Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

AOH77A

AOH77A wrote: »

No doubting Rory at his best is match for anyone. But his under performance in the majors for the last few years is a symptom of deeper issues.

The problem may be mental as this stage. Bad start and then plays great for top 5 finish is the norm. No real pressure as there is no expectation of actually winning.

If he does make it into the mix on the final day of a major not sure he what it takes to finish under the pressure.

After 6 years its definitely looks like it has become a mental thing.

Macker1

This is the Rory thread so specifically in regards to himself he is a great player and will be remembered for playing fantastic golf at times during his career but......its also very fair to say that given his prodigious talent he has underachieved when it comes to the Majors. Its a lot harder to win in recent years given the depth of players capable of shooting out the lights but Rory should have at least another 2-3 majors to his name by now.

Very Frustrating to watch him at times given his excellent driving. Other lesser players (I jest as their all brilliant) have much better short iron games which if Rory worked on I'm sure he would close out more tournaments.

boardise

Realistically ,if Rory stays fit and motivated he'll have another dozen good cuts at the Masters and my feeling is he'll snag one. He has the game for the course -it's a matter of whether he can treat it as 'just another tournament' and escape from all the hype about grand slams etc. I think he will probably snaffle another couple of the other majors. He may have periodic slumps but he's surely too good not to hit a few hot streaks along the way.

I think if he can get another one in the bag he will relax a bit more and more will follow.

Dustin is the man to beat now though. His win the Masters will increase his confidence too.

kippy

Macker1 wrote: »

This is the Rory thread so specifically in regards to himself he is a great player and will be remembered for playing fantastic golf at times during his career but......its also very fair to say that given his prodigious talent he has underachieved when it comes to the Majors. Its a lot harder to win in recent years given the depth of players capable of shooting out the lights but Rory should have at least another 2-3 majors to his name by now.

Very Frustrating to watch him at times given his excellent driving. Other lesser players (I jest as their all brilliant) have much better short iron games which if Rory worked on I'm sure he would close out more tournaments.

There are lots of extremely talented golfers out there who haven't the trophy cabinet and bank balance that Rory has. Again it think you have to ask yourself what motivates him, what makes him tick and how much mentality and the ability to manage it, is a factor in this sport.

fullstop

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

I agree, Bailey99 post doesn’t really compute for me.

Tiger makes a 10 on the 12th yet he shows mental strength to recover the way he did.

However, when McIlroy makes an error on the 16th on Thursday, he throws the toys out of the pram and believes he out of the tournament.

Nothing about the fact he proceeds to shoot the 2nd lowest score through the final 3 rounds. No mental strength there etc.

There just seems a lack of consistency in that conclusion.

Exactly. Was waiting for it all weekend. If he shoots 74 first round and goes out and shoots another one, the narrative is “he gives up when things aren’t going his way...can’t grind it out” etc., when he goes out and turns things around it’s “oh well what’s the point...back door top 5”.

bailey99

fullstop wrote: »

Exactly. Was waiting for it all weekend. If he shoots 74 first round and goes out and shoots another one, the narrative is “he gives up when things aren’t going his way...can’t grind it out” etc., when he goes out and turns things around it’s “oh well what’s the point...back door top 5”.

Another great result for Rory so is it? He's unreal for the auld top 5's.

fullstop

bailey99 wrote: »

Another great result for Rory so is it? He's unreal for the auld top 5's.

Did I say that??

But now you mention it, yes, a top 5 in a major is a good (maybe not GREAT) result for pretty much anybody.

Is it supposed to be a bad thing that he finishes top 5 or top 10 in most majors, or are you just another one of these lads who can’t wait to get a dig in for some unknown reason?

What about aul tiger making 10s and barely scraping top 40? Made a few birdies after the 10 when the pressure was off in fairness to him.

bailey99

fullstop wrote: »

But now you mention it, yes, a top 5 in a major is a good (maybe not GREAT) result for pretty much anybody.

Do you think jack Nicklaus talks about his 19 times he was a runner up in a major? Or about the 56 times he was in the top 5 in a major?

I'd say he only ever talks about the eighteen times he won a Major. I'd imagine Rory is if the same vein. The elite in sports couldn't give a dam about top fives. They care about winning.

PARlance

blue note wrote: »

If you need them all to be a true great, you can knock Phil Mickelson, Seve, Faldo, Tom Watson and Arnold Palmer off that list. Do you actually think that?

Well I would certainly be in favour of keeping a list of "true greats" as small as possible, such accolades are often thrown about too easily in sport I feel... like there seemingly being 100's of world class footballers at any one time.... but I can't say I put too much thought into it before posting earlier and at the end of the day it's just subjective waffle really.

The Grand Slam would be my starting point and I wouldn't be keen on opening it up too much.

From the modern era: Jack, Tiger, Hogan and Player with their slams.

No problem with adding Palmer to that as the PGA wasn't as big of a Major when he was playing, it often held the week following The Open afaik and most played in one or the other at the time.

Watson with 8 Majors, including 5 British Opens would get in on the basis of links golf being a different game and he only missed out on the lesser PGA.

Seve, no US Open or PGA. His impact on the Ryder Cup is deserving enough to make up the difference... and he's Seve.

I would keep it at those 7, but it's just my take on it so feel free to class in whatever way you feel. In the interest of keeping it an elite of the elite, I'm ok with Phil and Faldo not being included.

/apologies for off topic.

Rory would get there with a Masters.

thewobbler

PARlance wrote: »

Well I would certainly be in favour of keeping a list of "true greats" as small as possible, such accolades are often thrown about too easily in sport I feel... like there seemingly being 100's of world class footballers at any one time.... but I can't say I put too much thought into it before posting earlier and at the end of the day it's just subjective waffle really.

The Grand Slam would be my starting point and I wouldn't be keen on opening it up too much.

From the modern era: Jack, Tiger, Hogan and Player with their slams.

No problem with adding Palmer to that as the PGA wasn't as big of a Major when he was playing, it often held the week following The Open afaik and most played in one or the other at the time.

Watson with 8 Majors, including 5 British Opens would get in on the basis of links golf being a different game and he only missed out on the lesser PGA.

Seve, no US Open or PGA. His impact on the Ryder Cup is deserving enough to make up the difference... and he's Seve.

I would keep it at those 7, but it's just my take on it so feel free to class in whatever way you feel. In the interest of keeping it an elite of the elite, I'm ok with Phil and Faldo not being included.

/apologies for off topic.

Rory would get there with a Masters.

So basically Seve gets in because you can adjust the rules any way you like, when it suits.

PARlance

thewobbler wrote: »

So basically Seve gets in because you can adjust the rules any way you like, when it suits.

It's probably not worth crying into the cornflakes over!

It won't surprise you to hear that I'm not the authority on such classifications.

thewobbler

PARlance wrote: »

It's probably not worth crying into the cornflakes over!

It won't surprise you to hear that I'm not the authority on such classifications.

Ah I know. It’s harsh and pedantic of me.

But if you’re going to go to the bother of defining a minimum criteria for all-time-greatness, then it probably should be maintained for everyone.

Especially so if you giving Seve bonus points for performances in a competition that the likes of Singh, Els, Price, Thomson and Player couldn’t compete in!

fullstop

bailey99 wrote: »

Do you think jack Nicklaus talks about his 19 times he was a runner up in a major? Or about the 56 times he was in the top 5 in a major?

I'd say he only ever talks about the eighteen times he won a Major. I'd imagine Rory is if the same vein. The elite in sports couldn't give a dam about top fives. They care about winning.

Yeah that’s totally what I said :rolleyes:

BoardsMember

The one stat most of us have seen by now, a number of times, is the thing that identifies the issue, but maybe not the cause

Majors since 2015:
1st Round: 28 over
Rounds 2-4: 56 under

Some say it shows he's able to battle - having played poorly first round, he battles his ass off to get back into it/make the cut.

Some say its all very well playing great when any chance of winning is gone, and with no pressure.

I think it is hard to dispute that he struggles to cope with the pressure of the majors.

When he won majors, his first round scores were always good:
US Open 2011: 65, 3 shot lead, won by 8
US PGA 2012: 67, 2nd place (1 behind Pettersson), won by 8
The Open 2014: 66, 3 shot lead, won by 2 (close all the way)
US PGA 2014: 66, 2nd place (1 behind Ryan Palmer), won by 1 (close all the way)

One read on that is that with such strong fields, you can't be too far back after round one in a major.

My own view - he wants it so much, and he's struggling to cope with the pressure and t perform on day 1. Some of the swings and some of the shots and day 1 were so poor, for me his head was gone.

moycullen14

BoardsMember wrote: »

The one stat most of us have seen by now, a number of times, is the thing that identifies the issue, but maybe not the cause

Majors since 2015:
1st Round: 28 over
Rounds 2-4: 56 under

Some say it shows he's able to battle - having played poorly first round, he battles his ass off to get back into it/make the cut.

Some say its all very well playing great when any chance of winning is gone, and with no pressure.

I think it is hard to dispute that he struggles to cope with the pressure of the majors.

When he won majors, his first round scores were always good:
US Open 2011: 65, 3 shot lead, won by 8
US PGA 2012: 67, 2nd place (1 behind Pettersson), won by 8
The Open 2014: 66, 3 shot lead, won by 2 (close all the way)
US PGA 2014: 66, 2nd place (1 behind Ryan Palmer), won by 1 (close all the way)

One read on that is that with such strong fields, you can't be too far back after round one in a major.

My own view - he wants it so much, and he's struggling to cope with the pressure and t perform on day 1. Some of the swings and some of the shots and day 1 were so poor, for me his head was gone.

Don't you just love statistics?

On the face of it, that looks like an enormous difference between rounds 1 & the rest. 84 shots! But........

Assuming 24 majors since 2015, that means his first round average is slightly more than +1. The other 3 rounds average out at about 0.5 under par. So less than a 2 shot difference between Rnd 1 and the rest. How many of those majors has he lost by less than 2 shots?

BoardsMember

moycullen14 wrote: »

Don't you just love statistics?

On the face of it, that looks like an enormous difference between rounds 1 & the rest. 84 shots! But........

Assuming 24 majors since 2015, that means his first round average is slightly more than +1. The other 3 rounds average out at about 0.5 under par. So less than a 2 shot difference between Rnd 1 and the rest. How many of those majors has he lost by less than 2 shots?

Agreed, but the reason I included the 1st round scores in the majors that he won is to show that he's had to score in the mid sixties to win majors.

I don't have the stats, but if you take that mid sixties number as in or around what Rory needs to score in the 1st round in a major in order to win, then
he's been six or seven shots off what is needed.

Not at all scientific I know, but it allows us to see some additional perspective on the 28 over in the first rounds since 2015.

Russman

moycullen14 wrote: »

Don't you just love statistics?

On the face of it, that looks like an enormous difference between rounds 1 & the rest. 84 shots! But........

Assuming 24 majors since 2015, that means his first round average is slightly more than +1. The other 3 rounds average out at about 0.5 under par. So less than a 2 shot difference between Rnd 1 and the rest. How many of those majors has he lost by less than 2 shots?

Its actually closer to 3 shots. Sky put up the numbers the other day, can't remember exactly, but I think its was 72.5 Vs 69.9 for round 1 versus the other 3 rounds. Something close to that anyway. Bear in mind lots of par 70s in the US Open and USPGA rotas.
Hard to understand how it happens, like if it was one or two tournaments you'd say, ahh its just golf and these things happen, but it so consistent.

ligerdub

PARlance wrote: »

No problem with adding Palmer to that as the PGA wasn't as big of a Major when he was playing, it often held the week following The Open afaik and most played in one or the other at the time.

Not true. The PGA was a huge tournament for American players back then. The Open was seen as the lesser tournament, and the reason they could schedule them so close was because very few if any Americans bothered to go over. You have to remember that essentially there were two golf worlds back then. The British and American golf worlds pretty much isolated themselves, and it was really only the amateur game that may have overlapped. The Americans were trailblazers for tour professional golf, and were able to build up major tournaments every year. The Americans rightly considered the US Open as their main goal, then the Masters and PGA. The Brits considered the Open to be their big one.

In actual fact it was the likes of Arnold Palmer who saved the prestige of the Open by making a call to action for the prominent US players to go over and compete, probably taking a hit to the pocket in the process. Ben Hogan chose to play in the Open in 1953 rather than the PGA for a couple of reasons. One was that the matchplay format of the PGA made it a tough slog on his post-accident body, the other was to complete the set of big trophies under his belt. He played it once and never again.

RoadRunner

BoardsMember wrote: »

The one stat most of us have seen by now, a number of times, is the thing that identifies the issue, but maybe not the cause

Majors since 2015:
1st Round: 28 over
Rounds 2-4: 56 under

.....

My own view - he wants it so much, and he's struggling to cope with the pressure and t perform on day 1. Some of the swings and some of the shots and day 1 were so poor, for me his head was gone.

Just as cyclists need saddle time, he could do with playing more on course (not range session)

Dav010

RoadRunner wrote: »

Just as cyclists need saddle time, he could do with playing more on course (not range session)

It’s hard to see how first day performance is due to anything other than the six inches between his ears. Unless you consider that his first round is just practice before he focuses in earnest from the second round onwards. This isn’t due to the sharpness of his game, he proved that on Fri/sat/sun just gone.

abff

Strange figures. If they were not allowed to play practice rounds on the course before playing in events, it might make some sort of sense (although, not really), but it does call into question his temperament. Hard to understand, really.

Russman

abff wrote: »

Strange figures. If they were not allowed to play practice rounds on the course before playing in events, it might make some sort of sense (although, not really), but it does call into question his temperament. Hard to understand, really.

That's it exactly, its such a weird stat and yet it holds up over what, 5 or 6 seasons.

Just blathering here, but could it be that, given who he is, he's mostly paired with other top guys in R1 & 2, these guys are mostly his friends (JT, DJ, Rickie etc), and his mindset is very subtly different for whatever reason, or they're able to go into "game" mode easier than he is ? And he somehow gets back to himself for R2 when he's halfway out of contention already. Pure speculation obviously, but I always worry when I see him paired with JT - who it seems almost always has the beating of him when the play together.

Wonder is he too stubborn for a call to Bob Rotella.

LuckyGent88

Superb start this morning anyway.

blue note

I'm going to call it now. He's going to get back to world number 1 this year and win at least one major including the masters.

DuckSlice

blue note wrote: »

I'm going to call it now. He's going to get back to world number 1 this year and win at least one major including the masters.

I really hope you are right.

benny79

I actually think you could be right and I would say Covid has a lot to do with it. Seriously, its made people realise what they had/have and what there missing and
appreciate things a bit more plus the likes of him motivation to work harder at what they love. I know they can still travel and play golf unlike us mere morals but I reckon it still has an effect on them.

bigtimecharlie

A superb start alright.

The masters is his focus for now. He needs to get that monkey off his back.

LuckyGent88

The first thing I’d like to see him do in a major this year is contend anyway. Be in the mix on the back 9. Feels like he hasn’t done that in a while never mind win one

Bill Ponderosa

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

The first thing I’d like to see him do in a major this year is contend anyway. Be in the mix on the back 9. Feels like he hasn’t done that in a while never mind win one

First round is crucial in a major for Rory, too often he gets off to mediocre starts and is too far behind by Friday.