come from Dundrum only for it to take double the amount of time it should because of traffic.

Should a far greater number of people who are using public transport be discommoded by an unreliable bus service just to facilitate a more convenient short cut for private cars? That’s the choice that we are facing and Government policy is to improve public transport. That’s unfortunately not going to happen in the case of the bus service without making some hard decisions and implementing changes that car drivers may not like.

Once they start construction on the radial core bus corridors later this year, my understanding is that the NTA will move onto looking at the orbital corridors and see what can be done with them in terms of delivering more bus priority.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532937#Comment_123532937

Are you just going to ignore buses in your analysis?

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533036#Comment_123533036

How is pushing more traffic into taney junction and onto the dundrum bypass going to fix the 14 or any bus getting stuck on its way in or out of the city?

The problem is Taney junction both north and south and dundrum bypass are over capacity and that is what is slowing the buses not people driving from kilmacud road to ballinteer road simply to get from one side of the village to the other, if anything that reduces traffic on the bypass. Also having the Terminus located where it is again at such an over capacity junction is another part of the problem as the bypass is regularly blocked up all the way back to where they need to exit the terminus to just start their routes.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123534128#Comment_123534128

Giving priority to busses, increasing the frequency and reliability results in less cars as people will move to public transport

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123534128#Comment_123534128

I’m guessing from that post that you don’t actually use the 14 to/from Dundrum?

The 14 does a clockwise loop from Dundrum LUAS via Taney Road, Sydenham Road and Upper Kilmacud Road going northbound at the start of the route.

The proposed changes will make that trip less susceptible to delays.

Services towards Dundrum come down Ballinteer Road and then use Dundrum Main St to get to the terminus. Even Dundrum Main St is not a particular traffic problem for it in terms of getting to the terminus.

At that stage of the route towards Dundrum most people are already off the bus, and as I explained above the bus will have recovery time in the schedule before it starts its next northbound trip.

The 14 does not use the bypass, except to turn out of the terminus and onto Taney Road, and only uses Taney Road eastbound as far as Sydenham Road.

With due respect, as someone who uses the 14 virtually every day, unlike you it would appear, I think I’m qualified to know where it particularly gets held up, at peak times especially, and it most certainly does get stuck on Kilmacud Road Upper at peak times.

The Taney junction is undoubtedly a mess, but there are other plans to move the A2/A4 terminus, and remove it from in service buses on those routes, but whether they happen or not is another thing. Bus priority lights could be an alternative using a new exit directly onto Taney Road.

Having the terminus beside the LUAS stop is rather important - it’s a key interchange location.

The A2 and A4 will be 50% of the A Spine and will be operating to Dublin Airport or Swords via Ballinteer or Nutgrove, Rathfarnham, Terenure, Rathgar, Rathmines, City Centre and out the Swords Road. Removing potential delays is key to their reliable operation.

Government policy (formulated by the FG government back in 2018) is to expand public transport frequency and to prioritise it where ever possible. That’s why these sort of measures are happening.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123534154#Comment_123534154

More "we must do something, this is something, lets do this"

Im not against public transport I just think the dlr connector changes in and around dunrdrum village is going to exacerbate the many problems affecting public transport in and around dundrum and not solve anything

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532304#Comment_123532304

Absolute scumbag comment, you should be ashamed of yourself.

LXFlyer

That 14 has just had to wait in traffic backed up to Sydenham Road while the lights went through three phases before getting onto Ballinteer Road.

It took it 11 minutes to get onto Ballinteer Road from the terminus, and over half of that was spent on the Upper Kilmacud Road.

That’s just nonsensical.

Dublin Calling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123537348#Comment_123537348

There is not much traffic going through the village any more. Changing the light sequence would speed up the bus. As it is, pedestrians have a high priority at those lights. The two lollipop ladies at the schools up the road probably also cause a delay.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123537130#Comment_123537130

From the lad who advocates feigning an injury to get a wheelchair to skip an airport queue, I'll take that as a compliment.

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123537771#Comment_123537771

Well if you wanna admit to being a scumbag, then have it.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123537960#Comment_123537960

I'm not the one advocating feigning an injury to get wheelchair privileges.

Mav11

Andrew, would you ever give it a rest and stop killing the thread. Thanks