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FSA Think Tank - New Bonus Points System

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,079 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    moreau wrote: »
    Great stuff guys

    I did a quick (could be small errors) tot up there over lunch on first two GW for this year and last:


    2012-2013 20 games 55 goals 13 CS
    2013-2014 21 games 45 goals 16 CS

    Much smaller difference than I thought tbh

    Interesting comment by FutureGuy on accepting and adapting. Yes I am going try and adapt but if this becomes too annoying and unenjoyable I will jack it in! And believe me I love the game, won private league last year and finished <1500 worldwide, in which this forum had a huge part to play.

    Showing my age here but as a comparison I used to play Championship Manager 2 and absolutely loved it. Then they changed the style of the new game, in terms of unnecessary complexity etc. and I just did not get into it and stopped playing. This is a game at the end of the day.

    It's going to be a bit of a wait and see for me but this BPS is making us look at defenders and as result formations, captaincy, everything in a whole new light. As has been frequently said it is a 'game changer', and as my football manager comparison above, if it has changed too much for my liking and enjoyment, I will simply stop playing it.

    It makes sense to do though as it will make people think more about all 15 players rather than just get the 5 cheapest defenders who get their game and pump money into midfielders and forwards. Strikers and mids score or assist and they're still golden, defenders are being rewarded for getting their CS in the same way now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    After the success of last weeks BPS recap I decided I'd do another one as many will Wildcard this week and want to know who's performing.


    Man City vs Hull

    3BPs: Zabaleta and Toure on 11 get 3 bonus points each due to an assist and goal respectively along with Zabaleta's defensive output
    1BP: Negredo got 9 in the BPS due to his goal.

    Observations: Lescott and Nastasic lose out with 8 in the BPS showing that defenders won't always score BPs while keeping a clean sheet, however if Zab didn't provide the assist there's a good chance all 3 would have received 1. Livermore stood out for Hull on 5.



    Cardiff vs Everton

    3BPs: Distin stands alone on 10 with a clean sheet and obviously out-muscled his teammates for the cause, but only just.
    2BPs: Baines on 9 with 2 BPs
    1BP: Both Coleman and Jagielka on 8 bringing up the rear in the Everton back 4.

    Observations: Both sides kept cleansheets yet the highest scoring Cardiff defender was Caulker on 7 with Turner and Taylor on 6. Elsewhere outside of the backline/keepers we have DM Medel on 5. Martinez having Everton defenders scoring well is not something we could have predicted in pre-season.


    Newcastle vs Fulham

    3BPs: Collocini with the 3 on a score of 11 out-doing the rest of his defenders and the match-winner Ben Arfa
    2BPs: Here we have Ben Arfa and Yanga-Mbiwa both on a score of 10. Ben Arfa with the goal and Mbiwa just behind Collo

    Observations: Riether was on a clean sheet being subbed just before the goal but was only on 8 along with Santon. Stockdale on 6 having made 8 saves. Hughes and Hangeland on 5 even after conceding.


    Norwich vs Southampton


    3BPs: Nathan Redmond claims all 3 with a strong score of 10. He scored the only goal of the game having finally lived up to the good performances of previous weeks
    2BPs: Bassong and Fer both on 8 claim 2 BPs. Fer with the assist and a few crucial tackles in midfield.

    Observations: Having actually watched this game I have more of an understanding of logic behind some of this. Fer was on 7 until 90 minutes when he made a fantastic tackle which brought him up to 8 BPS which left Turner and the rest of Norwich's backline stranded on 7 and all unlucky to miss out 1 BP. Ward-Prowse the highest scorer for the Saints on 5.


    West Ham vs Stoke

    3BPs: Wilson picked up 9 on the BPS playing out of position as a DM.
    2BPs: Pennant on as a sub with the only goal of the game on 8
    1BP: Begovic and Shawcross on 7 each doing well keeping a cleansheet. Also Nzonzi got 7

    Observations: Nzonzi picking up 7 is the most peculiar thing here. How a midfielder without any attacking returns picks up 7 is interesting. Huth and Pieters were both on 6 with Cameron on 5 after picking up a yellow.


    Crystal Palace vs Sunderland

    3BPs: Gayle with the winning goal tops the charts here with a score of 10 in the BPS
    2BPs: On 9 we have Fletcher with Sunderland's goal
    1BP: Colback and Gabbidon assist and goal.

    Observations: On 60 minutes Ward was second to Gabbidon in the BPS however after a glut of goals Ward finished on 6 once again illustrating his capabilities for picking them up in the right circumstances. Diakite also scored 6 while O'Keefe picked up 7 with a goal and 8 minutes of play.


    Final Observations:
    - Defenders picking up the majority of the BP's in the new BPS was once again the order of the day. With Zabaleta, Collocini, Distin and Wilson all picking up maximum returns. Midfielders Redmond and Toure also scored maximum BPs today each with a goal.

    - It was interesting that Redmond got all 3 Bonus Points when other solitary goal scorers Ben Arfa and Pennant both only scored 2 BPs (although Pennant was only a sub).

    - Also Gabbidon missing out on a BP after scoring shows that attacking returns are not as important to defenders under the BPS as Colback snuck ahead of him with just an assist. Both ended up on 8 with a BP each

    - Lovren did well the past 2 weeks claiming 4 Bonus Points between them however only scored 3 in the BPS 5 behind Bassong on 8 and 4 behind the rest of Norwich's defense.

    - If a forward scorers in a game with a few goals and he's the only forward to score he will most likely pick up a BP or too as seen with subs Negredo and Fletcher both getting only 45 minutes in the the only games with 2 or more goals in them.

    That's this weeks analysis hopefully it will be of some help :)

    Edit: Gabbidon and Colback got 1 BP each obviously under the review after the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    you know the game is a mess when ghost teams stacked with defenders are 260 in the world. 5-4-1 eh?

    http://fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/1765639/event-history/3/


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Iused2likebusts


    kennyb3 wrote: »
    you know the game is a mess when ghost teams stacked with defenders are 260 in the world. 5-4-1 eh?

    http://fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/1765639/event-history/3/

    they mentioned on motd that the start of the season has seen the lowest goals per game figures since the start of the premier league. Wont be going 5 4 1 just yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    Still doesn't change the fact it's now 8/9 points per CS. 18 clean sheets means about 150 points before attacking returns. That's a huge return in points per million.

    And there is no eveidence to suggest things will change;

    we have mourinho back, we have moyes at man u (more defensive then fegie), liverpool have tightened up under rodgers, AVB has tightened up the free scoring/free conceding spurs - adding capoue tightens them further. Only Arsenal for me remain as a Kamikaze side


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Santi101


    Arsenal will tighten up as the season goes on, we did it last season too.

    Spurs' defence is rubbish IMO, and will begin conceding freely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Santi101 wrote: »
    Arsenal will tighten up as the season goes on, we did it last season too.

    Spurs' defence is rubbish IMO, and will begin conceding freely.

    I also think Liverpool's defence isn't as tight as it has appeared so far.

    Villa had nine scoring chances to Liverpool's two for example.

    I'm hoping RVP will breach it today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Prodston


    Santi101 wrote: »
    Arsenal will tighten up as the season goes on, we did it last season too.

    Spurs' defence is rubbish IMO, and will begin conceding freely.

    I agree about Arsenal and to an extent Spurs defense isn't fantastic BUT look at their midfield, it's going to be much tougher to breach them this year if you have the 3 of the likes of Capoue, Dembele, Sandro, Paulinho in front of them. Plus I wouldn't call Vert, Dawson, Kaboul rubbish either and Lloris is rather decent. Walker is the weak link defensively. So if the other CB spot is sorted out alongside Vert then there's a great chance of clean sheets at times


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭moreau


    I know this is an isolated example, but Walcott yesterday with his assist getting no BP is very concerning to me.

    Whats worse is he only scored 4 in the BPS behind 8 of his team mates, including Ramsey. He was actually level with Giroud in the EA PPI on 36.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    moreau wrote: »
    I know this is an isolated example, but Walcott yesterday with his assist getting no BP is very concerning to me.

    Whats worse is he only scored 4 in the BPS behind 8 of his team mates, including Ramsey. He was actually level with Giroud in the EA PPI on 36.

    It is not that isolated at all, the new system is not guaranteeing bonus points for a winning goalscorer (not covered in this post) or assist from a forward or midfielder (below).

    There have been eight 1-0 wins so far where a midfielder or forward (mainly midfielders) has contributed with the assist.
    Only one of these games have resulted in that midfielder or striker getting any bonus points and as you can see, they are shipping a lot of bonus points from the old ESP system.

    SLand 0-1 Fulham
    Duff assist - No Bonus (Would have got 2 with old system)

    Spurs 1-0 Palace
    Lennon assist - No Bonus (Would have got 2 with old system)

    Hull 1-0 Norwich
    Sagbo (FW) assist - No Bonus (Would have got 0 with old system, SUB)

    Spurs 1-0 Swansea
    Townsend assist - No Bonus (Would have got 3 with old system)

    NCastle 1-0 Fulham
    Remy assist - No Bonus (Would have got 0 with old system, SUB)

    Norwich 1-0 S'Ton
    Fer assist - Bonus (Got the same as with new and old)

    WHam 0-1 Stoke
    Whelan assist - No Bonus (Would have got 0 with old system, SUB)

    Arsenal 1-0 Spurs
    Walcott assist - No Bonus (Would have got 3 with old system)

    Basically, with the old system, if a Midfielder or Forward played near a full game (only exceptions above are subs with circa 20mins played) and weighed in with an assist in a 1-0, then they were in line for 2 or 3 Bonus Points.
    Not the case at all with this new system.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Wildcard actuvated. That's how serious I am about these changes to the game...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Iused2likebusts


    i wonder is it time to consider a defender as a viable captain option


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    I've completely changed my approach this year based on the first 3 GW's and the new BPS.
    Fair enough, I had lost a lot of interest in FF over the last few years, but I would never have dreamed of picking the team and formations I am doing and plan to do now. I think 5-3-2 is coming slightly ahead as my preferred.

    My back six are currently made up of
    2 Pool, 1 City, 1 Utd, 1 Everton, 1 W'Ham.

    I will be changing that to 1 Chelsea and 0 W'Ham in a few GW's.
    I will also be watching Everton closely, I'm prepared to let Seamie go for a "big 4 or 5" defender if needs be as I think they'll start to leak a few goals under his style (and if Baines/Fellaini go)

    If last years clean sheets are anything to go by, then I fancy having the option of a solid 6 to choose from with a 40% or so chance of a clean sheet.

    Clean Sheets 12/13
    City 43%
    Pool 42%
    Chelsea 37% (this should increase under Jose I think)
    Arsenal 37%
    United 34% (feeling this will increase under Moyes....purely because he will be more cautious)
    Everton 29%

    38 games with an average of 15-16 clean sheets that, with the right high scoring BPS defender averaging of 7 points.
    16*7= 112 Points
    22 remaining games with no clean sheet @ 2 points = 44 points
    That's 156 points without any of them chipping in with a goal or an assist all season or any bonus points for in a game that the concede (which is no longer a long shot).

    I think we'll see a few 200+ defenders this year.

    You have more chances of playing them, and at a fraction of the cost per point you'll get further up the field.

    I may be guilty of matching of making my argument suit my position :o
    Any thoughts on the above strategy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭Mike Ehrmantraut


    i wonder is it time to consider a defender as a viable captain option

    Hard to call, clean sheet for a top defender, nearly seems to guarantee bp's. Think the new bps has swung too far in favour of defenders.

    Last season if you had a midfielder with an assist in a 1-0 win you'd most likely pick up 2bp's, but no guarantee with the new system!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭Mike Ehrmantraut


    ajcurry123 wrote: »
    I've completely changed my approach this year based on the first 3 GW's and the new BPS.
    Fair enough, I had lost a lot of interest in FF over the last few years, but I would never have dreamed of picking the team and formations I am doing and plan to do now. I think 5-3-2 is coming slightly ahead as my preferred.

    My back six are currently made up of
    2 Pool, 1 City, 1 Utd, 1 Everton, 1 W'Ham.

    I will be changing that to 1 Chelsea and 0 W'Ham in a few GW's.
    I will also be watching Everton closely, I'm prepared to let Seamie go for a "big 4 or 5" defender if needs be as I think they'll start to leak a few goals under his style (and if Baines/Fellaini go)

    If last years clean sheets are anything to go by, then I fancy having the option of a solid 6 to choose from with a 40% or so chance of a clean sheet.

    Clean Sheets 12/13
    City 43%
    Pool 42%
    Chelsea 37% (this should increase under Jose I think)
    Arsenal 37%
    United 34% (feeling this will increase under Moyes....purely because he will be more cautious)
    Everton 29%

    38 games with an average of 15-16 clean sheets that, with the right high scoring BPS defender averaging of 7 points.
    16*7= 112 Points
    22 remaining games with no clean sheet @ 2 points = 44 points
    That's 156 points without any of them chipping in with a goal or an assist all season or any bonus points for in a game that the concede (which is no longer a long shot).

    I think we'll see a few 200+ defenders this year.

    You have more chances of playing them, and at a fraction of the cost per point you'll get further up the field.

    I may be guilty of matching of making my argument suit my position :o
    Any thoughts on the above strategy?

    Think your right, started off probably the same as most on here with what looked a really good (and expensive) midfield, not expecting the new bps to have such an impact so yeah, think it's time rethink, and go from 3 4 3 formation to either 4 3 3 or 5 2 3 with some decent defenders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭moreau


    Great stuff AJ, exactly the info I was looking for!

    Think your strategy is really good except I prefer 433 to 532, such is the options up front compared to midfield.

    Re captain, I am not at the stage of considering defenders as captains just yet. Need a bit more time to see if the number of clean sheets is just down to chance, or is it down to the number of teams playing 4231, or indeed 451 which it is easily changed to.

    I could be completely wrong here, but I wonder if these stalemates are due to over-use and over-familarity with this system...which is in fact a very defensive system when the '3' are tasked with contributing to defending which I have noticed a lot in the games I have watched this year, admittedly very small sample size with just 3 GW's :rolleyes:

    Also the thought of captaining a defender in the hope of a clean sheet just feels wrong and joyless. Imagine logging on here to see captain 'RVP hatrick!!!' compared to 'Vidic clean sheet!!!'.

    Humpf!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,022 ✭✭✭✭Iused2likebusts


    ajcurry123 wrote: »
    I've completely changed my approach this year based on the first 3 GW's and the new BPS.
    Fair enough, I had lost a lot of interest in FF over the last few years, but I would never have dreamed of picking the team and formations I am doing and plan to do now. I think 5-3-2 is coming slightly ahead as my preferred.

    My back six are currently made up of
    2 Pool, 1 City, 1 Utd, 1 Everton, 1 W'Ham.

    I will be changing that to 1 Chelsea and 0 W'Ham in a few GW's.
    I will also be watching Everton closely, I'm prepared to let Seamie go for a "big 4 or 5" defender if needs be as I think they'll start to leak a few goals under his style (and if Baines/Fellaini go)

    If last years clean sheets are anything to go by, then I fancy having the option of a solid 6 to choose from with a 40% or so chance of a clean sheet.

    Clean Sheets 12/13
    City 43%
    Pool 42%
    Chelsea 37% (this should increase under Jose I think)
    Arsenal 37%
    United 34% (feeling this will increase under Moyes....purely because he will be more cautious)
    Everton 29%

    38 games with an average of 15-16 clean sheets that, with the right high scoring BPS defender averaging of 7 points.
    16*7= 112 Points
    22 remaining games with no clean sheet @ 2 points = 44 points
    That's 156 points without any of them chipping in with a goal or an assist all season or any bonus points for in a game that the concede (which is no longer a long shot).

    I think we'll see a few 200+ defenders this year.

    You have more chances of playing them, and at a fraction of the cost per point you'll get further up the field.

    I may be guilty of matching of making my argument suit my position :o
    Any thoughts on the above strategy?

    Great post well done. Im definetely changing my strategy away from a 3 4 3. Im not quite ready to go to 5 at the back but will be setting up as 4 3 3 I reckon. My back 6 will be something like Mig,Cole,vidic,kosceilny, dawson, collins. It gives me the potential to go 5 at the back if needed. The big departure here is Im not going with any 4.0 defenders. Midfield I'll have walcott and 1 other big hitter with probably 3 mids under 5.5 that I rotate. Up front 3 big hitters that are guaranteed to play every week. ( rvp, rooney, sturridge, soldado, benteke, giroud in some sort of combination).
    The Bps have made a big difference but its been a strange start to the season with a severe lack of goals hardly any of the big hitting midfielders have scored and thats obviously going to change. Once things settle down I'd imagine the average number of goals per game will increase a fair bit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Great post well done. Im definetely changing my strategy away from a 3 4 3. Im not quite ready to go to 5 at the back but will be setting up as 4 3 3 I reckon. My back 6 will be something like Mig,Cole,vidic,kosceilny, dawson, collins. It gives me the potential to go 5 at the back if needed. The big departure here is Im not going with any 4.0 defenders. Midfield I'll have walcott and 1 other big hitter with probably 3 mids under 5.5 that I rotate. Up front 3 big hitters that are guaranteed to play every week. ( rvp, rooney, sturridge, soldado, benteke, giroud in some sort of combination).
    The Bps have made a big difference but its been a strange start to the season with a severe lack of goals hardly any of the big hitting midfielders have scored and thats obviously going to change. Once things settle down I'd imagine the average number of goals per game will increase a fair bit.

    This is really wrecking my head, my gut is saying to stick with splashing the cash on 3 quality (but expensive) midfielders with back up from Nolan and Brady depending on fixtures. I really think there'll be a burst of good form by the midfield heavy hitters.

    Granted they are not, and will not get as many BP's as before, I still struggle to see that Forwards (of the same value) will out perform the midfielders.

    All this based on the premise that I'm RVPless (and prob will be for some time) and 3 expensive midfielders in the 9-10m is an option over 3 strikers of the same value (leaving a weakened MF)


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    As a mod, I have to say I'm delighted by how some of our newer members in recent months have added such excellent quality to the place.

    Keep it up lads!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,554 ✭✭✭Bleating Lamb


    Even with the bonus points system the way it was last season at least once a month I had a def as Captain and more times than not it paid off.....had def who were likely to get CS,assists or goals.
    Will def be something to do this year but need around 3 more GWs to see if avg scores in games go up.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,249 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    The one thing people have to keep in mind is that there have been some abnormal weekends for low scoring games.

    GW3 saw 13 goals in nine games. That doesn't happen very often.

    I myself am thinking I might drop Nolan for a 4.5 mid and use the 2.5 on my defence. I currently have three 4 to 5 mil defenders. Could upgrade two of those to Vidic and Cahill with the change.


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