Old IRA compared to PIRA

Hagar the Nice.

getzls wrote: »

Where's your proof of all this collusion?

It is thought, about 30 Republicans were killed by Loyalists.

The collusion must not have been up to much.

Again, show the proof. And not a few alleged instances.

A child could quite easily search online for collusion but as you seem to be having bother pulling you're head from beneath the sand then I'll do the spadework for you.
Btw,a wee footnote,when David Cameron even states it then you haven't got a leg to stand on,when a top British soldier admits collusion then you're point is null and void.

http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/category/14/Collusion

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2955941.stm

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/08/british-state-collusion-with-loyalist-death-squads-in-northern-ireland/

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/sf31398.htm

wazky

getzls wrote: »

It is thought, about 30 Republicans were killed by Loyalists.

It is thought, you should do some research and not just throw around random numbers.

Hagar the Nice.

Tuco88 wrote: »

If you think the "old IRA" were any different than the IRA of the 60/70/80s you are just kidding yourself, The situation was different, but there was nothing romantic about the "Old IRA" ... just as ruthless.

My Grandfather used to run messages for the "Old IRA" he was very young at the time. His two older brothers were very involved with the IRA, Shoots fired over the coffin and the like, and the eldest brother even had an IRA pension. Both were at the ambush at kilmichael.

There household/local area near Bantry, was harassed constantly by the Brits/Tans. Hate is probably too kind of a word to use.

Later my Grandfather went to London for work, My Grandmother was there also during the Blitz, and she had some stories to tell. My Grandfather was forced into conscription during the war, but obviously he would not wear the "khaki" he and lots of other Irish lad's went on a hunger strike, Ended up with a 63 day Jail term in Leeds prison later to be deported.

I personally think the Bombings in England were wrong that's obvious. If the IRA killed 2 BS in a shopping centre and 10 civilians along with it, hardly worried them to the least.They got 2 soldiers the message was clear it was good enough... for the rest it was a case of TS.

I do accept the IRA played a very controversial physiological/Economical war in England to great effect. As stated before all it needed was a phone call. They needed to be taken seriously, And as well stated before the UK didn't care much once it was all going on in the North.

I am not one of those moral high-ground assholes, I take it like it is.

Will Scotland leave the Union? Confidentially id say No, Cash is king...

Will N.Ireland ever be re-united? Not in my life time or anytime soon IMHO but I would love to see it, as time goes on it's just getting more difficult. At present the vast of majority people in N.Ireland are happy they way they are, and I don't argue with that...

Very good points made in this post,I agree with many of them,as for Scotland well many of our youngsters will vote YES and I hope and pray our day will come,we should never have to beg from England for anything,as for a United Ireland,with any luck it will also be free of the shackles that have been cast around its ankles for way too long.

Fratton Fred

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

Very good points made in this post,I agree with many of them,as for Scotland well many of our youngsters will vote YES and I hope and pray our day will come,we should never have to beg from England for anything,as for a United Ireland,with any luck it will also be free of the shackles that have been cast around its ankles for way too long.

Scotland begs for nothing, that is such a disingenuous statement.

Tuco88

Scotland could do very will on it's own like Norway, It's just taking that big step into the dark its probably to much and is understandable.

The only romantic heroes I could think of is the like of Wolf Tone, Parnell and Dwyer etc... And for the Scots the likes of Robert the Bruce at bannockburn : )

One of the sadist times in Irish history for me, Is when the fight for a free Ireland ended up as a religious sectarian war.

Religion is the trump card in most war's it seems.

Hagar the Nice.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Scotland begs for nothing, that is such a disingenuous statement.

So where in Scotland do you reside if I may ask?
Are you as I imagine one of David Cameron's poodles?
The link below shows the reason why we need to beg.

http://www.oilofscotland.org/

Hagar the Nice.

Tuco88 wrote: »

Scotland could do very will on it's own like Norway, It's just taking that big step into the dark its probably to much and is understandable.

The only romantic heroes I could think of is the like of Wolf Tone, Parnell and Dwyer etc... And for the Scots the likes of Robert the Bruce at bannockburn : )

One of the sadist times in Irish history for me, Is when the fight for a free Ireland ended up as a religious sectarian war.
Religion is the trump card in most war's it seems.

Norway is doing extremely well although you may require a bank loan if you wish to go out for a drink or ten,jeez even buying a cola will set you back around £4/5.

Santa Cruz

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When the majority of people in northern Ireland want to join the south, there will be a referendum, until then, everything else is irrelevant.

Maybe the people in the south should have a say as well. You might be surprised at the result

Hagar the Nice.

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Maybe the people in the south should have a say as well. You might be surprised at the result

Are you saying that many voters in Eire would reject a UI?

Tuco88

Is that not in the GFA? that both England, Eire, and N.Ire have to agree... So If N.Ireland goes ahead, England's goes ahead and Ireland rejects the offer, We are left with a right stew to say the least...

The only reason Ireland would refuse the North is if we started to believe that "We Can't afford" story.

If anything we would gain, Tourist , More Tax's, Greater exports...

It would never be the case of just handing over the key's, It would have to be a slow process county, by county even...

getzls

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Yeah because there was a chance they'd get shot back at. They were far more comfortable shooting innocent people going about their business







"There's none so blind as those who will not see."

I know about these cases.
Still does not prove in anyway large scale collusion.

The IRA/ Sinn Fein seem to claim that most killings were down to collusion.:rolleyes:

wazky

getzls wrote: »

I know about these cases.
Still does not prove in anyway large scale collusion.

The IRA/ Sinn Fein seem to claim that most killings were down to collusion.:rolleyes:

There has been ample evidence provided in links above your post regarding collusion.

Click on the blue words and all will be revealed, if your finding that difficult.

getzls

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

A child could quite easily search online for collusion but as you seem to be having bother pulling you're head from beneath the sand then I'll do the spadework for you.
Btw,a wee footnote,when David Cameron even states it then you haven't got a leg to stand on,when a top British soldier admits collusion then you're point is null and void.

http://www.britisharmykillings.org.uk/category/14/Collusion

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2955941.stm

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/08/british-state-collusion-with-loyalist-death-squads-in-northern-ireland/

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/sf31398.htm

I opened your first link and that was enough for me.

Karl Winn. Yeah he really is impartial.

He is an avowed IRA lover.

As your other links? I won't even bother.:cool:

Crooked Jack

getzls wrote: »

I opened your first link and that was enough for me.

Karl Winn. Yeah he really is impartial.

He is an avowed IRA lover.

As your other links? I won't even bother.:cool:

Just as well you didn't bother with the other links. BBC and CAIN are renowned Provo lovers

Fratton Fred

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

So where in Scotland do you reside if I may ask?
Are you as I imagine one of David Cameron's poodles?
The link below shows the reason why we need to beg.

http://www.oilofscotland.org/

Oh Christ, you're the SNPs wet dream come true.

Scotland doesn't beg for anything, all income goes in to Westminster (where, per capita, the Scottish have better representation than the rest of the UK) and distributed from there and, per capita, Scotland receives more than anywhere else in the UK.

Out of curiosity, who bailed out your two banks when they went tits up? Because that cost significantly more than a few years worth of oil revenue.

Hagar the Nice.

getzls wrote: »

I opened your first link and that was enough for me.

Karl Winn. Yeah he really is impartial.

He is an avowed IRA lover.

As your other links? I won't even bother.:cool:

Tbh,I'm not the least bit surprised as it proves you only read what you want to read,then again that's your prerogative.
Sadly,I went to You Tube to fetch an excellent documentary from the BBC which I saw,it showed two former soldiers who took part with the UVF in the killing of an innocent young man,they admitted they were involved and were kicked out of the army,then again I may be lying about the story,you'll never know will you?

Hagar the Nice.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh Christ, you're the SNPs wet dream come true.

Scotland doesn't beg for anything, all income goes in to Westminster (where, per capita, the Scottish have better representation than the rest of the UK) and distributed from there and, per capita, Scotland receives more than anywhere else in the UK.

Out of curiosity, who bailed out your two banks when they went tits up? Because that cost significantly more than a few years worth of oil revenue.

Have you ever thought about taking up a job as 'fool time comedian'?
You really take the biscuit with the statement you just made,fool time,you are fooling nobody but yourself.
We have bailed out your country on countless occasions whether it be illegal wars,help fund your new rail link,help build London,a city which has more projects than Birmingham,Liverpool,Manchester,Glasgow and Edinburgh put together.
An old saying we have suits you to a T,'Awa and bile yer heid.'

Fratton Fred

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

Have you ever thought about taking up a job as 'fool time comedian'?
You really take the biscuit with the statement you just made,fool time,you are fooling nobody but yourself.
We have bailed out your country on countless occasions whether it be illegal wars,help fund your new rail link,help build London,a city which has more projects than Birmingham,Liverpool,Manchester,Glasgow and Edinburgh put together.
An old saying we have suits you to a T,'Awa and bile yer heid.'

Illegal war? The one started as a personal crusade...by a Scottish prime minister, whose policies and those of his Scottish finance minister then bankrupt the country!

The union started with England bailing out Scotland and it is still happening today!

Good luck with your £12bn of oil, it should almost cover your welfare bill.

Hagar the Nice.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Illegal war? The one started as a personal crusade...by a Scottish prime minister, whose policies and those of his Scottish finance minister then bankrupt the country!

The union started with England bailing out Scotland and it is still happening today!

Good luck with your £12bn of oil, it should almost cover your welfare bill.

Amazed you are still up at this time of night,do schools in England start after 9 am?

Hannibal

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh Christ, you're the SNPs wet dream come true.

Scotland doesn't beg for anything, all income goes in to Westminster (where, per capita, the Scottish have better representation than the rest of the UK) and distributed from there and, per capita, Scotland receives more than anywhere else in the UK.

Out of curiosity, who bailed out your two banks when they went tits up? Because that cost significantly more than a few years worth of oil revenue.

You've obviously never set foot in Glasgow as I'm sure every native would disagree with that statement, the state of deprivation in that city is unbelievable.

thomur

Boombastic wrote: »

Difference between the IRA and PIRA??

One was fighting for a cause, the others are just thugs who make a lot of money off drugs and weapons but pretend not to

Best comment of the lot. My Grandparents fought for the old IRA in Clare but the ones now are sc*m drugdealers.

Fratton Fred

Hannibal wrote: »

You've obviously never set foot in Glasgow as I'm sure every native would disagree with that statement, the state of deprivation in that city is unbelievable.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990

There's the figures.

Crooked Jack

thomur wrote: »

Best comment of the lot. My Grandparents fought for the old IRA in Clare but the ones now are sc*m drugdealers.

It's pretty clear from the title that this thread is about comparing the "old" IRA and "P" IRA. Not dissident crowds.
If your grandfather saw fit to fight for his country in 1919 I wonder how he would have reacted had he lived in Belfast or Derry in 1969.
That's what you have to ask yourself.

Madam

I really don't know what the rest of the UK is going to do without Scots to run it when we are eventually free of Westminster(apart from the few who just can't stand the thought and maybe jump ship):)

Madam

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990

There's the figures.

Not a word there that if North sea oil hadn't been discovered when it was - England would have been bankrupt.

Interesting reading here: http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7408-labour-party-lied-over-true-worth-of-north-sea-oil-admits-former-chancellor

Tuco88

If Scotland did leave the Union, It would be something major to witness in our lifetime. I think it's only starting to sink in how big of a deal it is now until recently. I mean it would be core shattering to the whole British Image and history, It also leaves the Unionist thing at a dead end?

Fratton Fred

Madam wrote: »

Not a word there that if North sea oil hadn't been discovered when it was - England would have been bankrupt.

Interesting reading here: http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7408-labour-party-lied-over-true-worth-of-north-sea-oil-admits-former-chancellor

You mean the UK, surely.

Basing an argument for independence solely on oil is a bit thin though, don't you think?

Fratton Fred

Madam wrote: »

I really don't know what the rest of the UK is going to do without Scots to run it when we are eventually free of Westminster(apart from the few who just can't stand the thought and maybe jump ship):)

What will it do without the likes of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and George Galloway?

Throw a big party I expect!

Hagar the Nice.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You mean the UK, surely.

Basing an argument for independence solely on oil is a bit thin though, don't you think?

Farming industry,whisky,technology,water,(which will in the years ahead be exported to England) aerospace,buses,renewable energy,chemicals,I could go on and on but I'm a wee bit hungry,I need to nip out for some fish n chips,oh, we also import fish too,and a wee can of Irn Bru to wash it down,did I say we export Irn Bru too the noo.

Fratton Fred

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

Farming industry,whisky,technology,water,(which will in the years ahead be exported to England) aerospace,buses,renewable energy,chemicals,I could go on and on but I'm a wee bit hungry,I need to nip out for some fish n chips,oh, we also import fish too,and a wee can of Irn Bru to wash it down,did I say we export Irn Bru too the noo.

You forgot banking and education.

Scotland has plenty of industry, no one would deny that.