Former FF TD applies to join Sinn Fein

BlutendeRabe

Former Dublin South East TD, Chris Andrews, has applied to join Sinn Fein and is seeking to run for the party in the Pembroke South Dock LEA in 2014.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/exfianna-fail-td-andrews-in-serious-discussions-to-run-for-sinn-fein-29555557.html

Andrews, in addition to being from a famous (and relatively clean) FF dyansty, was notable for the Twitter saga last August, which led to his resignation from FF.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/husband-unmasked-former-ff-td-chris-andrews-after-phantom-tweets-targeted-wife-26887866.html

Andrews has burned his bridges with FF and joining the Blueshirts would be unthinkable for him. In my opinion SF see him as a potential TD for Dublin Bay South, a constituency which would be very weak for SF otherwise.

Still though, I don't understand why he's joining now and his selection as a candidate should remain a matter for the local cummain. He made a number of attacks on the party during his anonymous foray into twitter and I really think he's just looking out for himself.

Tramps Like Us

Its a done deal, beyond "discussions".

And I agree with you, its a disgrace and should be left up to local cumainns to decide among themselves.


SF are not big on democracy, its a leadership driven party.

Shame on SF for taking people like Andrews who have done so much wrong.

rightwingdub

Ah but I thought Sinn Fein were different from the mainstream parties...lol

Banjo String

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

SF are not big on democracy, its a leadership driven party.

.

So they're just like the rest in that respect.

Ask any of the TDs and senators recently booted out of their respective parties for voting against the whip.

BlutendeRabe

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Its a done deal, beyond "discussions".

And I agree with you, its a disgrace and should be left up to local cumainns to decide among themselves.


SF are not big on democracy, its a leadership driven party.

Shame on SF for taking people like Andrews who have done so much wrong.

Yeah it should be left to the local cummain. I've no problem with him joining up but it really does seem like he's trying to guarentee himself a council seat at least.

SF are probably just looking at the fact that they'll definately get a seat in Pembroke South Dock and have a better chance in Dublin Bay South. He has a name in the area and he was narrowly defeated in 2011. I can't deny that advantage.

He won't the first to switch parties to SF this year. Two labour councillors in the midlands are planning on joining (one's applied already). There's also strong rumours about a Dublin Labour TD as well (though I'd say theyre just rumours).

COYW

FF lite (SF) and FF are becoming more and more aligned as each day passes.

I can see a few more jumping ship and joining the latest populist party, in the hope of getting a seat in the next Dail. If SF do manage to get in, they will be the next PDs. FF claim that they would not go into power with SF but that could easily change when power comes within the grasp of FF, as we all know. FF lite would go into power with anyone.

Mr.Micro

rightwingdub wrote: »

Ah but I thought Sinn Fein were different from the mainstream parties...lol

FF and ex FF types not fussy when it comes to getting into the Dail.

Tramps Like Us

He won't like only getting to take home the average wage though

GSF

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

He won't like only getting to take home the average wage though

On the plus side,the ink cartridge allowance is better

Phoebas

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Shame on SF for taking people like Andrews who have done so much wrong.

:eek:
My sarcasm detector must be broken.

crusher000

Politics for most politicans is a career not a service. Andrews is just trying to pro- long his career. The suits rule this Country and putting party tags on people is just a smoke screen for the elite running the country and making the mega bucks.

murphaph

Get a real job you bloody parasite Andrews. I have nothing but contempt for career politicians (ie, most of them). No notion of public service, just feathering their own nests in politics. Politics should be noble, with noble people in it, not full of egotists and sh!te talkers.

Hootanany

murphaph wrote: »

Get a real job you bloody parasite Andrews. I have nothing but contempt for career politicians (ie, most of them). No notion of public service, just feathering their own nests in politics. Politics should be noble, with noble people in it, not full of egotists and sh!te talkers.

^
This + 1000%

jalan8984

crusher000 wrote: »

Politics for most politicans is a career not a service. Andrews is just trying to pro- long his career. The suits rule this Country and putting party tags on people is just a smoke screen for the elite running the country and making the mega bucks.

Hardly feathering his nest now he'll be earning the average industrial wage if elected.

Sierra Oscar

jalan8984 wrote: »

Hardly feathering his nest now he'll be earning the average industrial wage if elected.

Ask any SF TD to show you their P60. They won't - because they cost the state the same as any other TD.

They give their money to the party, where there is an avenue to get it all back via 'expenses'. Big whoop-de-doo. That whole charade will probably come to an end soon now that SIPO have launched a formal investigation into the matter.

COYW wrote: »

FF lite would go into power with anyone.

I agree, you can see at the moment that they are altering their policies to ensure that they can be compatible with a future coalition partner.

However I think SF will end up going into power with FG before FF. The dropping of their wealth tax just this week, which has been central to SF policy for decades, is aimed at making the party more attractable to FG. They will do anything to get into power for 2016.

BlutendeRabe

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I agree, you can see at the moment that they are altering their policies to ensure that they can be compatible with a future coalition partner.

However I think SF will end up going into power with FG before FF. The dropping of their wealth tax just this week, which has been central to SF policy for decades, is aimed at making the party more attractable to FG. They will do anything to get into power for 2016.

I'm a former party member but there is absolutely no hope of FG and SF going into coalition. They're ideologically incompatible and they really hate each other.
SF/FF would only happen if SF was the senior coalition party. Say what you want about the party but they're not stupid and they can takethe long view on things. They know well that junior coalition partners often wind up as little more than a mudguard for the senior party.

SF havn't ditched the wealth tax policy. Thats a matter for the Ard Fheis. They havn't included in their budget submission due to criticism from tax experts that it wasn't costed.
There's a bit of a difference compared to your claim that they've dropped the policy.

Tramps Like Us

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Ask any SF TD to show you their P60. They won't - because they cost the state the same as any other TD.

They give their money to the party, where there is an avenue to get it all back via 'expenses'. Big whoop-de-doo. That whole charade will probably come to an end soon now that SIPO have launched a formal investigation into the matter.



I agree, you can see at the moment that they are altering their policies to ensure that they can be compatible with a future coalition partner.

However I think SF will end up going into power with FG before FF. The dropping of their wealth tax just this week, which has been central to SF policy for decades, is aimed at making the party more attractable to FG. They will do anything to get into power for 2016.

They did not drop their wealth tax, they just did not include the revenue it would raise in their "adjustment" of 2.5 billion. This is because they cannot get it costed properly. Instead whatever revenue it raises is ringfenced for job creation and SFs "youth guarantee". Don't be a bare faced liar like your pals in FF.

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23379

Tramps Like Us

BlutendeRabe wrote: »

I'm a former party member but there is absolutely no hope of FG and SF going into coalition. They're ideologically incompatible and they really hate each other.
SF/FF would only happen if SF was the senior coalition party. Say what you want about the party but they're not stupid and they can takethe long view on things. They know well that junior coalition partners often wind up as little more than a mudguard for the senior party.

SF havn't ditched the wealth tax policy. Thats a matter for the Ard Fheis. They havn't included in their budget submission due to criticism from tax experts that it wasn't costed.
There's a bit of a difference compared to your claim that they've dropped the policy.

They have included it in their submission

Sierra Oscar

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

They did not drop their wealth tax, they just did not include the revenue it would raise in their "adjustment" of 2.5 billion. This is because they cannot get it costed properly. Instead whatever revenue it raises is ringfenced for job creation and SFs "youth guarantee". Don't be a bare faced liar like your pals in FF.

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23379

I don't consider An Phoblacht, the SF propaganda literature, to be a reliable source.

You are correct in saying that the official line is that the tax has only been dropped for this budget submission, after it was exposed by a tax expert that SF were completely wrong about how much such a tax would raise. SF have said that they remain 'committed' to the idea of a wealth tax - but face the facts, it is not part of the SF budget submission. The budget submission is essentially the most important policy document published annually by a political party.

All the same, I expect it to be quietly dropped from SF policy from here onwards. I will bump this thread again next year when it does not feature in the 2015 SF budget submission.

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

They have included it in their submission

So you have seen the submission before SF have even finished putting it together? You do realize it has not been published yet, right? Do you work for Sinn Féin or something?

You can't really claim a tax forms part of the budget submission if it is not included as a source to raise revenue. If you do that you are essentially saying that the tax is not workable, but you still like the idea in theory.

Tramps Like Us

Right, so SFs newspaper is not a good source for SF policy. lol.

It will be in the submission, you'll see.

Sierra Oscar

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Right, so SFs newspaper is not a good source for SF policy. lol.

It will be in the submission, you'll see.

It is not exactly an impartial source. I wouldn't consider a FF newsletter to be impartial, I would find that somewhat naive to think that. lol.

Yes, we will see. If it is not included as a revenue raising measure, and is merely cited as something that SF would like to pursue, then that cannot be considered as being part of the submission.

Judging by the reaction, there must be holy war going on in SF at the moment after Pearse and his advisers tried to drop the tax! I guess that would explain the backtracking and Pearse coming out and saying that he is still in favor of wealth tax, even though it won't be included as a revenue raising measure in his own budget submission.

Tramps Like Us

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It is not exactly an impartial source. I wouldn't consider a FF newsletter to be impartial, I would find that somewhat naive to think that. lol.

Yes, we will see. If it is not included as a revenue raising measure, and is merely cited as something that SF would like to pursue, then that cannot be considered as being part of the submission.

Judging by the reaction, there must be holy war going on in SF at the moment after Pearse and his advisers tried to drop the tax! I guess that would explain the backtracking and Pearse coming out and saying that he is still in favor of wealth tax, even though it won't be included as a revenue raising measure in his own budget submission.

lol, look at you backtrack.
It is included as a revenue raising measure, the money raised is for job creation.

If you really dont think it will be in the submission, how about you put your money were your mouth is? 50 quid to a charity the winner nominates - or are you... other things... besides a liar?

Scofflaw

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

lol, look at you backtrack.
It is included as a revenue raising measure, the money raised is for job creation.

If you really dont think it will be in the submission, how about you put your money were your mouth is? 50 quid to a charity the winner nominates - or are you... other things... besides a liar?

No objections to a combative style of posting, but drop the personal stuff - and if you haven't read the Forum Charter, please do so before hitting Reply.

moderately,
Scofflaw

View

BlutendeRabe wrote: »

I'm a former party member but there is absolutely no hope of FG and SF going into coalition. They're ideologically incompatible and they really hate each other.

They "really hated" the DUP too, yet - surprise, surprise - there they are "in coalition" with them.

Once SF could get Ministerial salaries out of Stormont, a lot of "principles" went out the window.

Even the most brass-necked gombeen politician in the Republic would blush if they did something like that.

Banjo String

View wrote: »

They "really hated" the DUP too, yet - surprise, surprise - there they are "in coalition" with them.

Once SF could get Ministerial salaries out of Stormont, a lot of "principles" went out the window.

.

Lol.

Yeah, the whole peace process thing probably escaped you I presume :cool:

Also, it works both ways. What was the DUPs reason to go into the coalition with SF?

Cody Pomeray

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Ask any SF TD to show you their P60. They won't - because they cost the state the same as any other TD.

They give their money to the party, where there is an avenue to get it all back via 'expenses'. Big whoop-de-doo.

Well, yeah... because the fact stated stands.

SF TDs are paid in accordance with the current average industrial wage. Their net incomes are theirs to do as they wish.

The key point is that they get to to experience life more similarly to an AIW worker than any other TDs.

Sierra Oscar

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Well, yeah... because the fact stated stands.

No it doesn't. SF TD's are paid the same by the Oireachtas as any other TD. That is fact, no matter what way you try and spin it.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The key point is that they get to to experience life more similarly to an AIW worker than any other TDs.

Lol, can the average AIW worker afford to live in a mansion like Mary Lou McDonald or own multiple homes like Gerry Adams?

:rolleyes:

Podgerz

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

However I think SF will end up going into power with FG before FF. The dropping of their wealth tax just this week, which has been central to SF policy for decades, is aimed at making the party more attractable to FG. They will do anything to get into power for 2016.

Deluded; not a hope will this happen. I will bet you any amount FG and SF will not go into power together. The vein of republicanism would band SF and FF together, name me anything that FG and SF would agree on. Your afore mentioned wealth tax has not been dropped by SF as stated here

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23379

nuac

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

No it doesn't. SF TD's are paid the same by the Oireachtas as any other TD. That is fact, no matter what way you try and spin it.



Lol, can the average AIW worker afford to live in a mansion like Mary Lou McDonald or own multiple homes like Gerry Adams?

:rolleyes:

Does Adams still have that house in Donegal?

Can really stretch that AIW?

COYW

View wrote: »

They "really hated" the DUP too, yet - surprise, surprise - there they are "in coalition" with them.

Once SF could get Ministerial salaries out of Stormont, a lot of "principles" went out the window.

Even the most brass-necked gombeen politician in the Republic would blush if they did something like that.

Their anti-cronyism stance disappeared too, with the hiring of their IRA terrorist buddies into highly paid roles. Recall all the SF dummy spitting that took place when the SPAD bill came to pass.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Well, yeah... because the fact stated stands.

SF TDs are paid in accordance with the current average industrial wage. Their net incomes are theirs to do as they wish.

The key point is that they get to to experience life more similarly to an AIW worker than any other TDs.

I'm disappointed to see you falling for this dross, Cody. SF politicians cost the tax payer just as much as every other politician, probably more considering their expense claims which tend to be on the high side.

nuac wrote: »

Does Adams still have that house in Donegal?

Can really stretch that AIW?

He has a place in Donegal, Belfast and Dublin, I'd expect. All on the AIW. :rolleyes:

SF claims that people on the AIW can't afford to pay the property tax, yet Adams can afford to pay it on multiple properties.

Cody Pomeray

COYW wrote: »

I'm disappointed to see you falling for this dross, Cody. SF politicians cost the tax payer just as much as every other politician, probably more considering their expense claims which tend to be on the high side.

Who has actually claimed that SF politicians cost the tax payer less than every other politician?

I said that SF politicians can appreciate life on the AIW more closely than other politicians. I don't particularly care whether the balance of their income goes to the old cats home or Crumlin quite honestly. The question for me is whether they have a closer awareness of normal workers' real life financial struggles than others.

COYW

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I said that SF politicians can appreciate life on the AIW more closely than other politicians.

I would argue that the TDs who are truly on the hard left are far more in tune with those out there who are struggling. SF are left wing by choice. Once a sniff of power comes there way, they will happily move to the centre.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Who has actually claimed that SF politicians cost the tax payer less than every other politician?

Countless Shiners who post here trot out the AIW line. Padraig MacLochlainn was on VB trying the exact same trick, not so long ago.

Cookie_Monster

COYW wrote: »

He has a place in Donegal, Belfast and Dublin, I'd expect. All on the AIW. :rolleyes:

SF claims that people on the AIW can't afford to pay the property tax, yet Adams can afford to pay it on multiple properties.

you are assuming that's his only income though. he also has a lot of published works earning him income...

(I don't believe for a second they only get the AIW but aside from that there are still other income sources to make up their total income)

Sierra Oscar

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Who has actually claimed that SF politicians cost the tax payer less than every other politician?

Where is the evidence that SF TD's only take home the AIW? All we have to go on is the word of officials from the SF Press Office.

Why don't they TD's publish their P60's to put the matter to rest?

COYW

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you are assuming that's his only income though. he also has a lot of published works earning him income...

(I don't believe for a second they only get the AIW but aside from that there are still other income sources to make up their total income)

SF claim to live off the AIW. "Live off" relates to total net income. By that logic his Dail take home plus income from his published works must be equal to the AIW.

Just like you, I don't believe the above for a second. FF at their worst wouldn't have tried to pull that one.

Cody Pomeray

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Where is the evidence that SF TD's only take home the AIW? All we have to go on is the word of officials from the SF Press Office.

Why don't they TD's publish their P60's to put the matter to rest?

I don't believe there is any arrangement for political parties to be paid directly from what is owed to a member of the Oireachtas from his or her salary. Presumably SF TDs' P60s would show them receiving the full amount. I can only presume the appropriate balance above AIW is forwarded onto the party by a standing order, or some more tax efficient arrangement.

But to suggest SF only invented the story is quite a conspiracy theory. Feel free to go ahead with it.

COYW

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I don't believe there is any arrangement for political parties to be paid directly from what is owed to a member of the Oireachtas from his or her salary. Presumably SF TDs' P60s would show them receiving the full amount.

I agree with you.

SF TD's salary = FF TD's salary = FG TD's salary = every other TD's salary, as per their P60s.

Andrews is of the 'CJH style' FF clan, which was the root of the Bertie & Cowen administrations. SF moves that little bit closer to FF. How long before some old time Shiners get the hump with this?

Sierra Oscar

COYW wrote: »

How long before some old time Shiners get the hump with this?

From what I am hearing, there is a lot of disquiet being expressed in certain quarters in SF about this whole affair

I see that Sinn Féin have accepted Andrews membership application. It is their decision to make, but I can't understand why they would want anything to do with him.

Here is just a selection of the tweets he made under that bogus account whereby he savaged Sinn Féin:

Tweets from @brianformerff, later identified as ex-TD Chris Andrews:

Friday, Mar 23, 3.12pm @MaryLouMcDonald Hard to take SF/Adams lecturing Bertie on being corrupt after all they have done!! Keep out of it. #mahon

Thursday, Mar 29, 11am [twitter handle deleted] I agree with a lot of your views but given what SF has done to innocent people its a bit much listening to you pontificate.

11.01am [twitter handle deleted] Was it not corrupt to bury mother of 10 Jean Mc Conville. Is that acceptable to you. Selective outrage i thinks!!

11.03am [twitter handle deleted] What about the ink cartridges! was that okay? Hard to take SF being moralistic!! Its not their thing!

1.43pm [twitter handle deleted] knows all about killing given the amount of people Sinn Féin Reps killed over the years. #jeanmcconville

Wednesday, Apr 18, 12.39pm [twitter handle deleted] Ordinary working class people who have guns stuck in their face by your friends. they are the ones terrorised."

I think it is quite clear that Chris Andrews did not expect to be caught out with the 'Twittergate' saga, and full on expected to run for FF in the locals in 2014 and then for the Dáil thereafter. From what I heard, he was openly telling people of such plans while he was posting that bile on twitter.

He could have reapplied to join Fianna Fáil after they threw him out, but he knew he wouldnt get on a ticket ahead of Cllr Jim O'Callaghan - who will likely get elected and hold a seat in Dublin Bay South for some time. There certainly aren't two FF seats in Dublin Bay South for the foreseeable future, I guess Chris Andrews thinks he has a better chance of returning to the Dáil on a SF ticket.

It is interesting that he is calling himself a "Sinn Féin Politican" on Twitter for two reasons. Firstly, he is not an elected representative - despite what he may think of himself - and secondly he has been in no way selected to represent Sinn Féin at any level within the party. He may be in for a rude awakening at the Sinn Féin selection conventions!

nuac

He will get a nomination.

Despite their protestations SF are still a top down stalinist party.

No matter who the local members select, the Árd-Cóirle will stall, twist and turn as they did for decommisioning and other issues until the anointed one is selected.

Mr.Micro

nuac wrote: »

He will get a nomination.

Despite their protestations SF are still a top down stalinist party.

No matter who the local members select, the Árd-Cóirle will stall, twist and turn as they did for decommisioning and other issues until the anointed one is selected.

You have to admit, SF must be desperate to take the likes of Andrews on board. We know his motives, as in pure self interest FF style.

Faith2013

Turncoat and traitor. Good bye..

Faith2013

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You have to admit, SF must be desperate to take the likes of Andrews on board. We know his motives, as in pure self interest FF style.

He will be kept in the outer circle of SF.. He might get elected. But he will never amount to anything in SF as he is far down the line for promotion.


Also It will be interesting to see him take the haircut to his salary.

Sierra Oscar

Faith2013 wrote: »

He will be kept in the outer circle of SF.. He might get elected. But he will never amount to anything in SF as he is far down the line for promotion.


Also It will be interesting to see him take the haircut to his salary.

I wouldn't be so sure. The leadership of the party made sure that his application was pushed through. The announcement was carefully planned by advisers to coincide with the SF think in. The media announcement from Chris, which blatantly wasn't his language for anyone that knew him, was clearly drafted by the press office.

Chris Andrews has been placed right in the heart of SF. HQ will ensure he is placed on the ticket, despite the opinions of the local membership. It is quite worrying for SF supporters that their leadership are taking such drastic measures. The SF leadership and advisers clearly recognise that they are not appealing to the middle class core vote, and now they are pulling in former Dáil members to salvage things. Reject former Dáil members it seems too.

raymon

Now that Fianna Fail are no longer republicans, will OCuiv jump ship too.

Here he is in Lithuania recently with Sinn Fein

http://www.herald.ie/news/four-tds-a...-29541582.html

bmaxi

Mr.Micro wrote: »

You have to admit, SF must be desperate to take the likes of Andrews on board. We know his motives, as in pure self interest FF style.

Racked my brains but couldn't come up with any political party where this is not the case.
I listened to FF's John "€15,000 is not a big deal" Browne from Wexford, commenting on a possible coalition with SF. "If it's for the good of the country", he said, I nearly vomited there and then. The good of the country never entered into FF's agenda when they were selling us down the river but now, if it means getting back into power, they'll sign a pact with the devil, "for the good of the country". Stomach churning stuff.

Howard Juneau

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you are assuming that's his only income though. he also has a lot of published works earning him income...

(I don't believe for a second they only get the AIW but aside from that there are still other income sources to make up their total income)

Didn't he write "Harry Potter & the prisoner of Long Kesh"

murphaph

Faith2013 wrote: »

Also It will be interesting to see him take the haircut to his salary.

If he actually gets elected the people deserve him but assuming he does, who's gonna make him hand over his salary for deduction by Comrade Adams?

Anyway, that AIW sh!te is implausible given the lifestyles some SF TDs enjoy. They get it back from the party under the table, to think anything else is naive.

Henlars67

murphaph wrote: »

If he actually gets elected the people deserve him but assuming he does, who's gonna make him hand over his salary for deduction by Comrade Adams?

Anyway, that AIW sh!te is implausible given the lifestyles some SF TDs enjoy. They get it back from the party under the table, to think anything else is naive.

what lifestyles would that be?

I see my local TD's accounts every year and I know exactly what he gets for himself.

It's the exact same as what his PA gets. I see hers as well.

oscarBravo

murphaph wrote: »

If he actually gets elected the people deserve him...

That's a truism about all elected politicians that we're taking our sweet time about understanding.

nuac

Henlars67 wrote: »

what lifestyles would that be?

I see my local TD's accounts every year and I know exactly what he gets for himself.

It's the exact same as what his PA gets. I see hers as well.

Where can those accounts be seen?

View

Henlars67 wrote: »

I see my local TD's accounts every year and I know exactly what he gets for himself.

It's the exact same as what his PA gets. I see hers as well.

Unless his PA is in receipt of a TD's salary, those accounts are "in error".

All TDs get the same salary from the State. What they do with it after that is up to them.

Given the high cost of getting elected, I'd imagine most of them put a large amount of their salaries into their "Re-elect me" fund. That though is an investment on their part and certainly isn't some kind of act of charity as certain TDs like to give the impression.