Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

where the thrill in shooting people wheres no repercussion for you being shot at?

I enjoy clay pigeon shooting. I get a thrill from it. Would it be more thrilling if the clays were shooting back...?

Excuse me, I've got an idea for a new business....

Sad Professor

expectationlost wrote: »

where the thrill in shooting people wheres no repercussion for you being shot at?

It doesn't stop people playing video games where the repercussions for being shot and killed are little more than a minor inconvenience: being sent back to the last checkpoint.

It's probably fair to say that most guests in Westworld spend a few days whoring and murdering their way around before going back to the real world. As I said before, they aren't there long enough to get bored of it or notice how empty the whole experience is. It's only the hardcore types like Harris that go looking for a challenge.

RobbingBandit

Harris has found somethings hiding in the game like the scalped map of the maze after 30 years. I also wonder seeing as he was off reservation has he bribed some of the park workers to turn a blind eye.

expectationlost

Sad Professor wrote: »

It doesn't stop people playing video games where the repercussions for being shot and killed are little more than a minor inconvenience: being sent back to the last checkpoint.

It's probably fair to say that most guests in Westworld spend a few days whoring and murdering their way around before going back to the real world. As I said before, they aren't there long enough to get bored of it or notice how empty the whole experience is. It's only the hardcore types like Harris that go looking for a challenge.

that is a repercussion though.

what challenge does he have other then looking for the greater game,yes that it the point of his arc but he says he loves shootouts but he can shoot away at the hosts as mere target practice

expectationlost

Deleted User wrote: »

I enjoy clay pigeon shooting. I get a thrill from it. Would it be more thrilling if the clays were shooting back...?

Excuse me, I've got an idea for a new business....

the clay pigeons don't currently have guns, the hosts do.

I think it would be fairer to contrast it to paint balling/laser tag etc

Mc Love

Do no-one pick up on the fact that Harris said he was born there? Could he be Fords son? I reckon the small boy was probably Ford as a young boy.

wandatowell

That English fella is very annoying.

Arghus

I also enjoyed episode 2 a great deal.

Perhaps, it didn't reach the heights of the climax of the pilot, but as an exercise in world building it did an exemplary job - giving you enough so that you felt a bit more grounded and satisfied, but still keeping newer and larger mysteries in your field of vision, but just out of reach. I don't know if anyone else is viewing the show like this, but, I think that for all it's genre-bending Westworld is at it's most effective while operating as horror - Thandie Newton's unintentional characters foray into the "real" world was a deeply disturbing couple of minutes and the best part of the episode.

There were a few bum notes - Why would that, seemingly decent guy, go to Westworld with a man who is so obviously a douchebag? Also, I am totally over that English guy they have cast as the head story imaginer, or whatever. No more of him, [lease.

Roar

wandatowell wrote: »

That English fella is very annoying.

His little meltdown in front of the Indian Chief was terribly bad. He's just so poor.

On the Man in Black -

I'm convinced he's the first ever host that was made. In episode 1 Hopkins said Dolores was the second, and was over 30 years old. So I think Harris is the first, and has become sentient, and is looking for the exit of the park so he can meet his maker, and escape into real life. And I think Hopkins is helping him, leaving him clues, giving him invulnerability to weapons like a guest, telling his staff to ignore him as he continues his quest.

Thargor

Spectacular pilot, HBO really are the masters. I'm still thinking about it 24 hours after watching it, the hosts are ultra creepy, great acting all round apart from the useless English guy.

Lovely Bloke

Reckon the English guy is a robot with his aggression dialed up.

Cina

Roar wrote: »

His little meltdown in front of the Indian Chief was terribly bad. He's just so poor.

On the Man in Black -

I'm convinced he's the first ever host that was made. In episode 1 Hopkins said Dolores was the second, and was over 30 years old. So I think Harris is the first, and has become sentient, and is looking for the exit of the park so he can meet his maker, and escape into real life. And I think Hopkins is helping him, leaving him clues, giving him invulnerability to weapons like a guest, telling his staff to ignore him as he continues his quest.

it's an interesting theory but if that is the case..

I don't think the staff know, because we clearly saw them watching him in the last episode and calling him a guest.

gazzer

They are VERY fond of saying "F'CK" in this show

silverharp

one thing I find odd about how the park works is that the guests are immune to being shot , you think for realism that if they are shot they have to leave the scene for a time. Watching it makes the shootout scenes kind of boring.

AlmightyCushion

silverharp wrote: »

one thing I find odd about how the park works is that the guests are immune to being shot , you think for realism that if they are shot they have to leave the scene for a time. Watching it makes the shootout scenes kind of boring.

Have we seen a guest get shot apart from Ed Harris? Maybe they do have to take a time out if shot, or the shots hurt like hell/ temporarily stun you but leave no long lasting damage. Ed Harris has been going there for 30 years so could have built up some level of resistance to it, or he's paid extra for a god level package that makes you immune to the effects of the weapon.

ManOfMystery

Straight from Jonathan Nolan's mouth:

"We thought a lot about this. In the original film, the guns won’t operate guest on guest, but we felt like the guests would want to have a more visceral experience here. So when they’re shot it has sort of the impact. They’re called simunitions. The U.S. military trains with rounds like the ones we’re talking about. But there’s a bit of an impact, a bit of a sting. So it’s not entirely consequence-free for the guests."

Sad Professor

While I think the realism/challenge factor increases the deeper into the wilderness you go, I don't think the park should be thought of purely in video game terms with the guests as gamers. So far it's been mostly described as a holiday destination, a fact reinforced with terms such as "guest" and "host", so the focus is less on the challenge than the experience (which is increasingly the case with video games anyway). In that sense I think the show can be read in part as a critique of how repressed, workaholic westerners often behave in low-cost holiday resorts.

Someone mentioned earlier that they couldn't understand why a decent guy like William (the new guest in 1x02) was doing with a douchebag, but that really rang true to me. I've been on holidays with guys like that and it's how I discovered that they were douchebags. People can behave very differently outside their usual work/social environment. We have a tendency to celebrate people letting lose like that as if it's their real selves being revealed, but as Hopkins points out that's not what these experiences should be about.

It's a very smart show and seems to have a lot to say about modern entertainment and leisure activities and how they are too often outlets for frustration instead of avenues for self improvement.

MOH

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Harris has found somethings hiding in the game like the scalped map of the maze after 30 years. I also wonder seeing as he was off reservation has he bribed some of the park workers to turn a blind eye.

Looked like he was about to scalp Thandie Newton in her nightmare/memory. Wonder how many years he's spent scalping how many hosts looking for the right one with the map. I assume the fact he's allowed do anything is more down to how much he's paid them over the years as probably their best customer, rather than bribery.

Mc Love wrote: »

Do no-one pick up on the fact that Harris said he was born there? Could he be Fords son? I reckon the small boy was probably Ford as a young boy.

He said, "you might almost say I was born here". I didn't take it he meant literally born there.


Just on the whole 30 years thing from ep 1. Didn't they say something like "there hasn't been an incident of a host hurting a human in over 30 years". I assumed that meant in the 30+ years it's been open, there's never been such an incident.
Though it's ambiguous, and a lot of people seem to think it means something happened 30 years ago.

ManOfMystery

Sad Professor wrote: »

While I think the realism/challenge factor increases the deeper into the wilderness you go, I don't think the park should be thought of purely in video game terms with the guests as gamers. So far it's been mostly described as a holiday destination, a fact reinforced with terms such as "guest" and "host", so the focus is less on the challenge than the experience (which is increasingly the case with video games anyway). In that sense I think the show can be read in part as a critique of how repressed, workaholic westerners often behave in low-cost holiday resorts.

I've been trying to think of the park as like a video game of sorts with a Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 and so on - all increasing in terms of the visceral experience and intensity of what's going on. Much like how anyone can jump into 1-1 of Mario and have fun, but you can't immediately jump into the final level without dying quickly unless you're experienced. The MIB knows of the existence of a special level, and is trying to find it as he's bound to have experienced every other level going in his 30yrs there and craves the challenge.

But then I thought it's more like all the video games and VR games ever made, rolled into one. You have your RPG, your shoot-em-up, your fighting game, and so on. The Park is whatever you want it to be. For some, the instant pick-up-and-put down of a shooting game like COD can be realised through a duel outside the saloon, for others the long and slow exploration of the park is akin to playing a well thought out RPG. And as such, the park will be a short, intense and explosive experience for some and more of a leisurely holiday destination for others.

MOH wrote: »

He said, "you might almost say I was born here". I didn't take it he meant literally born there.

Nor me.

It would make no sense for starters, he's clearly a man in his 60s at least yet has been coming there for 30yrs. I took it as meaning he discovered this side of himself where he can let loose and do whatever he wants, essentially revealing his true nature. That part of him was 'born' so to speak.

Hyzepher

There were more hints that Bernard (the programmer guy) is a host. When he was in bed with Dolores and talking about memories, he made a comment about what hosts do and she asked him if that what he does also.

Cina

gazzer wrote: »

They are VERY fond of saying "F'CK" in this show

yeah it feels like it's the only plausible reason for having the terrible English guy in it.

expectationlost

so is there some already occuring (pre Ford memory code) self realised host underworld of which the girl is one and thats what the men in black is looking for?

gazzer

gazzer wrote: »

They are VERY fond of saying "F'CK" in this show

Its really not out of place considering the theme of the show. In fact for a show that regularly shows full frontal nudity it would actually feel out of place if the old F word didnt get used now and again.


Has anyone had any thoughts on any possible link between Delores' name and the name of the corporation backing the park, DELOS?

flangemeistro

I'm also guessing that Ed Harris is a host because when Delores was being questioned she was asked if she would ever hurt a living thing and she said no.

So why would herself and her man friend try to hurt Ed Harris if he's a living thing? IE a guest?

Also I'm not happy with the way the hosts get wounded but the guests don't, supposedly the hosts are made so life-like from the ligaments and tendons to the skin and finger nails, so what type of bullets and knives are they using that will penetrate the hosts skin but not the guests skin?
That's really not believable.

Cina

Hyzepher wrote: »

There were more hints that Bernard (the programmer guy) is a host. When he was in bed with Dolores and talking about memories, he made a comment about what hosts do and she asked him if that what he does also.

That never happened?

He was in bed with the Swedish wan, Theresa. Dolores is the main character.

Dair76

flangemeistro wrote: »

I'm also guessing that Ed Harris is a host because when Delores was being questioned she was asked if she would ever hurt a living thing and she said no.

In the same scene, she was also asked if she would ever lie, to which she also said "No". And then she is seen squashing the fly, so the answer to both was really "Yes", even if Dolores herself doesn't realise herself capable of it.

ManOfMystery

flangemeistro wrote: »

Also I'm not happy with the way the hosts get wounded but the guests don't, supposedly the hosts are made so life-like from the ligaments and tendons to the skin and finger nails, so what type of bullets and knives are they using that will penetrate the hosts skin but not the guests skin?
That's really not believable.

The entire premise isn't really believable. It's actually easier to accept they are using smart weapons which are rendered inert when fired at certain targets than to accept the existence of a park full of synthetic beings who are indistinguishable from humans.

But it's TV, so just enjoy the ride.

yabadabado

flangemeistro wrote: »

I'm also guessing that Ed Harris is a host because when Delores was being questioned she was asked if she would ever hurt a living thing and she said no.

So why would herself and her man friend try to hurt Ed Harris if he's a living thing? IE a guest?

Also I'm not happy with the way the hosts get wounded but the guests don't, supposedly the hosts are made so life-like from the ligaments and tendons to the skin and finger nails, so what type of bullets and knives are they using that will penetrate the hosts skin but not the guests skin?
That's really not believable.

ManOfMystery

I have a theory that ....

Westworld is not on Earth

... that I'm finding hard to shake because it makes so much sense.

- Reference to 'decompression' by one of the characters (space travel? underwater travel?)
- How could any corporation lay claim to so much vast land for recreational use? Especially if there's other parks besides Westworld?
- Nolan has referenced 'terraforming' being used to form the landscape in the park
- In the pilot one of the characters mentions 'when do you get to rotate home again?' and another talks about getting leave, as if this isn't a workplace you can simply walk in and out of.
- If set off Earth, the park is free from a myriad of legal and ethical restrictions relating to treatment of AIs
- The name WestWorld takes on an entire new meaning. It literally is another world.

Not to mention this globe in the park sublevels. Those don't look like Earth continents.

https://i0.wp.com/media2.slashfilm.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/ZZ5C4D8E82-360x341.jpg

pixelburp

flangemeistro wrote: »

I'm also guessing that Ed Harris is a host because when Delores was being questioned she was asked if she would ever hurt a living thing and she said no.

So why would herself and her man friend try to hurt Ed Harris if he's a living thing? IE a guest?

Also I'm not happy with the way the hosts get wounded but the guests don't, supposedly the hosts are made so life-like from the ligaments and tendons to the skin and finger nails, so what type of bullets and knives are they using that will penetrate the hosts skin but not the guests skin?
That's really not believable.

Well we haven't seen any attacks on Guests with knives, so presumably they work just fine; but it's an odd nitpick given the technology on display is so advanced, where artificial, robotic life exists that's indistinguishable from the organic version - I'm sure guns / bullets that can discriminate targets is a trivial matter. In small doses its great, too much and it's just annoying.


Excellent second episode that did more world-building than the first, giving us a taste of how guests actually arrive in the resort. My only quibble is how the script frequently resorts to deliberately ambiguous or withholding dialogue, all for the sake of keeping the audience in the dark, speculating like crazy.