CI Presidency

wav1

morana wrote: »

As well as the presidency the Office has released the documentation for the AGM download from cyclingireland.ie. a good few motions up for discussion as well as board elections and the Presidential election. I glanced thru it today but couldnt really digest it,. One that that did stand out was the grading review and in particular the IVCA bit.
I have some views on the grading but it seems ok in general.

Yes.Some improvements proposed in there i believe.You def wont please everybody but i feel it will be a good start.Some good stuff there that will improve the lot of our over 50s riders and the Woman.

wav1

6 X days to go to the AGM folks.This is the platform for a rant that can count towards the future.
2 X Contestants for the Presidency

Forum on Future commissions and HP etc

Some interesting motions re grading,masters category,on line entry system etc.
Full AGM pack including,reports,financial reports,etc now on cyclingireland.ie .
Interesting to see how many will show up to this on the day.About 180 at the EGM.Imagine attendance wont even come close to that.First time since the 90s that there has been a contest for the president.2 good candidates who have been working for the votes.Interesting to see how it goes.

fat bloke

morana wrote: »

I hope Val Considine could be persuaded to stand. !!!

I have a smear campaign ready to launch, just in case...

Beasty

There are also Board seats up for grabs, with 4 people going for 3 places. However I heard the other day that one of them has withdrawn, which would mean on the face of it Messrs Horgan, Toomey and Mitchell will automatically get in. The situation is complicated though as Toomey is going for the Presidency and if he gets it that would leave a vacancy. In those circmstances I understand nominations may be made for the vacancy from the floor on the day.

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

There are also Board seats up for grabs, with 4 people going for 3 places. However I heard the other day that one of them has withdrawn, which would mean on the face of it Messrs Horgan, Toomey and Mitchell will automatically get in. The situation is complicated though as Toomey is going for the Presidency and if he gets it that would leave a vacancy. In those circmstances I understand nominations may be made for the vacancy from the floor on the day.

As i understand it your information is spot on Beasty.If Toomey gets the chair they have 2 options as i understand it.
1 Take nominations from the floor for the vacant position.
2 Leave it open and co opt somebody at a later stage.
For me,id like to see it filled on the day,and that way at least the membership will have some say on who it is.

CramCycle

Slightly off topic but what is the expected (I realise this can be way off) end time for the AGM? I know it starts at 11. How long would it go on for, roughly, based on previous years.

wav1

CramCycle wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what is the expected (I realise this can be way off) end time for the AGM? I know it starts at 11. How long would it go on for, roughly, based on previous years.

There is a forum/presentation at the end of the meeting on a few different items.I'd say it will be done and dusted by 5pm or not much after.

wav1

2 x days to go.Have to say at this stage i like what Ciaran Mc Kenna seems to be about.He is adamant that powers and more importantly finance,will be returned to the commissions at the different specifics.Communications with the office for members is also high on the agenda.I think and hope he could bring about positive actions in these areas.I have known him a long time and i think his experience in dealing with the sports council in the past could also yield benefits.

Beasty

Well I'm keeping my cards close to my chest on this one, but from my interaction with the pair of them I can see positives in both options

I think Denis may have more time to devote to the role, and brings experience from outside the traditional male-dominated road racing side of the sport. He has shown his delivery capabilities with his management of the paracycling squad

Ciaran has been there before and does have experience of working within the Board environment in the past. I was also pleased to see him turn up to the Track Commission AGM last week and listen to some of the grass root concerns

They both see shortcomings in the Commission structure and coming up with something that works better seems to be a priority

The most important skill to me though is communication and actually building on what we achieved with getting the EGM called earlier this year. In my view there is a wealth of untapped talent within CI, and the Board, Commissions, Provinces and clubs need to make the regular members realise they are as important as everyone else in the organisation. Not only do their views count, but everyone can contribute to the growth in Cycling in Ireland in different ways. That may be helping out with events, taking on responsibility within the organisation, marshalling the local club race etc. I feel there is definitely a disconnect with the membership at present, and sometimes the membership perhaps expects too much of their elected representatives. None of us should expect our races or sportives to be presented on a plate to us. If we want to get something out of cycling we need to be prepared to put something in and not rely on the likes of wav1 and a relatively small number of others to do it all for us.

12 sprocket

Beasty wrote: »

Well I'm keeping my cards close to my chest on this one, but from my interaction with the pair of them I can see positives in both options

I think Denis may have more time to devote to the role, and brings experience from outside the traditional male-dominated road racing side of the sport. He has shown his delivery capabilities with his management of the paracycling squad

Ciaran has been there before and does have experience of working within the Board environment in the past. I was also pleased to see him turn up to the Track Commission AGM last week and listen to some of the grass root concerns

They both see shortcomings in the Commission structure and coming up with something that works better seems to be a priority

The most important skill to me though is communication and actually building on what we achieved with getting the EGM called earlier this year. In my view there is a wealth of untapped talent within CI, and the Board, Commissions, Provinces and clubs need to make the regular members realise they are as important as everyone else in the organisation. Not only do their views count, but everyone can contribute to the growth in Cycling in Ireland in different ways. That may be helping out with events, taking on responsibility within the organisation, marshalling the local club race etc. I feel there is definitely a disconnect with the membership at present, and sometimes the membership perhaps expects too much of their elected representatives. None of us should expect our races or sportives to be presented on a plate to us. If we want to get something out of cycling we need to be prepared to put something in and not rely on the likes of wav1 and a relatively small number of others to do it all for us.

Beasty
They are all very fine and laudable sentiments about getting people involved, and their are some great people involved and hopefully more new people will participate. But the facts are that most members of cycling Ireland only want to ride their bikes and have no interest in what goes on unless it affects them directly. I imagine most organisations are the same.
Best wishes to Outgoing President Rory Wyley who leaves a strong legacy behind him

Beasty

12 sprocket wrote: »

Beasty
They are all very fine and laudable sentiments about getting people involved, and their are some great people involved and hopefully more new people will participate.

You seem happy with the "Old guard" continuing to exert major influence and shape the direction of CI. TBH, I am not. I think there is a major diconnect at present, which was highlighted in this summer's events. CI should not be in the business of telling everyone what is good for them - they should be engaging with the membership and taking on board the feedback they get

I am the first to praise the Board for their efforts in what is a pretty thankless task, but I genuinely believe there is room for massive improvement and hope a change in presidency can give the sport a direction it has, frankly, been missing

12 sprocket

Beasty wrote: »

You seem happy with the "Old guard" continuing to exert major influence and shape the direction of CI. TBH, I am not. I think there is a major diconnect at present, which was highlighted in this summer's events. CI should not be in the business of telling everyone what is good for them - they should be engaging with the membership and taking on board the feedback they get

I am the first to praise the Board for their efforts in what is a pretty thankless task, but I genuinely believe there is room for massive improvement and hope a change in presidency can give the sport a direction it has, frankly, been missing

Beasty
Why do you feel the need to attack me and misinterpret what I have written,read my post !! I have no interest in keeping old guards as you call them going. I am interested in Cycling! Whoever does a good job for cycling is fine by me. I was merely stating what is my experience that most people just want to ride their bikes, and have no interest in working as volunteers or committing to take responsibility for some section of cycling..
Did Wav not say that in an earlier post about getting people to commit to work for leinster at the agm..
And in fact I do think new blood is always good especially people who might not have a totally cycling background and who might bring new ideas to the sport. I hope if you do get involved with working for cycling that a more open minded approach is possible from you.

Beasty

To be clear I was not attacking you and indeed do not feel I have ever attacked you. I was simply trying to interpret your comments in what I considered a rational manner

I do feel there is a disconnect with the membership, and I have been in touch with both candidates to explain this and provide one or two ideas on how this may be addressed (as well as comments on other aspects of the role). In my view the rapid rise in memberhip means that a new approach is needed and I am hopeful that a new president can help deliver that.

Whoever gets in will have my support, and I hope they will engage better with the membership (indeed as morana did when he was on the Board).

RobFowl

When cyclists fight it's not a good look.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRTlStScolw

Lusk_Doyle

12 sprocket wrote: »

Beasty
They are all very fine and laudable sentiments about getting people involved, and their are some great people involved and hopefully more new people will participate. But the facts are that most members of cycling Ireland only want to ride their bikes and have no interest in what goes on unless it affects them directly. I imagine most organisations are the same.
Best wishes to Outgoing President Rory Wyley who leaves a strong legacy behind him

Can you elaborate by what you mean in relation to this statement?

12 sprocket wrote: »

Beasty
Why do you feel the need to attack me and misinterpret what I have written,read my post !! I have no interest in keeping old guards as you call them going. I am interested in Cycling! Whoever does a good job for cycling is fine by me. I was merely stating what is my experience that most people just want to ride their bikes, and have no interest in working as volunteers or committing to take responsibility for some section of cycling..
Did Wav not say that in an earlier post about getting people to commit to work for leinster at the agm..
And in fact I do think new blood is always good especially people who might not have a totally cycling background and who might bring new ideas to the sport. I hope if you do get involved with working for cycling that a more open minded approach is possible from you.

The last thing that I would label Beasty as being is close-minded. I'm sure many on here and within our club would agree that he has been very forthright, up front and clear in his opinions regarding the management of the cycling bodies both national and international. I for one, thank his efforts and would consider him to be very open minded in his efforts to help deliver a better future for cycling both here and abroad.

Lusk_Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

To be clear I was not attacking you and indeed do not feel I have ever attacked you. I was simply trying to interpret your comments in what I considered a rational manner

I do feel there is a disconnect with the membership, and I have been in touch with both candidates to explain this and provide one or two ideas on how this may be addressed (as well as comments on other aspects of the role). In my view the rapid rise in memberhip means that a new approach is needed and I am hopeful that a new president can help deliver that.

Whoever gets in will have my support, and I hope they will engage better with the membership (indeed as morana did when he was on the Board).

^^^This.

wav1

I dont think the President can bring huge change all at once,but what they can do is to start communications with the relevent sectors within the sport,and with his help and support,these people can make change on the ground.This i feel is where the breakdown has been for the past number of years.The commissions or call them what you want,given real leadership and funding can make change.In the AGM reports for tomorrow there has been no reports submitted by either the road or youth commission.Not on in my opinion.28k allocation in 2013 across all commissions.Nothing or very little can be done with this type of funding.Youth is a really important one.Keep saying it,but the current crop of Juniors will all go on to what we all hope will be successful senior riders,another crop needs to be coming through all the time.This worries me at present,as there appears to be nothing happening for the youth at National level except fpr the Talent Team 2020 which is only for a very few.The rest of the kids must be looked after as well,as facts proove that a lot of them who show little talent at youth level,mature as riders a little later,and come in to their own as juniors and beyond.So its hugely important that these type of kids are encouraged and retained in the syste.I will be hoping for that type of support and input from the incoming president.I think we have 2 good candidates tomorrow,and i wish whoever comes through all the very best.For me and our clubs 4 votes we're with Ciaran this time.

RobFowl

wav1 wrote: »

For me and our clubs 4 votes we're with Ciaran this time.

Just to re iterate that clubs are granted a number of delegates/votes but for example Swords have 4 but we'd have to send 4 delegates to actually vote. If we only send 2 we only get 2 votes.

RobFowl

Obe quick point re funding for commissions etc.
CI have very, very limited funds and with most if not all the HP funding there is next to no flexibility or discretion as to where it goes.
I'd take any promises of increased funding with a grain of salt unless it's accompanied by details of where it's going to come from.....

RobFowl

12 sprocket wrote: »

Best wishes to Outgoing President Rory Wyley who leaves a strong legacy behind him

I'd like to echo 12 sprockets comments.
Rory has done an outstanding job over his 2 terms.

wav1

RobFowl wrote: »

Obe quick point re funding for commissions etc.
CI have very, very limited funds and with most if not all the HP funding there is next to no flexibility or discretion as to where it goes.
I'd take any promises of increased funding with a grain of salt unless it's accompanied by details of where it's going to come from.....

On the earlier poine im well aware that theres no voting by proxy.
IE we will have 4 x individual delegates.
As for the funding issue.About 5 yrs ago the youth comm had funding of circa 24k.I assume that most ot the youth money is now spent on the TT2020 team which in essence is HP,which is unfair on the kids that get no attention or support.Thats the problem i've had with this sice its inception.Exclusive not inclusive.

RobFowl

wav1 wrote: »

On the earlier poine im well aware that theres no voting by proxy.
IE we will have 4 x individual delegates.
As for the funding issue.About 5 yrs ago the youth comm had funding of circa 24k.I assume that most ot the youth money is now spent on the TT2020 team which in essence is HP,which is unfair on the kids that get no attention or support.Thats the problem i've had with this sice its inception.Exclusive not inclusive.

Was fairly sure you knew what you were at, kind of made that point for others.
AFAIK my club is entitled to 4 but only 2 delegates are going.
HP funding has been reduced by about 25% in total over the past 5 years (7% in the last budget alone).
The whole commission structure needs reviewed, I think everyone agree's on that.
I'm just trying (badly) to make the point that funds are tight and for the road commission to get and extra 10k for example,that 10k would have to be taken off something else.

12 sprocket

wav1 wrote: »

On the earlier poine im well aware that theres no voting by proxy.
IE we will have 4 x individual delegates.
As for the funding issue.About 5 yrs ago the youth comm had funding of circa 24k.I assume that most ot the youth money is now spent on the TT2020 team which in essence is HP,which is unfair on the kids that get no attention or support.Thats the problem i've had with this sice its inception.Exclusive not inclusive.

Wav
Cycling Ireland have brought in a more targeted approach to squads with the riders who show talent and commitment getting on to them and getting excellent coaching. Hence the big jump in performance especially from Juniors who have come through the System which is only really in place for 2.5 years.. Its no co-incidence that the good juniors are now beating a lot of the seniors and that's as it should be.

Its working so its money well spent and the squads are there for all riders to aspire to. I do agree with you that all riders need to be catered for and that's where the clubs and commissions come in. The commissions have a great opportunity to develop programmes. however the programmes need to be programmes that retain and develop the riders ability. Good coaching is the key and best value for money spent.

wav1

12 sprocket wrote: »

Wav
Cycling Ireland have brought in a more targeted approach to squads with the riders who show talent and commitment getting on to them and getting excellent coaching. Hence the big jump in performance especially from Juniors who have come through the System which is only really in place for 2.5 years.. Its no co-incidence that the good juniors are now beating a lot of the seniors and that's as it should be.

Its working so its money well spent and the squads are there for all riders to aspire to. I do agree with you that all riders need to be catered for and that's where the clubs and commissions come in. The commissions have a great opportunity to develop programmes. however the programmes need to be programmes that retain and develop the riders ability. Good coaching is the key and best value for money spent.

Agree with the bit about the good crop of juniors,but past youth commissions played a vital role in bringing them on also.As regards the HP youth squad,its not that i'm totally opposed to the concept,its just that its at the expense of the other 95% of the youngsters.Again you say thats where the commission comes in.Again i agree but without a budget???I remember back in 2009 we brought about 50 kids to the youth tour of Wales,and it still to this day is the best thing we ever done.Loads of them still around now and it gave them a quick lesson in comarardie etc.All that was knocked on the head.Ryan Mullen,Javan Nulty,Eoin Mc Carthy.Eddie Dunbar,David Mc Carthy,just some i remember from the trip.It was inclusive and not just for the few.They got chances that they cant get now.

Beasty

This is one of my issues here. The discussion seems heavily focussed on male road racing and I suspect there will be a preponderance of "roadies" there tomorrow. What about the other disciplines and indeed leisure cycling? For info I have received positive comments from both candidates in each of these areas

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

This is one of my issues here. The discussion seems heavily focussed on male road racing and I suspect there will be a preponderance of "roadies" there tomorrow. What about the other disciplines and indeed leisure cycling? For info I have received positive comments from both candidates in each of these areas

You're right in the sense that the fed is more or less road orientated.But thats just the way the cookie has crumbled if you get my meaning.Whether it be racing or leisure the vast majority of the members are road cyclists,and the background is road.In my experience some of the other disciplines in the past have been their own worst enemy.For years and years the off road sector either refused or couldnt be bothered to be represented on a youth commission.At Leinster level its the same.The last guy came in,sought out funding,got it,and was never seen again.So in that regard,its often these disciplines that dont emrace the system,rather than the other way around.

Beasty

Road racers make up less than 25% of the membership.

Yet again the Road Commission has not even submitted a report to the AGM - what sort of message is that sending out? Whatever has happened in the past, who "can't be bothered" now? (and the Off-Road Commission submitted a 20-page report this year )

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

Road racers make up less than 25% of the membership.

Yet again the Road Commission has not even submitted a report to the AGM - what sort of message is that sending out? Whatever has happened in the past, who "can't be bothered" now? (and the Off-Road Commission submitted a 20-page report this year )

Agreed on the report.No Youth report either.Reason being there is no commission in place in either sector.As for the cant be bothered bit,what i simply meant was that the off roaders seem reluctant to integrate in to committees with other sectors.They do seem to have an excellent working group though.As far as the 25% of the m/ship being road racers is concerned,i never said anything about racers.What i said was the vast majority are road riders.

Beasty

I had assumed there was still a Road Commission in place, but it is simply not operating as it should. I recall a similar situation last year, but am unaware of how this has come about.

The reason I mentioned the number of road racers was not to contradict your own statement (which I appreciated extended to all road cyclists), but to highlight the numbers involved in an aspect of cycling in Ireland that seems, to me at least, to take up a dispropotionate amount of resource and attention (and to be clear it's the area of cycling that I have shown most interest in personally over the past 3 years or so). I feel, at CI level, that leisure cyclists do not appear to get much out of their membership beyond insurance (which perhaps helps explain the high turnover of introductory members)

hammerheadjack

following the discussion with interest and dont want to sidetrack from the main topic, but feel I can add some first hand experience of the youth development situation at the moment. As the father of a rider who will be riding first year junior next year I would have to agree with Wav 1 and disagree with 12 sprocket that the narrow focus for youth is working. It is my belief that the focus of the 2020 squad is far too narrow. having attended many of the U16 races this year there are perhaps 12 riders out of all the starters (say 50 odd) who can stick the pace and are always there or thereabouts at the business end of the race. The split usually happens very quickly after the start, and this qroup of 12 or so race each other. It highlights a huge gulf in the U16 ranks. There are say 40 riders who need work at a provincial level to get them to the level of the 12 stronger guys, and then there are the 12 competitive riders ( I could name them for you) who are at a national development level. Out of these 12, there are I think only 5 on the 2020 talent team. The other 7 are left to fend for themselves. Despite this the magnificent 7 regularly took podium spots ahead of the talented guys and there really is nothing between them when you consider rates of development. I was told that the criteria to get on the 2020 development was to beat the encumbants. The encumbants remain however firmly encumbant. I cant for the life of me understand why these 12 riders cannot be developed together. How much extra would it cost? Does Brian Nugent even know the names of the seven who will not be invited to travel to learn track skills in Mallorca. Is there a potential track racer amongst these 7, I guess we may never know. To achieve the victories and performances I witnessed these riders pull off this year with nothing only their own determination to support them, should be enough to warrant their inclusion in any youth or junior development programme. They dont all have to travel, if the cost of that is an issue, but it would cost nothing to have them all attend training sessions in ireland at the very least. The narrow focus is whittling an already small pool of talented riders.