Old IRA compared to PIRA

Hagar the Nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mc13fBlhOg

Hagar the Nice.

Psst,Mr Gibson hails from New York.

Fratton Fred

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

Wrong I'm not Scottish at all,the reason I'm concerned is simplistic,what did England over hope to achieve by taking Ireland?
I'll put it another way,why did England invade Ireland,Scotland,Wales,Spain,India,Pakistan,America,and so forth,was it for them to teach the world its culture,its language,its glorious history or its brutality?
Did you know that only 22 countries throughout the world haven't been invaded by Britain,you do now.

I thought you said you knew Scottish history inside out, maybe you could explain when it was that England invaded Scotland?

Fratton Fred

jalan8984 wrote: »

Not wanting to get into a pointless debate with you as I have to be up in 6 hours, I'd suggest that you have a read through this thread again and others along the same topic, open a book on the subject and perhaps open your mind if that's possible.

When I find the answer, should I tell you, because you obviously can't answer my question.

Mr_Spaceman

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The situation at the present time is, the brits took a hiding and didn't see any future in holding on to such a bigoted statlet.
It was and still is in certain areas in the statlet a cancer that is still eating away on the brit establishment, and a public sore of what they created. Life has moved on for the majority, they are looking forward to a bright future. It is only the supporters of the extreme loyalists and the last of the brit rump that is on here that can't accept the defeat of the loyalist statlet. Move on whingeing about the past will not bring it back. The future is out there for you bigots, give your kids, and grankids a chance, do not prolong their torture.

Loosen off those coiled, crazed, outdated chips on your shoulders... you're poisoning yourself.

You need help. Seriously.

Hannibal

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Occupy? How?

The country belongs to the people, the majority wish to remain in the UK, how is that an occupation?

Has there been a border poll to assess whether the majority want to remain as part of the UK? the British are very reluctant to even consider this part of the GFA.

Four out of the six counties have catholic/nationalist majorities. Armagh, Derry, Fermanagh, Tyrone being the four with Antrim and Down with the protestant/unionist majority.

Out of the five cities in the north, four have substantial catholic/nationalist majorities. These are Armagh, Belfast, Derry, Newry with only Lisburn being a protestant/unionist majority.

Taking the union flag off Belfast city hall was a major symbolic event and in the short term future (within 2 elections) there will be a SF/SDLP majority within Stormont aswell.

The £10bn per year deficit figure that's paraded about by unionists to say the South can't afford the North includes costs solely associates with the admin of the British state including England, Scotland and Wales. These figures include contributions to the Ministry of Defence budget, Bank of England debt, maintenance of the Northern Ireland office, museums and railway lines that operate solely in Britain.

The figures also don't include taxes generated by British multinational companies operating in NI which is estimated at being in the £5bn or £6bn bracket. The British government won't open the books to allow a proper examination and discussion on the economics of Irish unity. Partition has disastrous effects especially in border regions on both sides where businesses have for example to struggle through simple things like operating several mobile phones due to roaming costs and also working through two different currencies.

Boombastic

Difference between the IRA and PIRA??

One was fighting for a cause, the others are just thugs who make a lot of money off drugs and weapons but pretend not to

Karl Stein

Boombastic wrote: »

the others are just thugs who make a lot of money off drugs and weapons but pretend not to

You should let this BA expert know that they were brought to stalemate by a bunch of drug dealers.

An internal British army document examining 37 years of deployment in Northern Ireland contains the claim by one expert that it failed to defeat the IRA.

It describes the IRA as "a professional, dedicated, highly skilled and resilient force", while loyalist paramilitaries and other republican groups are described as "little more than a collection of gangsters".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/6276416.stm

Boombastic

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

You should let this BA expert know that they were brought to stalemate by a bunch of drug dealers.

I was referring more to those eejits around post the Good Friday agreement, Alan Ryan et al..that style themselves on the IRA

Karl Stein

Boombastic wrote: »

I was referring more to those eejits around post the Good Friday agreement, Alan Ryan et al..that style themselves on the IRA

That's the ICBINTIRA

'I Can't Believe It's Not The IRA'

Fratton Fred

Hannibal wrote: »

Has there been a border poll to assess whether the majority want to remain as part of the UK? the British are very reluctant to even consider this part of the GFA.

Four out of the six counties have catholic/nationalist majorities. Armagh, Derry, Fermanagh, Tyrone being the four with Antrim and Down with the protestant/unionist majority.

Out of the five cities in the north, four have substantial catholic/nationalist majorities. These are Armagh, Belfast, Derry, Newry with only Lisburn being a protestant/unionist majority.

Taking the union flag off Belfast city hall was a major symbolic event and in the short term future (within 2 elections) there will be a SF/SDLP majority within Stormont aswell.

The £10bn per year deficit figure that's paraded about by unionists to say the South can't afford the North includes costs solely associates with the admin of the British state including England, Scotland and Wales. These figures include contributions to the Ministry of Defence budget, Bank of England debt, maintenance of the Northern Ireland office, museums and railway lines that operate solely in Britain.

The figures also don't include taxes generated by British multinational companies operating in NI which is estimated at being in the £5bn or £6bn bracket. The British government won't open the books to allow a proper examination and discussion on the economics of Irish unity. Partition has disastrous effects especially in border regions on both sides where businesses have for example to struggle through simple things like operating several mobile phones due to roaming costs and also working through two different currencies.

When the majority of people in northern Ireland want to join the south, there will be a referendum, until then, everything else is irrelevant.

Hagar the Nice.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought you said you knew Scottish history inside out, maybe you could explain when it was that England invaded Scotland?

England invaded Scotland on countless occasions,too often for having a wild guess,on many occasions Scotland invaded the north of England,but Scotland found there were traitors in Edinburgh willing to take the English silver,hence the reason we have Britain.
The forthcoming referendum on Independance on September 18th next year will be very close,too close to call right now despite the Tory rag The Scotsman having a poll saying 59% will vote to stay in the union,take it from me,that poll is utter bs.

Fratton Fred

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

England invaded Scotland on countless occasions,too often for having a wild guess,on many occasions Scotland invaded the north of England,but Scotland found there were traitors in Edinburgh willing to take the English silver,hence the reason we have Britain.
The forthcoming referendum on Independance on September 18th next year will be very close,too close to call right now despite the Tory rag The Scotsman having a poll saying 59% will vote to stay in the union,take it from me,that poll is utter bs.

Yep, you sure know your Scottish history alright.

You do realise that Braveheart was pretty much a work of fiction don't you?

FTA69

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You do realise that Braveheart was pretty much a work of fiction don't you?

You've just shattered my entire political outlook.

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

You've just shattered my entire political outlook.

In fairness to the film makers, they did get his name right.

FTA69

Hold on a second now, are you seriously telling me he wasn't riding the Queen of France? You need to learn your history son.

Hagar the Nice.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yep, you sure know your Scottish history alright.

You do realise that Braveheart was pretty much a work of fiction don't you?

You do realise sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Hannibal

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When the majority of people in northern Ireland want to join the south, there will be a referendum, until then, everything else is irrelevant.

How will they know there's a majority without ever holding a referendum on it? The British and unionists agreed to it under the GFA now they're running from it. They won't entertain it at the moment because when it's called the British in the interests of democracy will have to put all the facts on what they make and take out of NI on the table in black and white and it's the full and frank discussion that they're running from.

Everything else in my post is irrelevent to you because you know it makes sense and can't even respond to it.

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

Hold on a second now, are you seriously telling me he wasn't riding the Queen of France? You need to learn your history son.

Of course he was, she fell in love with his kilt!

(she was four when Wallace was executed and the Scots didn't wear kilts until the 16th century.)

Fratton Fred

Hannibal wrote: »

How will they know there's a majority without ever holding a referendum on it? The British and unionists agreed to it under the GFA now they're running from it. They won't entertain it at the moment because when it's called the British in the interests of democracy will have to put all the facts on what they make and take out of NI on the table in black and white and it's the full and frank discussion that they're running from.

Everything else in my post is irrelevent to you because you know it makes sense and can't even respond to it.

So that's why Sinn Fein are demanding a referendum is it?

And yes, the rest of it is irrelevant. When the majority of people in northern Ireland want unification, it will happen. Not individual towns or cities, the whole country.

It doesn't make any difference if it does or doesn't make sense to you or I, it isn't our decision and will involve a great many factors.

Hagar the Nice.

1564 to be precise.

Hagar the Nice.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So that's why Sinn Fein are demanding a referendum is it?

And yes, the rest of it is irrelevant. When the majority of people in northern Ireland want unification, it will happen. Not individual towns or cities, the whole country.

It doesn't make any difference if it does or doesn't make sense to you or I, it isn't our decision and will involve a great many factors.

There is,and always will be just two factors,yes/no.

Fratton Fred

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

There is,and always will be just two factors,yes/no.

Mrs Murphy, who works for the civil service and has health issues but comes from a nationalist background may disagree.

checkyabadself

They don`t make them like they used to. Back in my day......

timthumbni

Crooked Jack wrote: »

And yet some claim theirs was a sectarian campaign. hard to keep up with the anti-republican logic sometimes

I would love to see that up,on the boards behind beardy adams and marty garfunkel at the next SF ard fheis.

"Not sectarian as we killed more Catholics then the British Army and RUC combined" lol

Crooked Jack

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So that's why Sinn Fein are demanding a referendum is it?

And yes, the rest of it is irrelevant. When the majority of people in northern Ireland want unification, it will happen. Not individual towns or cities, the whole country.

It doesn't make any difference if it does or doesn't make sense to you or I, it isn't our decision and will involve a great many factors.

Of course. you wouldnt want to do something stupid like, i dunno, partition the "country." That would be idiotic and lead to an endless cycle of...oh

getzls

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

Fair enough,so please tell me what you think of the UDA and the collusion with the U.K. and of the innocent people killed by them,do you love them?

Where's your proof of all this collusion?

It is thought, about 30 Republicans were killed by Loyalists.

The collusion must not have been up to much.

Again, show the proof. And not a few alleged instances.

getzls

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

The Scotsman having a poll saying 59% will vote to stay in the union,take it from me,that poll is utter bs.

I would say that is close, the vote will be to stay in the UK

A lot of younger people will vote to leave but that will not be enough.

Karl Stein

getzls wrote: »

It is thought, about 30 Republicans were killed by Loyalists. The collusion must not have been up to much.

Yeah because there was a chance they'd get shot back at. They were far more comfortable shooting innocent people going about their business

Again, show the proof. And not a few alleged instances.

Joint membership of the UDA (which had objectives incompatible with those of HMG) and the UDR, became widespread, and at the same time the rate of UDR weapons losses greatly increased. Subsequently a number of UDR members with traces in other subversive organisations have come to note.

The current policy on the discharge from the UDR of men who are involved with the UDA or similar organisations was established in late 1972 and is quoted in full at Annex B. In the period November 1972 to 25 July 1973, 73 men have been discharged for this reason

cain. Subversion In the UDR

The Glenanne Gang

The Glenanne gang was a loose alliance of Northern Irish loyalist extremists who carried out sectarian attacks in the 1970s against the Irish Catholic and Irish nationalist community [...] The gang included soldiers of the British Army, its Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR), the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), the Mid-Ulster Brigade of the illegal paramilitary Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and some Ulster Defence Association (UDA) members. Former members have alleged it was commanded by British Military Intelligence and/or RUC Special Branch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenanne_gang

"There's none so blind as those who will not see."

Tuco88

If you think the "old IRA" were any different than the IRA of the 60/70/80s you are just kidding yourself, The situation was different, but there was nothing romantic about the "Old IRA" ... just as ruthless.

My Grandfather used to run messages for the "Old IRA" he was very young at the time. His two older brothers were very involved with the IRA, Shoots fired over the coffin and the like, and the eldest brother even had an IRA pension. Both were at the ambush at kilmichael.

There household/local area near Bantry, was harassed constantly by the Brits/Tans. Hate is probably too kind of a word to use.

Later my Grandfather went to London for work, My Grandmother was there also during the Blitz, and she had some stories to tell. My Grandfather was forced into conscription during the war, but obviously he would not wear the "khaki" he and lots of other Irish lad's went on a hunger strike, Ended up with a 63 day Jail term in Leeds prison later to be deported.

I personally think the Bombings in England were wrong that's obvious. If the IRA killed 2 BS in a shopping centre and 10 civilians along with it, hardly worried them to the least.They got 2 soldiers the message was clear it was good enough... for the rest it was a case of TS.

I do accept the IRA played a very controversial physiological/Economical war in England to great effect. As stated before all it needed was a phone call. They needed to be taken seriously, And as well stated before the UK didn't care much once it was all going on in the North.

I am not one of those moral high-ground assholes, I take it like it is.

Will Scotland leave the Union? Confidentially id say No, Cash is king...

Will N.Ireland ever be re-united? Not in my life time or anytime soon IMHO but I would love to see it, as time goes on it's just getting more difficult. At present the vast of majority people in N.Ireland are happy they way they are, and I don't argue with that...