SYRIA WAR MEGATHREAD - Mod Note First Post

Jonny7

MonaPizza wrote: »

Obama wants to invade and destroy Syria (ala Iraq).

"But sir we have the military capability to level that country overnight"

"no no, we must waste years and let them cross multiple red lines and then hesitate some more... no one must suspect our evil plan.. to destroy Syria!! muuhahahaaaa"

donegal__road

Ron Paul speech from June 2012

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1soDiUMeFY

eimerom

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Scrap Scrap Scrap.

Do you want your go Syria?

obama is a big chicken

seanie_c

Jonny7 wrote: »

"But sir we have the military capability to level that country overnight"

"no no, we must waste years and let them cross multiple red lines and then hesitate some more... no one must suspect our evil plan.. to destroy Syria!! muuhahahaaaa"

Well, isn't it funny that John Kerry reports to Israeli PM and chicken hawk Netanyahu after meeting with Russian foreign minister Lavrov.

Just to clarify, it is the Neoconservatives and Israeli lobbies that would be quite happy to see Syria destroyed.
The Israeli lobbies are pushing hard for US to attack even when it will hurt US interests in the region.

Senile John McCain and Pedophile Lindsey Graham being the biggest supporters of military action, is clear evidence of what the Israelis really want.

Praise Yahweh, the Irish are protecting the Gas/Oil fields of Golan Heights.
Alan Shatter is a good man, redirecting money for Gardai into the military budget so we can send Irish men/women to protect Israel.

And of course, buy weapons from the Israelis!
Austerity? Ah Shure...Alan knows what he's doing.

Jonny7

seanie_c wrote: »

Well, isn't it funny that John Kerry reports to Israeli PM and chicken hawk Netanyahu after meeting with Russian foreign minister Lavrov.

John Kerry also has the support of 20+ surrounding Arab nations on the issue.

In fact you'll find few instances in history where the Israelis, Arabs, US, Europe, and even Muslim extremists find themselves literally on the "same side" re Assad.

Just to clarify, it is the Neoconservatives and Israeli lobbies that would be quite happy to see Syria destroyed.

It's currently being destroyed, that's the issue. A volatile unstable Syria doesn't suit any of the bordering countries.

The Israeli lobbies are pushing hard for US to attack even when it will hurt US interests in the region.

Plans for punitive strikes have been shelved days ago.

Karl Stein

Jonny7 wrote: »

John Kerry also has the support of 20+ surrounding Arab nations on the issue.

Source?

Are you talking about dictators, despicable human rights hell-hole kingdoms, and heads of police states or are you talking about the people who live in these countries?

You're aware that these Arab nations are some of the world's worst human rights abusers, and some had even worse records than Syria had before the war broke out, right?

seanie_c

Jonny7 wrote: »

John Kerry also has the support of 20+ surrounding Arab nations on the issue.

Why don't you name them all and tell us which ones are democracies?
I know you won't bother because it will only expose the hypocrisy of US and Israeli policies towards dictators.

In fact you'll find few instances in history where the Israelis, Arabs, US, Europe, and even Muslim extremists find themselves literally on the "same side" re Assad.

When it suited them, of course.
I hope you're not implying I support Assad, because it should be clear, I don't. However, that doesn't imply I support murdering Syrian civilians so Israel can steal resources from Syria, such as water, gas and oil.

It's currently being destroyed, that's the issue. A volatile unstable Syria doesn't suit any of the bordering countries.

It suits Israel perfectly.
In fact, the US accomplishes absolutely nothing by attacking Syria.

Plans for punitive strikes have been shelved days ago.

Put off until a future date but I don't think anyone can stop AIPAC getting what it wants over the long term.

Eventually, Israeli lobbies will get Europe and America to fight Iran on Israels behalf, it's absolutely inevitable.

You already have Irish foreign minister for defense, Alan Shatter (who is incidentally pro-Israeli himself) sending 15 million euro, which he claims the government can't use here in Ireland, to Israel for weapons.

To put the icing on the cake, he sends 150 Irish men to the Golan Heights in order to protect Israel from the same Islamic militants Israel is supporting on the ground with humanitarian aid.

While the Syrians are busy defending their country from foreign backed terrorists, Israel sells oil/gas drilling rights in Golan Heights to a private company, Genie Energy.
You couldn't make it up, but some how Israel manages to get away with it.

Karl Stein

seanie_c wrote: »

In fact, the US accomplishes absolutely nothing by attacking Syria.

Hmm.. there's that whole Iran-Syria-Hezbollah thing the US would like to screw up. There's also a pipeline planned to get Iranian gas to the Med that the US planners probably wouldn't mind being 'postponed'.

seanie_c

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Hmm.. there's that whole Iran-Syria-Hezbollah thing the US would like to screw up. There's also a pipeline planned to get Iranian gas to the Med that the US planners probably wouldn't mind being 'postponed'.

I would say Iran-Syria-Hezbollah are more a threat to Israel than the US.
After all, the creation of Hezbollah was a response to Israel invading Lebanon in 1982.
Israeli lobbies and neoconservatives just use American military power to do their dirty work in the middle east.

Naturally, Israel will say they are the victims, as they always do.

Regarding the pipeline, Israel discovered Gas in the Mediterranean.
The Leviathan field discovered in 2010 would be a direct competitor to the pipeline through Syria from Iran that you mention.

For me anyway, the only beneficiaries of US attacking Syria are Israel.
On the surface, it appears that Qatar and Turkey might benefit and there's some silly notion Saudi Arabia would too... but really, Israel come out on top.

• Break Hezbollah link to Iran through Syria
• Acquire control of Hasbani/Litani rivers which they've wanted to do for many decades.
• Annex The Golan Heights and profit from the oil and gas there, with full protection of UN soldiers (Irish)
• Sell Gas from Leviathan to European markets without any competition.
• Isolate Iran further before a final attack on their country the same as Iraq, Libya and now Syria.

What does US get from any of this? They bankrupt themselves and have lots of dead or dysfunctional veterans (PTSD, physical disabilities) to show for all this mayhem.

Syrians, (like Iraqis before them) watch in horror, their country destroyed with millions of Syrians displaced, most of them ending up worse off than they were under Assad.

Karl Stein

I'm not convinced of the 'it's all about Israel' thing tbh. If anything the US uses Israel as its attack dog to keep the region under control (a lot of Israelis hold this view too btw).

The US wants to keep Iran from developing as a regional power and the whole Iranian nukes thing is the bogey man that allows the US to keep its boot on Iran's neck.

A U.S. State Department memo refers to Middle Eastern oil as "a stupendous source of strategic power, and one of the greatest material prizes in world history." During U.S.-British negotiations over the control of Middle Eastern oil, President Roosevelt sketches out a map of the Middle East and tells the British Ambassador, "Persian oil is yours. We share the oil of Iraq and Kuwait. As for Saudi Arabian oil, it's ours."

www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6308.htm

Jonny7

seanie_c wrote: »

Why don't you name them all and tell us which ones are democracies?
I know you won't bother because it will only expose the hypocrisy of US and Israeli policies towards dictators.

Oh it's a beautiful hotch-potch of kingships, ruling families, dynasties and even states-to-be (Palestine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Arab_League

When it suited them, of course.
I hope you're not implying I support Assad, because it should be clear, I don't. However, that doesn't imply I support murdering Syrian civilians so Israel can steal resources from Syria, such as water, gas and oil.

It's not a plot I've heard of, and it's doubtful the Arab league would be on "their side" if it were.. think about it.

It suits Israel perfectly.

The situation doesn't really suit Israel at all. The current and potential instability is a bigger threat than an Assad-ruled Syria.

Then again they can't be seen to support the evil dictator slaughtering his people.

The thing they fear the most at present time is the situation being exploited to lob some chemical weapon in their direction, that's why they've moved a lot of their anti-missile and so on equipment up to the Northern border.

seanie_c

I'm not convinced of the 'it's all about Israel' thing tbh. If anything the US uses Israel as its attack dog to keep the region under control (a lot of Israelis hold this view too btw).

That may be true but in what way does the US benefit?
How did UK citizens personally benefit from invading Iraq and Libya?
How would they benefit bombing Syria?

Seems to me, most of this bombing is causing a demographic change in the UK.
According to statistics, Muslims will outnumber Christians by 2030.

Hardly a benefit to UK if Muslims want to implement Sharia law.

The US wants to keep Iran from developing as a regional power and the whole Iranian nukes thing is the bogey man that allows the US to keep it's boot on Iran's neck.

Why though?

The neoconservatives / pro-Israelis would have us believe it's in US national interest to invade Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Iran but I've yet to see how America has benefit at all.

China needs oil and gas from the Middle East, why aren't they over there fighting for it?

UK/France and US among some other nations have members of government loyal to Israel.

Even the Irish government has Alan Shatter now...

Jonny7

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Hmm.. there's that whole Iran-Syria-Hezbollah thing the US would like to screw up. There's also a pipeline planned to get Iranian gas to the Med that the US planners probably wouldn't mind being 'postponed'.

If you are referring to the proposed Iranian-Europe gas pipeline, it would cross the border at Turkey and would not go near Syria.

Karl Stein

Jonny7 wrote: »

Oh it's a beautiful hotch-potch of kingships, ruling families, dynasties

Rendering your 'Kerry has the support of numerous human rights ****-holes' statement meaningless.

You do know, Johnny, that Kerry doesn't even have the support of the majority of Americans, right?

and even states-to-be (Palestine)

In their dreams.

Jonny7 wrote: »

If you are referring to the proposed Iranian-Europe gas pipeline, it would cross the border at Turkey and would not go near Syria.

In July 2011 Iranian officials announced a $10 billion gas pipeline deal between Syria, Iraq and Iran that would transport gas from Iran’s South Pars gas field, the world’s biggest, through Iraq to Syria.

openoil.net/2012/03/28/syrias-transit-future-all-pipelines-lead-to-damascus/

[QUOTE=seanie_c;

Senile John McCain and Pedophile Lindsey Graham being the biggest supporters of military action, is clear evidence of what the Israelis really want.

Lindsey Graham? eh, could you explain that comment above??

What source are you getting that from?

Jonny7

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Rendering your 'Kerry has the support of numerous human rights ****-holes' meaningless.

I think you've misunderstood me there.

I am surprised that the Arabs would so unanimously supporting this apparent Israeli plot to .. what is it again, grab resources and land?..

Karl Stein

Jonny7 wrote: »

I think you've misunderstood me there.

I am surprised that the Arabs would so unanimously supporting this apparent Israeli plot to .. what is it again, grab resources and land?..

Where's your evidence that the majority of Arabs support anything the US does other than, perhaps, piss off out of the region?

seanie_c

Jonny7 wrote: »

Oh it's a beautiful hotch-potch of kingships, ruling families, dynasties and even states-to-be (Palestine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Arab_League

Yep, no doubt in fear of losing those positions if they dare speak out against Israeli policies in the region.

It's not a plot I've heard of, and it's doubtful the Arab league would be on "their side" if it were.. think about it.

What the Arab League say publicly isn't necessarily what they say in private.

The situation doesn't really suit Israel at all. The current and potential instability is a bigger threat than an Assad-ruled Syria.

Then again they can't be seen to support the evil dictator slaughtering his people.

Israel are providing humanitarian aid to foreign backed terrorists in Syria. Let's not forget, these same terrorists are not welcome in Syria, but Israel supports them anyway.

The thing they fear the most at present time is the situation being exploited to lob some chemical weapon in their direction, that's why they've moved a lot of their anti-missile and so on equipment up to the Northern border.

Well, they should have thought out a better strategy then because they clearly didn't expect as much resistance from Russia on this issue despite what NATO did to Libya 2 years ago.

Read an article by Jean Bricmont and Diana Johnstone

An American friend who knows Washington well recently told us that “everybody” there knows that, as far as the drive to war with Syria is concerned, it is Israel that directs U.S. policy.

Why then, we replied, don’t opponents of war say it out loud, since, if the American public knew that, support for the war would collapse? Of course, we knew the answer to that question. They are afraid to say all they know, because if you blame the pro-Israel lobby, you are branded an anti-Semite in the media and your career is destroyed.

Israel are backing these terrorists in Syria because all the evidence suggests they are.

From the Syrian Emergency Task Force, to John McCain and Lindsey Graham, to AIPAC and other lobby groups including Doctors without Borders helping terrorists in Syria. Not to mention the documents detailing a strategy to destroy Israel's enemies in the region going back to the early 80s.

Jonny7

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Where's your evidence that the majority of Arabs support anything the US does other than, perhaps, piss off out of the region?

I am speaking about their governments. As part of the Arab league, supporting the US on Libya and on Syria.

They wouldn't be doing so if it were some nefarious US plot. Even less so if it was an Israeli one. Unless you want to get really tinfoil of course.

Karl Stein

Dude ^^ the Pentagon tells Israel what to do not the other way round. Remember when they made Israel give back the Sinai? AIPAC did not want Chuck Hegel in the job he's in but there he is.

seanie_c

Jonny7 wrote: »

I am speaking about their governments. As part of the Arab league, supporting the US on Libya and on Syria.

They wouldn't be doing so if it were some nefarious US plot. Even less so if it was an Israeli one. Unless you want to get really tinfoil of course.

You only lose credibility when you start name calling.
It shows you can't win the argument.

Jonny7

seanie_c wrote: »

Israel are providing humanitarian aid to foreign backed terrorists in Syria. Let's not forget, these same terrorists are not welcome in Syria, but Israel supports them anyway.

Which groups?

Israel are backing these terrorists in Syria because all the evidence suggests they are.

Backing who exactly and how?

Karl Stein

Jonny7 wrote: »

I am speaking about their governments. As part of the Arab league, supporting the US on Libya and on Syria.

If by governments you mean brutal rulers and human rights abusers then I guess you're right. A bunch of human rights abusing dictators, royal families, and police states support a man called John Kerry (who deosn't even have the support of the majority of Americans for US intervention in Syria).

What a boast.

seanie_c

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Dude ^^ the Pentagon tells Israel what to do not the other way round. Remember when they made Israel give back the Sinai? AIPAC did not want Chuck Hegel in the job he's in but there he is.

He may have the job but he knows how powerful the Israeli lobbies in US are.
Look at the grilling he got from Israelis in the US confirmation hearing.

He dare not speak his mind on Israel, for obvious reasons.

Jonny7

Charlie Rock wrote: »

If by governments you mean brutal rulers and human rights abusers then I guess you're right. A bunch of human rights abusing dictators, royal families, and police states support a man called John Kerry (who deosn't even have the support of the majority of Americans for US intervention in Syria).

I fully agree, plenty of loathsome regimes and family dynasties that have no place in power.

My point is, if this plot (by Sean here) is real, then why would regional leaders who loathe Israel be supporting them? it makes no sense.

seanie_c

Jonny7 wrote: »

Which groups?

I know of at least 2 pro-Israeli NGO groups operating in Syria right now, supporting the opposition.

Israeli Flying Aid
Doctors Without Borders

They're providing food, medicine, medical treatment for wounded "rebels".
They did the same in Libya when toppling Gaddafi.

It was none other than the Israeli Mossad providing "evidence" Assad was behind Chemical Weapons attack some weeks back, as you may know.

Jonny7

seanie_c wrote: »

I know of at least 2 pro-Israeli NGO groups operating in Syria right now, supporting the opposition.

Israeli Flying Aid
Doctors Without Borders

They're providing food, medicine, medical treatment for wounded "rebels". They did the same in Libya when toppling Gaddafi.

They are medical agencies, they are treating Syrian men, women and children. You just said terrorist groups.

seanie_c

Jonny7 wrote: »

They are medical agencies, they are treating Syrian men, women and children. You just said terrorist groups.

Yes, they are pro-Israeli NGO (Non governmental Organizations) helping "rebels"

“We go where we’re not invited,” Gal Lusky told me by phone from Tel Aviv, a few days after returning from another clandestine mission in Syria, where she and other Jews have brought in about 300,000 meals, five ambulances, and some 700 tons of aid over the past 18 months to help some of the millions of displaced victims of the Syrian war.

Lusky, who in 2005 founded the group Israeli Flying Aid, a nonprofit, non-governmental organization (NGO) that provides humanitarian relief to communities stricken by natural disasters or territorial conflicts around the world, asked me not to reveal how she got into Syria.

“We got in trouble last time because a previous route was revealed,” she said. “We can’t have this one revealed.”

She also got in trouble when a Syrian rebel commander found out that she was an Israeli Jew. Although Lusky had provided critical humanitarian assistance to the commander’s group, the commander could not swallow that she was part of the Zionist enemy.
“Let me finish with them [the Syrian government], and then I’m coming for you,” he told her.

read the full article here

Jonny7

seanie_c wrote: »

Yes, they are pro-Israeli NGO (Non governmental Organizations) helping "rebels"
read the full article here

jesus in heaven above, how are they terrorists? or supporting terrorists? they are helping anyone who needs help in a warzone

from the article

As President Barack Obama and the world deliberate over how to respond to Syria’s murderous decision to use chemical weapons, a group of Israeli Jews have been fighting the humanitarian crisis the old-fashioned way—by smuggling aid into Syria. For these Jews, a life lost is a life lost. The 100,000 Syrian lives lost since the war started two years ago have the same human value to them as the lives lost recently through chemical weapons.

That’s why they’ve been at this for 18 months.

“We go where we’re not invited,” Gal Lusky told me by phone from Tel Aviv, a few days after returning from another clandestine mission in Syria, where she and other Jews have brought in about 300,000 meals, five ambulances, and some 700 tons of aid over the past 18 months to help some of the millions of displaced victims of the Syrian war.

Over the years, Lusky and her team of activists—which comprises volunteers from a variety of professions including doctors, psychologists and social workers—have supplied aid to victims where even the United Nations and the Red Cross have struggled to help. Their missions have assisted flood victims in Chechnya, earthquake victims in India, Kashmir and Pakistan, tsunami victims in Sri Lanka, refugees in Iraq, genocide victims in Sudan, earthquake victims in Haiti, and, most recently, victims of hurricanes Katrina and Sandy.

seanie_c

Jonny7 wrote: »

jesus in heaven above, how are they terrorists? or supporting terrorists? they are helping anyone who needs help in a warzone

from the article

Right.

But of course, how naive of me.

When white phosphorus was raining down on Palestinians some years back, do you think IFA were in helping Palestinians?

I mean..."they go where they're not invited and care very deeply for civilians caught up in this struggle for freedom and democracy" . . . etc

Who do you think sponsors this NGO?
Do you think it might be the same people sponsoring the opposition fighters?

Undoubtedly.