Greatest All-Ireland Hurling Final Ever?

marco_polo

Akrasia wrote: »

The final replay was an absolutely stunning showcase for the game of hurling. If we could get the Voyager probes back we would be putting a recording of this game onto the golden record so that aliens in a million year wil be able to enjoy the spectacle that was fought in Croke Park yesterday.

The talent in this clare team is, as Fitzy will say 'unreal' and the Cork team just played their hearts out. They never ever gave up and that's what made the game so great.

Next year's Munster championship will be something to look forward to.

As good as the clare team are (and they are very good) The game is very dynamic and Waterford, Limerick, Cork and Tipp are all great teams who have the potential to unleash themselves on the day. We're certainly looking at a golden age in inter county hurling.

100% this there are a few potentially unmerciful draws in the Munster hurling championsip for the teams that get drawn in the first round.

shockframe

A very good final and replay yes but not the best ever.

The 2009 and 2010 finals were some of the best sporting battles ever seen in Irish sport.2 teams near the top of their game.

The intensity in those finals will be very hard to match.Was absolutely incredible.

Mountainlad

To be honest, entertainment wise, I think yesterday kicked the **** out of both 2009 and 2010.

robbiezero

Mountainlad wrote: »

To be honest, entertainment wise, I think yesterday kicked the **** out of both 2009 and 2010.

Yesterday was hugely entertaining alright, helped by terrible defending. Give me 2009 and 2010 anytime though.

Lennonist

robbiezero wrote: »

Didn't mean that at all. I mean it was two teams that kinda came out of nowhere and stumbled into an All-Ireland, both by back door etc, both teams nowhere in the years leading up to this, so its hard to know just how good these two teams are.

Giants was the wrong word to use, but I meant two teams at the peak of their powers and at the top of the hurling tree i.e. Clare, Limerick, Offaly, Wexford in the second half of the 90's.

Over the next few years, this Clare team should be one of the "giants", I very much doubt Cork will be.

I disagree. This is a young Clare team that have won the last two U21 All Ireland's and won an All Ireland U21 in '09 as well, they have not come out of nowhere. For them to step up and win a senior All Ireland so soon took a huge effort. The Cork team that lost yesterday are largely a young team as well. This years Hurling championship was a new dawn and had a Final to match. The replay will be remembered in years to come as a particularly outstanding Final.

ShamoBuc

Mountainlad wrote: »

To be honest, entertainment wise, I think yesterday kicked the **** out of both 2009 and 2010.

Nail on head. Some people will see a player being allowed to run straight through the middle of a defence as a reason to think less of a game - not me. From a cork viewpoint I didn't like to see it at all - but you cannot say it wasn't entertaining. 40 scores in 70 odd mins - 8 of them goals, way cork stuck at it, came back level, Clare coming again etc all added to the entertainment value.
Greatest final? Not sure, the most recent game will always seem better in some way. But the 2 games had it all in my opinion. They were 2 fascinating games to see live and 2 of the best I have seen - up there with any other match I can think of.

Tombo2001

deadybai wrote: »

my top 5 finals are

1.Kilkenny v Galway drawn match 2012
2.Kilkenny v Tipp 2009
3.Cork v Galway 1990
4.Cork v Clare Replay 2013
5.Kilkenny v Tipp 2011

The reason why I chose the 2011 final is purely because it was Kilkennys 'sweet victory'. Also from a neutral perspective, I would regard the 2008 and 2011 finals the greatest ever performance by a single team in the final.

for me, 2009 and 2010 were the best I've seen, and I'd agree 2008 was the best single performance. In 2010 especially, you did get a sense as the teams walked around the pitch before the start of the game that these were two of the greatest teams to ever play the game. And Lar Corbett's goal from Noel McGrath's handpass was the best score I've seen. Unfortunately I couldn't go to either of this years games.

Great as the two matches were this year, for me they will always be tainted by the fact that I believe Dublin should have been in the final.

robbiezero

Lennonist wrote: »

I disagree. This is a young Clare team that have won the last two U21 All Ireland's and won an All Ireland U21 in '09 as well, they have not come out of nowhere. For them to step up and win a senior All Ireland so soon took a huge effort. The Cork team that lost yesterday are largely a young team as well. This years Hurling championship was a new dawn and had a Final to match. The replay will be remembered in years to come as a particularly outstanding Final.

They were certainly seen as an upcoming team, but not many would have given them a prayer this year especially after being beaten by Cork in Munster.
I will be surprised if Cork get anywhere near an All-Ireland over the next 5 years. Clare should be very near over the next few years..

Powerhouse

deadybai wrote: »

Gaa banter have put up a poll asking was yesterdays final the best ever. so far 71% think yes it was

Hard to imagine how anyone under 140 years old would be able to comment with any authority on the 'best ever' final.

Mountainlad

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Nail on head. Some people will see a player being allowed to run straight through the middle of a defence as a reason to think less of a game - not me. From a cork viewpoint I didn't like to see it at all - but you cannot say it wasn't entertaining. 40 scores in 70 odd mins - 8 of them goals, way cork stuck at it, came back level, Clare coming again etc all added to the entertainment value.
Greatest final? Not sure, the most recent game will always seem better in some way. But the 2 games had it all in my opinion. They were 2 fascinating games to see live and 2 of the best I have seen - up there with any other match I can think of.

Yeah it just depends on people's perspective. There was very poor defending on both sides, but if you were to bring a foreigner to a game then this would be the first I'd pick in a long time and the first out of any all-ireland final I've ever seen.

I think the game the last day, while it had a thrilling finish, wasn't that good. But this one really was.

It's all about entertainment for me, when I'm neutral at least, and goals really do transform games. Yesterday you literally weren't sure what would happen even at the end. And there was plenty of skill on show.

I agree with Duginan, McGrath's goal wa unbelievable, from the pickup to the finish. And plenty more examples besides.

Amprodude

robbiezero wrote: »

I will be surprised if Cork get anywhere near an All-Ireland over the next 5 years. Clare should be very near over the next few years..

Says a hopeful Tipp man right?

robbiezero

Amprodude wrote: »

Says a hopeful Tipp man right?

Yep. But I wouldn't mind seeing Cork do well, actually wanted them to win yesterday. I just think the team has big problems, but no more than ourselves I guess.

Limestone1

One_More_Mile wrote: »

It was a great game to watch but Cork backs were terrible- would KK in their pomp allow uncontested runs down the center? Not a chance. Terrible defence from cork. Cadogen, Rock O Sullivan etc.. would hardly have let O Donnelll have such a free ride

Unfortunately defensive brilliance is generally not as entertaining as seeing the net rattle !

sid waddell

deadybai wrote: »

my top 5 finals are

1.Kilkenny v Galway drawn match 2012
2.Kilkenny v Tipp 2009
3.Cork v Galway 1990
4.Cork v Clare Replay 2013
5.Kilkenny v Tipp 2011

The reason why I chose the 2011 final is purely because it was Kilkennys 'sweet victory'. Also from a neutral perspective, I would regard the 2008 and 2011 finals the greatest ever performance by a single team in the final.

Kilkenny-Galway 2012 would barely be in the top 20 I can think of. I thought it was a very average game and far, far below this year's standard.

Amprodude

robbiezero wrote: »

Yep. But I wouldn't mind seeing Cork do well, actually wanted them to win yesterday. I just think the team has big problems, but no more than ourselves I guess.

I agree, I think JBM got the very best out of what he had at his disposal. IMO I think the lack of competitive games in the League in Div2 is going to be a huge problem for Cork in 2014. We won't know what we have until the Championship begins and when we are up against the big guns. JBM will do the best he can with what he has but I hope he finds 1-2 special talents for next year. Realistically I couldn't see us back in a Final next year but I reckon we won't be too far away, qtr final or semi final spot possibly. Again nothing ever guaranteed in sport.

feargale

Gordon West wrote: »

Yes, a draw was a fair result but this match again highlights two problems that the GAA have to tackle urgently.

1: Timekeeping. The official on the sideline should keep the time. Clock to be stopped when play stops for frees, injuries, and other incidents. This will be fair to all sides and cut out gamesmanship and time wasting.
2: Place of free kick or puck. The American Football guys have the right idea here. The ref throws a yellow cloth on the ground and the play resumes from there. This will stop guys stealing yards and improving angles for frees
These two things would revolutionise our games for the better.

1. Add twice the time deliberately wasted.
2. For a free, place the ball back from the free spot by the same distance that has been stolen.
That should concentrate minds.

Akrasia

Limestone1 wrote: »

Unfortunately defensive brilliance is generally not as entertaining as seeing the net rattle !

There was some outstanding defense from Clare on Saturday. One of Cork's key strategies was to bypass the clare half back line and drop the ball into their full forwards. Every time they did this they looked dangerous but the clare defenders managed to beat the cork forwards to the ball most of the time. It was heart-stopping stuff.

The fact that there were so many goals does not indicate poor defending, The scores came because both teams were fully committed to attack. Clare have done this all season, we have been scoring 20 + points in almost every game.

It means we can't devote as many resources to defense so the other team can score highly too, but it also forces the other team to attack as they tend to be put on the back foot from early in the game.

sid waddell

There seems to be a view among some people that if there are a lot of goals the game is therefore of a lower standard. You saw it with reaction to the Dublin-Kerry match where the only thing some people could remark upon was that there was poor defending, rather than praising the great attacking play. I find it a bizarre view. It's the same type of view that if transferred to association football would prefer, say the 0-0 Milan-Juventus Champions League final of 2003 to the 3-3 Liverpool-Milan final of 2005.

You can have a great match without goals, (Cork-Clare 2005, Cork-Offaly 1999, Derry-Dublin 1993 etc) but goals make the really great matches. The 2009 KK-Tipp final was obviously a great match but the lack of goals meant it it was more tense and cat and mouse than the all-out excitement of Saturday, and that's also why I preferred the 2010 final which had goals to 2009.

shockframe

sid waddell wrote: »

There seems to be a view among some people that if there are a lot of goals the game is therefore of a lower standard. You saw it with reaction to the Dublin-Kerry match where the only thing some people could remark upon was that there was poor defending, rather than praising the great attacking play. I find it a bizarre view. It's the same type of view that if transferred to association football would prefer, say the 0-0 Milan-Juventus Champions League final of 2003 to the 3-3 Liverpool-Milan final of 2005.

You can have a great match without goals, (Cork-Clare 2005, Cork-Offaly 1999, Derry-Dublin 1993 etc) but goals make the really great matches. The 2009 KK-Tipp final was obviously a great match but the lack of goals meant it it was more tense and cat and mouse than the all-out excitement of Saturday, and that's also why I preferred the 2010 final which had goals to 2009.

But there was poor defending in the Dublin Kerry and Cork Clare games (Nash goals aside).There was also a lot more space something you didnt get in say tyrone/kerry in 2005 or Kilkenny-tipp in 2009-2010.

Some of the defending for Clare's goals was disastrous.Ran down the middle for at least 2 and badly caught in the air for the 3rd.That didnt happen as frequently in 09 or 10.

This isnt a great Cork side by their standards. Clare certainly are very good but not at their peak yet.If you had both sides reaching their prime like Kilkenny or Tipp did 3/4 years ago or tyrone and kerry in 2005 you could make a greater claim but for me nothing would top 2009 and 2010.

As regards the other sports you mentioned 0-0 draws wont be remembered fondly whatever the game was like.Also I would have thought that Istanbul would have been fondly recalled no matter who you follow in football.I didnt watch Dublin-Kerry live but the reaction to a good game like that was as over the top as a supposed bad Gaelic Football match.I would have st brigids-ballymun in the club final as my game of the year so far but each to their own I suppose.

wuzziwig

Coming at it as a Clare woman, it might not have been pretty hurlingwise but for total and utter, heart attack inducing, excitement it was up there with the best. Fair play to Cork, they never gave up. When they drew level a lot of us felt that, like so many other Clare teams in the past, we were going to fold but what a great bunch of young guys the Clare team are. They never lost their composure and drive. Shane O'Donnell is being lauded as a hero here in Clare but for me Conor McGrath is the true hero. His goal was stunning. It was exactly what Clare needed right at that moment. I think a lesser player would have taken his point but McGrath knew what he wanted (and what Clare needed) and he got it. You won't see many better goals than his.

I took the kids to the homecoming last night, there was an American couple standing beside us and we got chatting. They are here on holidays, had never seen a hurling game before and they were just stunned at the pace, athleticism and dogged determination displayed yesterday by both teams.

sid waddell

shockframe wrote: »

But there was poor defending in the Dublin Kerry and Cork Clare games (Nash goals aside).There was also a lot more space something you didnt get in say tyrone/kerry in 2005 or Kilkenny-tipp in 2009-2010.

Some of the defending for Clare's goals was disastrous.Ran down the middle for at least 2 and badly caught in the air for the 3rd.That didnt happen as frequently in 09 or 10.

This isnt a great Cork side by their standards. Clare certainly are very good but not at their peak yet.If you had both sides reaching their prime like Kilkenny or Tipp did 3/4 years ago or tyrone and kerry in 2005 you could make a greater claim but for me nothing would top 2009 and 2010.

As regards the other sports you mentioned 0-0 draws wont be remembered fondly whatever the game was like.Also I would have thought that Istanbul would have been fondly recalled no matter who you follow in football.I didnt watch Dublin-Kerry live but the reaction to a good game like that was as over the top as a supposed bad Gaelic Football match.I would have st brigids-ballymun in the club final as my game of the year so far but each to their own I suppose.

Sure you could make an argument that there was poor defending too in the Tyrone-Kerry matches. Kerry's first goal in 2005 was very poor from a Tyrone defensive point of view. Brian Dooher waltzed from his own 45 to score a point in 2008. The Tyrone goal in 2008 was farcical. Even for the Tyrone goal in 2005, Mulligan who is not a big man was allowed catch the ball at full forward and lay it off to Canavan. That shouldn't have happened.

Kerry's first two goals undoubtedly came from brilliant attacking play. Clearly Dublin did not have the type of blanket defensive cover that Donegal employ, but that's the price for playing an expansive free-flowing game which utilises the talents of the Dublin players to the full. But Kerry exposed Dublin's defence brilliantly. Dublin's defence was actually excellent after the third goal.

People moaned about massed defences, but then when goals are scored against a non-massed defence they moan too about it being poor defending. Dublin-Kerry was as good a game as I've seen, and the same goes for the two Clare-Cork games, particularly the replay. Incredible drama and a really great standard of hurling.

131spanner

Would you judge how "great" a match was by the skill shown on the day or by the spectacle and entertainment it made for those watching?

In terms of skill, the replay was a good match but not unreal if you know what I mean. Spells of dismal defending and a few odd unforced errors were here and there during the 70 minutes.

In terms of entertainment, I'd put that match down as one of the greatest finals we'll see. Of course me being from Clare that's biased as hell, but it was far from boring and it could have gone either way when Cork drew it back level.

Fair play to Cork for what was a great match, but the Banner has risen again

Ace2007

Gordon West wrote: »

Yes, a draw was a fair result but this match again highlights two problems that the GAA have to tackle urgently.

1: Timekeeping. The official on the sideline should keep the time. Clock to be stopped when play stops for frees, injuries, and other incidents. This will be fair to all sides and cut out gamesmanship and time wasting.

2: Place of free kick or puck. The American Football guys have the right idea here. The ref throws a yellow cloth on the ground and the play resumes from there. This will stop guys stealing yards and improving angles for frees.

These two things would revolutionise our games for the better.

Do you stop the clock every time the ball goes out of play?
The guys are amateurs, but yet what your introducing would mean them being twice as fit...