Former FF TD applies to join Sinn Fein

alastair

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The vital issue is the signal.

Oh , the signal is clear alright - "you look like a cheap date".

Cody Pomeray

Yes, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have that reputation as a cheap date. Well said.

alastair

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Yes, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have that reputation as a cheap date. Well said.

I think you've demonstrated you don't really know what you're trying to imply here.

Cody Pomeray

That our main political parties have a history of being impressionable and promiscuous when it comes to rich men. I'm not saying that is what is happening now with Fine Gael's admittedly surprising donations pattern, I am commenting on their previous form.

oscarBravo

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Sinn Féin is an all-Ireland organization, but if TDs donate to the party in the North, these are not recognized by SIPO. If money is loaned between the two personalities, this is pretty straight forward, since Northern SF have an office on the island of Ireland.

Is this speculation on your part, or is it an actual technique used by SF to blatantly circumvent SIPO rules?

FTA69

Godge wrote: »

No mortgage payment
No phone bill payment.
No electricity payment.
No life insurance or house insurance payment.
No gas bill payment.
No petrol station payment.
No back-to-school payments for his kids etc. etc,

How does the man survive on the street?

If I had £400 a week (€500) to spend on groceries in ASDA and Musgraves (where did he get the card) with all my other bills covered, I would be on the pig's back.

McGuinness lives in an ex-council house in Derry he probably purchased with right-to-buy years ago. He probably has pre-paid phones with both Sinn Féin and Stormont, something quite common with politicians and full-time employees of parties. I have one myself with work.

The hoops some people here are jumping through is gas like. "He must have a second account." etc etc. Like it or not he doesn't have biscuit tins of cash under the bed. Nor does he have a secret cache of gold secreted in Gerry Adams' beard. There are indeed wealthy people associated with Sinn Féin; McGuinness isn't one of them however. That's just the fact of the matter.

I dislike McGuinness' politics completely, but the notion that he is living an opulent lifestyle while claiming humility is just false. To be honest what's getting people's backs up here is the fact his ordinary lifestyle highlights the likes of Fianna Fáil's cronyism with helicopters, developers tents and multiple houses. (P O'Flynn.)

Cody Pomeray

oscarBravo wrote: »

Is this speculation on your part, or is it an actual technique used by SF to blatantly circumvent SIPO rules?

It's speculation, based on the fact that SF has two sets of accounting procedures . There would be other ways of effectively donating the money to the party, but this is the most obvious.

What you call circumvention, I call operating within the law.

Howard Juneau

FTA69 wrote: »

Godge wrote: »

McGuinness lives in an ex-council house in Derry he probably purchased with right-to-buy years ago. He probably has pre-paid phones with both Sinn Féin and Stormont, something quite common with politicians and full-time employees of parties. I have one myself with work.

The hoops some people here are jumping through is gas like. "He must have a second account." etc etc. Like it or not he doesn't have biscuit tins of cash under the bed. Nor does he have a secret cache of gold secreted in Gerry Adams' beard. There are indeed wealthy people associated with Sinn Féin; McGuinness isn't one of them however. That's just the fact of the matter.

I dislike McGuinness' politics completely, but the notion that he is living an opulent lifestyle while claiming humility is just false. To be honest what's getting people's backs up here is the fact his ordinary lifestyle highlights the likes of Fianna Fáil's cronyism with helicopters, developers tents and multiple houses. (P O'Flynn.)

I see a lot of probablys & fck all evidence

Crooked Jack

Howard Juneau wrote: »

I see a lot of probablys & fck all evidence

The evidence has already been presented, ie his published accounts, FTA69 is simply offering a possible explanation.
Zero evidence has been presented to support the notion that he is living an opulent lifestyle while pretending to be a principled man of the people.

FTA69

You can't prove a negative. It's impossible to "prove" McGuinness "doesn't" have loads of money. He has his bank statements published, he lives in a modest former council house in the Bogside. As I said, there are plenty of very wealthy people associated with the Provisionals but he isn't one of them. Adams probably has quite good money for his books (which are very popular in the states) but he isn't a landlord or a company director either for that matter. Why people feel the need to pretend McGuinness is some sort of secret millionaire is beyond me considering he's renowned within that movement for being a quiet religious pioneer.

Honestly like, I never thought I'd be defending McGuinness!

Banjo String

Howard Juneau wrote: »

I see a lot of probablys & fck all evidence

What an articulate, well thought out, reasoned rebuttal.

What evidence do you have to contradict the actual evidence presented, ie his bank statement, complete with signed confirmation from the branch manager from the strand road in Derry?

Godge

FTA69 wrote: »

You can't prove a negative. It's impossible to "prove" McGuinness "doesn't" have loads of money. He has his bank statements published, he lives in a modest former council house in the Bogside. As I said, there are plenty of very wealthy people associated with the Provisionals but he isn't one of them. Adams probably has quite good money for his books (which are very popular in the states) but he isn't a landlord or a company director either for that matter. Why people feel the need to pretend McGuinness is some sort of secret millionaire is beyond me considering he's renowned within that movement for being a quiet religious pioneer.

Honestly like, I never thought I'd be defending McGuinness!

Read my post again and stop trying to make up things I said. I never said that McGuinness has loads of money, neither did I say that McGuinness is a secret millionaire.

What I said, and I will keep saying is that his published accounts make no sense and are a load of rubbish. Yes, the money in from SF is small but all of the expenditure is supermarket shopping.

No gas bills, no electricity bills, no petrol bills, no car service bills, it was september, no back-to-school bills (maybe he doesn't have children) but I made the point that €500 a week for shopping bills is relatively well-off compared to the ordinary Joe Soap.

How he funds all the other stuff is a mystery which means he is not as transparent as he says he is.

That is all I said.

K-9

Mod:

I think we can drop the McGuinness stuff now as it is taking over the thread, thank you.

Cody Pomeray

Godge wrote: »

No gas bills, no electricity bills, no petrol bills, no car service bills, it was september, no back-to-school bills (maybe he doesn't have children) but I made the point that €500 a week for shopping bills is relatively well-off compared to the ordinary Joe Soap.

How he funds all the other stuff is a mystery which means he is not as transparent as he says he is.

You've been told that he has a credit card. There is a reference to a credit card direct debit on the statement, ATM withdrawals, and cheques.

I'm not intending to restart the debate here, I'm sure Godge has just 'accidentally' missed those items on the statement, and accidentally missed where this has already been pointed out to him/ her/ etc.

Back on topic, I'm sure there are more deflection attempts to come, and from Labour in particular. Whether they should be entertained is another matter.

round tower huntsman

that ff and labour members could feel at home with psf shows just far far down the counter-revolutionary road they've travelled. they are totally immeresed into the establishment of both crooked states on this island. they are becoming ff.

BuilderPlumber

Just thinking of Chris Andrews and Sinn Fein: are there some kind of movement on to make Sinn Fein more appealing to disgruntled Fianna Fail voters thus paving the way for a coalition?

In their current guise and lead by Gerry Adams, there is a sizeable amount of the population who would not touch them with a 40 foot poll no matter how bad the other parties are. It is true also there is a sizeable amount of ex Fianna Fail voters who are in political limbo.

With Andrews onboard, that would attract a sizeable number of ex Fianna Failers. The Andrews family also were never associated with all the corruption and wrongdoing in the Bertie era. Mary Lou also is of Fianna Fail stock too. So, I would not be a bit surprised that some closing the gap between the two is what is going on here.

maccored

I have to laugh at the idea of FF and SF joining forces. That is hilarious.

BuilderPlumber

maccored wrote: »

I have to laugh at the idea of FF and SF joining forces. That is hilarious.

FF & SF have a few major things in common: both market themselves as republican parties, both started off under the name Sinn Fein and both have (ideologywise anyway. The reality is often different) populist nationalist anti imperialist roots.

When it comes to the next general election, the big loser is going to be Labour. Most of the ministers I can't stand in the current government belong to this party and Ruari Quinn is probably the worst minister for education we have ever had along with Noel Davern. Fine Gael will hold their own, Fianna Fail, Sinn Fein and the Independents will gain. Choices for new government:

FG, Labour and Independents.
FF, SF.
FF, Labour, Independents.
FF and Independents.
FF, SF and Independents.

I do not think FF will deal with SF once Gerry Adams is leader. However, you could see Mary Lou, who was originally FF, take over in the next couple of years and Andrews, a high profile FFer, is there too. Suddenly, we have a mainstream, more moderate SF appealing to people who only a few years earlier only thought of Northern Ireland violence and the IRA when the very term was mentioned.

maccored

the one thing they do not have in common is the same support. If FF and SF joined together, most of SF's support would walk. now a coalition with SF as the major party would be a different story (and incredibly unlikely) but the idea that the two parties would join forces is, as I said, absolutely hilarious.

COYW

maccored wrote: »

I have to laugh at the idea of FF and SF joining forces. That is hilarious.

You can't see a FF/SF coalition ever?

SF are starting to move towards FF, i.e. to the centre, as each week passes. Last week, they started sowing the seeds for the removal of their policy on a tax on salaries over €100K. I know they argued that the story was incorrect later but this type of behavior is a carbon copy of how FG, FF & Labour soften the general public up for changes in policy.

maccored wrote: »

the one thing they do not have in common is the same support. If FF and SF joined together, most of SF's support would walk. now a coalition with SF as the major party would be a different story (and incredibly unlikely) but the idea that the two parties would join forces is, as I said, absolutely hilarious.

As you said, SF and FF share the same support. It doesn't really add up that someone would stop voting for SF just because they went into coalition with FF, if that individual was already a supporter of FF & SF. I would imagine that the voter would be happy to see two parties that they support enter government together.

In NI, they entered government with "the other side" and the support base has remained. I think SF and FF are very alike in terms of morality and character. SF have taken this hard-left stance over the past while to gain popularity but as I said on countless occasions before, I think that this is nothing more than a front. I think their actual brand of socialism is very much along the lines of Bertie's socialism.

raymon

I think FF are far too dishonest for SF to trust.

They would throw SF under the bus at the first opportunity. Be careful Sinn Fein.

COYW

raymon wrote: »

I think FF are far too dishonest for SF to trust.

They would throw SF under the bus at the first opportunity. Be careful Sinn Fein.

SF are no angels when it comes to pulling strokes too (eg : Wolfe toner, A.I.W. con, excessive expense claims, giving their IRA buddies jobs). I think both parties are made for each other in those terms.

SF would get killed by FF due to their lack of experience. I know they are in power in NI but it isn't really comparable to power down here. I think they would get exposed badly in government by the opposition, hung out to dry by FF, and they would bolt to try and save their own skin. They would probably try and play the 'victim' card like they always do, but the damage would be done by that stage. The DUP would be a far easier bunch to work with in comparison to FF or FG.

maccored

no - as i said the one they they DO NOT share is the same support. There is no love of FF in SF. Going by your thinking, theres more SF/FF supporters in SF than just SF supporters. I disagree.

In the north they were part of the peaceful solution - thats why they went into power with 'the other side'. there was no other option but war. Its not like that here.

COYW wrote: »

You can't see a FF/SF coalition ever?

SF are starting to move towards FF, i.e. to the centre, as each week passes. Last week, they started sowing the seeds for the removal of their policy on a tax on salaries over €100K. I know they argued that the story was incorrect later but this type of behavior is a carbon copy of how FG, FF & Labour soften the general public up for changes in policy.



As you said, SF and FF share the same support. It doesn't really add up that someone would stop voting for SF just because they went into coalition with FF, if that individual was already a supporter of FF & SF. I would imagine that the voter would be happy to see two parties that they support enter government together.

In NI, they entered government with "the other side" and the support base has remained. I think SF and FF are very alike in terms of morality and character. SF have taken this hard-left stance over the past while to gain popularity but as I said on countless occasions before, I think that this is nothing more than a front. I think their actual brand of socialism is very much along the lines of Bertie's socialism.

COYW

maccored wrote: »

no - as i said the one they they DO NOT share is the same support. There is no love of FF in SF. Going by your thinking, theres more SF/FF supporters in SF than just SF supporters. I disagree.

In the north they were part of the peaceful solution - thats why they went into power with 'the other side'. there was no other option but war. Its not like that here.

Sorry, misread that line regarding support. I still think SF and FF will buddy up as some sort of 'all singing, all dancing' republican outfit. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

michael999999

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

No it doesn't. SF TD's are paid the same by the Oireachtas as any other TD. That is fact, no matter what way you try and spin it.



Lol, can the average AIW worker afford to live in a mansion like Mary Lou McDonald or own multiple homes like Gerry Adams?

:rolleyes:

Maybe he has the same estate agent as beloved leader bertie ahern. He always had a house or three.

Banjo String

michael999999 wrote: »

Maybe he has the same estate agent as beloved leader bertie ahern. He always had a house or three.

But not one bank account.

raymon

COYW wrote: »

Sorry, misread that line regarding support. I still think SF and FF will buddy up as some sort of 'all singing, all dancing' republican outfit. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

That sounds like a sinister ghoulish monster of a thing.

The only problem is that FF are no longer republicans , I doubt if SF would see any common ground.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dev og jumps ship to SF too.

michael999999

Banjo String wrote: »

But not one bank account.

Plenty bag men to collect he's loot though!

Mr.Micro

raymon wrote: »

That sounds like a sinister ghoulish monster of a thing.

The only problem is that FF are no longer republicans , I doubt if SF would see any common ground.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dev og jumps ship to SF too.

I think you will find that FF are looking for the nostalgia factor as they have little else to offer. So align with hard line Republicians, such as SF to try and get a boost. FF not particular so long as it gets elected. Whatever cred SF may have will disappear very quickly, if it joins up with FF. A new party called Sinn a Fianna Fein,

BuilderPlumber

I think that while Gerry Adams is leader, there definitely won't be any chance of SF and FF joining forces. However, if Mary Lou was leader and more ex FFers like Chris Andrews joined, then they could go into coalition. True, I could never see them amalgamate as one party but definitely I could see a Mary Lou-lead SF do business with FF and go into coalition.

There is a saying: a week is a long time in politics. Well, then, 2 and a half years is an eternity in it! True, back in the early days of 2011, FF were the most hated party in Ireland. Now, they have been relegated into 3rd place and falling! Labour are especially unpopular and are my choice for most damaging influence in Ireland at present. Others will hate FG more. So, suddenly, doing business with FF does not sound all that bad anymore!

I would somehow predict that 50% of the 2016 vote will be divided almost equally by FF and FG. SF will be the 3rd largest party in the state and more difficult to ignore. They could receive perhaps almost 20% of the vote. Most of the rest would go to independents and Labour could end up with less than 10%. SF will be too big for FF to ignore (FF knows that FG will not share power with them and are unlikely to for the foreseeable) so there will be at the very least overtures.

However, FF's preferred source of coalition backup would be the legions of Mattie McGrath and Healy-Ray type of ex-FF indos.