FSA Think Tank - New Bonus Points System

kennyb3

To be honest I think this has ruined the game for me - what was it 13 bonuses handed out last night. I want to be praying my midfielders and forwards score and assist not hoping defenders pass the ball between themselves for 15mins at the back. I'm honestly considering jacking it in cause I think it's a farce.

moreau

Morzadec wrote: »

Take note of this.

Both back 4's cleared the 30 passes last night. United's defence cleaered it comfortably, some of Chelsea's just about. In particular Ferdinand (54) and Vidic (62), cleared it with ease.

Vidic had a 94% completion rate. This might have been what seperated him from the other defenders, though there may have been other factors at play (tackles etc..)

Ashley Cole also broke 90 with 91%.

All the other defenders bar Ivanovic (78%) broke 80%.

Cheers for this, where did you get these figures from?

Lemlin

kennyb3 wrote: »

To be honest I think this has ruined the game for me - what was it 13 bonuses handed out last night. I want to be praying my midfielders and forwards score and assist not hoping defenders pass the ball between themselves for 15mins at the back. I'm honestly considering jacking it in cause I think it's a farce.

I have to agree. It's a joke to think defenders will get bonus for knocking the ball about in a boring 0-0 draw.

FutureGuy

Excellent work Kev! Great comparison.

G1032 wrote: »

All defenders. 2nd game now that Terry, Cole and Cahill have all gotten 2 bonus.

Exactly! What's even more interesting is that Ivan didn't figure both times even though he also got a clean sheet. What's he doing differently to the other 3?


Likewise, Vidic had 4 more BPS than everyone else in a 0-0 draw!

Here's my input...

IVANOVIC vs The Chelsea Backline

It seems that Ivanovic is doesn't tackle as much as the rest of the Chelsea defenders (he only made 1 tackle all game long!) and his passing accuracy is about 10-15% below his co-defenders (e.g Terry beat him by 15%). He's below all three in terms of clearances, blocks and interceptions.

His attacking stats are excellent, but unless he scores or assist, these endeavours will bear little fruit.

All this means he falls 1-2 points behind Cole, Terry and Cahill, and when there is a clean sheet, he figure less in the bonus point distribution than others.

VIDIC vs All Other Defenders
Vidic had over 90% pass completion yesterday due to keeping it simple and utilizing Ferdinand, Carrick and Clevery with simple balls. He was over 90% last week too.

Hoever, he absolutely destroyed EVERYONE with his CBI total (16 = 2 BPS), 8 recoveries (=1 BPS), and made 3 successful tackles (=1 BPS).

So I think Vidic had a busy night. Remember, if he made 1 less successful tackle, 1 les recovery and 1 less interception, he'd be down 3 BPS so it was a fine line between 3 bonus for Vidic and 3 bonus for Vidic AND all the 2 Bonus players.

FutureGuy

Guys, listen. I know it's annoying that the game has undergone a seismic shift in terms of the Bonus distribution, but the faster we react to the change, the faster we will benefit.

The changes to the game mean that we have almost come full circle from about 4-5 years ago when 5-3-2 was the preferred formation.

The top ranked players that year saw which way the wind was blowing and turned their sails to catch the new wind. It was the same when 4-3-3 and then 3-4-3 became the popular formation. Even last year, 3-5-2 was viable.

We need to do the same.

Amirani

The question is: 4-4-2 or 4-3-3?

I'm probably leaning towards the latter at the moment.

FutureGuy

NiallSparky wrote: »

The question is: 4-4-2 or 4-3-3?

I'm probably leaning towards the latter at the moment.

Right now, personally, 4-3-3 but I am honestly weighing up 5-2-3.

Crazy.

dahat

5-3-2 is too drastic just yet,a change to 4-3-3 should see most through a few weeks but if the bigger teams continue to get CS then the 5-3-2 will be nessecary.

It is just hard to see the Big 5 mid's scoring so low in the long term, when they hit form we will know for sure how the new BP system rewards that.

alchemist33

dahat wrote: »

5-3-2 is too drastic just yet,a change to 4-3-3 should see most through a few weeks but if the bigger teams continue to get CS then the 5-3-2 will be nessecary.

It is just hard to see the Big 5 mid's scoring so low in the long term, when they hit form we will know for sure how the new BP system rewards that.

This is important. All the points mentioned so far are valid, but they're predicated on a lot of clean sheets which may not continue. 5-3-2 would be too risky for now.

FutureGuy

dahat wrote: »

5-3-2 is too drastic just yet,a change to 4-3-3 should see most through a few weeks but if the bigger teams continue to get CS then the 5-3-2 will be nessecary.

It is just hard to see the Big 5 mid's scoring so low in the long term, when they hit form we will know for sure how the new BP system rewards that.

I think we can extrapolate enough data about midfielders to make a decent enough decision right now (or next week). We know they'll get 6BPS for goals and 3BPS for assists. The likes of Coutinho, Walcott and Hazard are playing well so the rest of the BPS factors will stay close to what they are now.

A defense of Mignolet, Zabaleta, Dawson, Cole, Coleman and Toure (1 GK and 5 DEF) costs about 32-33M. And remember, the difference betweek a cheap defender and top class defender is 2M. For mids, it's 4-5M.

As we can see from Kev's excellent BPS/PPI comparison, mids would have been handsomely rewarded this year if we were still using the PPI bonus method. But it is clear that they are not being rewarded. An assist from a midfielder in a 1-0 or 2-0 was usually worthy of 1-2 bonus. Now the defenders are hoovering up those points.

FutureGuy

alchemist33 wrote: »

This is important. All the points mentioned so far are valid, but they're predicated on a lot of clean sheets which may not continue. 5-3-2 would be too risky for now.

Even in a 1-1 draw, defenders are figuring highly.

I understand that we are working off a very small sample base, but Liverpool and Spurs have solid fixtures and look solid defensively. United will be bouyed by Ferdinand, Vidic and DeGea playing more often. Chelsea will be alot tighter under Mourinho. Once Kompany gets back, City will shore things up.

I'm not saying that 5-2-3 is the preferred option but it is certainly an option to consider.

dahat

My lack of "homework" is showing up....

In a 5-3-2 then is RVP central to this?he seems to be the most reliable of all the strikers

FutureGuy

dahat wrote: »

My lack of "homework" is showing up....

In a 5-3-2 then is RVP central to this?he seems to be the most reliable of all the strikers

If I decide to go 5 at the back, which I will decide upon at the weekend, it comes down to whether 3 mids and 2 forwards or 2 mids and 3 forwards is better.

As far as I can see, RVP is not essential at all. A front three of Sturridge, Benteke and Giroud/Soldado looks incredibly formidable.

RVP does give a capaincy choice each week though!

PARlance

Another real change that I see is that this new system seems to award more points to players that suffered from squad rotation in previous years.

Dzecko (69mins) and Negredo (21mins) both got 2 bonus points that wouldn't have been there last year
Bent picked up a bonus point for his 31 mins that he wouldn't have got last year.

dahat

Here is a squad that could easily go 5-3-2 or 4-3-3 and be competitive.

Plenty flexibility around 3 mids and frontmen but only cos RVP is absent

FutureGuy

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Another real change that I see is that this new system seems to award more points to players that suffered from squad rotation in previous years.

Dzecko (69mins) and Negredo (21mins) both got 2 bonus points that wouldn't have been there last year
Bent picked up a bonus point for his 31 mins that he wouldn't have got last year.

That's a very good point.

The Phantom Jipper

I think the pessimism around mids returns is a bit overstated, and might be premature to be downgrading the midfield to bump up the defense on the basis of the first two weeks. Below is the list of mids who scored so far along with BP received in the match they scored in (I haven't factored in assists which might well be undervalued in the new system but humour me for a sec)

Nasri 0 BP
Giaccherini 1 BP
Cole 3 BP
Lampard 0 BP
Adam 0 BP
Toure 2 BP
Silva 1 BP
Oscar 3 BP
Gunnarsson 2 BP
Nolan 3 BP
Brady 3BP
Kasami 2 BP
Barkley 3 BP

There are a couple of zeros and ones in there which can be partially explained;

Nasri and Silva both scored in the same game as Toure (2 BP) and Aguero (3 BP).

Adam didn't play the full 90 and lost out to the other goalscorers (Chamakh and Shawcross) and the assister (Huth)

Giaccherini got surpassed by the goalscorer and assister off Southampton (Fonte (3) and Ward-Prowse (2) )

Lampard got surpassed by the other goalscorer (Oscar) and a rake of clean sheet defenders (which seems to be exception judging from the above)

As many people have alluded to, the problem isn't so much that the top mids have been doing the business and not receiving their just desserts, it's that they haven't started firing on all cylinders yet. So to weigh your team more heavily towards defenders seems to be suggesting that the midfield malaise is going to be a season long phenomenon which imo is unlikely to be the case.

Trust me on this, I finished in the top 2 million last year so I know what i'm talking about ;-)

amber69

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

I think the pessimism around mids returns is a bit overstated, and might be premature to be downgrading the midfield to bump up the defense on the basis of the first two weeks. Below is the list of mids who scored so far along with BP received in the match they scored in (I haven't factored in assists which might well be undervalued in the new system but humour me for a sec)

Nasri 0 BP
Giaccherini 1 BP
Cole 3 BP
Lampard 0 BP
Adam 0 BP
Toure 2 BP
Silva 1 BP
Oscar 3 BP
Gunnarsson 2 BP
Nolan 3 BP
Brady 3BP
Kasami 2 BP
Barkley 3 BP

There are a couple of zeros and ones in there which can be partially explained;

Nasri and Silva both scored in the same game as Toure (2 BP) and Aguero (3 BP).

Adam didn't play the full 90 and lost out to the other goalscorers (Chamakh and Shawcross) and the assister (Huth)

Giaccherini got surpassed by the goalscorer and assister off Southampton (Fonte (3) and Ward-Prowse (2) )

Lampard got surpassed by the other goalscorer (Oscar) and a rake of clean sheet defenders (which seems to be exception judging from the above)

As many people have alluded to, the problem isn't so much that the top mids have been doing the business and not receiving their just desserts, it's that they haven't started firing on all cylinders yet. So to weigh your team more heavily towards defenders seems to be suggesting that the midfield malaise is going to be a season long phenomenon which imo is unlikely to be the case.

Trust me on this, I finished in the top 2 million last year so I know what i'm talking about ;-)

I also finished in the top 2 million but I wasn't going to boast about it.

The Phantom Jipper

amber69 wrote: »

I also finished in the top 2 million but I wasn't going to boast about it.

Ha I was intending a tongue-in-cheek poke at the few who impart wisdom like the pope due to a few impressive finishes. I'm fully conscious that the content of my posts might end up being pure unadulterated guff.

PARlance

FutureGuy wrote: »

That's a very good point.

Cheers, new to this forum but it has got me hooked on FF again. Some great posters, you know who you are
*flattery etc etc.... like me, I'm new *

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

I think the pessimism around mids returns is a bit overstated......

I've had a look into this myself, I also thought the pessimism was a bit uncalled for. I just thought that the expensive/reliable group of players have got off to a bad start to the season and that they'll bounce back and that the BPS would follow.

So.......not happy with the sample sizes being used here, I said I'd take a different angle and create a bigger pool of players to compare EPS v BPS
So far I've managed to take every player that played in GW1 and have put them into their grouping. (There may be the odd missclassification but I don't think it skews it)

Here are the findings:
Haven't really to time to go through them but it certainly does seem that the midfielders are the big losers.
On the old system they would have got 43% of the total points on offer, that has fallen down to 35%

FFGW1.jpg

cathalio11

I must say that I have enjoyed reading this thread and would like the thank some of the guys, especially FutureGuy for the effort put in.
Had Vidic last night but didn't know where to look to see how he got such a high amount of BPS yesterday. Obviously know now without even asking.

I think this is great for Fantasy. Defenders have always been getting low points compared to midfielders and forwards and I think it is about time that they were appreciated more.

In a 0-0 match, the vast majority of the time, it will be the centre backs or goalkeeper who deserve most of the credit, and that was evident last night with very good performances by both Terry and Vidic. They both deserved their bonus points.

Lemlin

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Ha I was intending a tongue-in-cheek poke at the few who impart wisdom like the pope due to a few impressive finishes. I'm fully conscious that the content of my posts might end up being pure unadulterated guff.

I tend to sit up and take note of what those who have had impressive finishes say.

For me, past performance is very much a measure of someone's ability in this game.

FutureGuy

cathalio11 wrote: »

I must say that I have enjoyed reading this thread and would like the thank some of the guys, especially FutureGuy for the effort put in.
Had Vidic last night but didn't know where to look to see how he got such a high amount of BPS yesterday. Obviously know now without even asking.

I think this is great for Fantasy. Defenders have always been getting low points compared to midfielders and forwards and I think it is about time that they were appreciated more.

In a 0-0 match, the vast majority of the time, it will be the centre backs or goalkeeper who deserve most of the credit, and that was evident last night with very good performances by both Terry and Vidic. They both deserved their bonus points.

Thanks for the mention, but this thread is essentially KevIRL's brainchild and I think we are lucky to have so many good players on here. In addition, and this is crucial, we have alot of players who are looking to improve and are actively trying to do so by asking questions and respecting the answers being given.

I have one follower on my twitter who is gas. He'll ask my opinion on two players, then choose the one I don't suggest. The 1 week in 7 his choice outscores mine, he returns to show how good he is. :rolleyes:

As a mod here, I want to encourage good, solid discussion about the varuious topics being debated.

It doesn't matter what level of skill or experience you have with FPL, please don't feel afraid to post your opinion.

I honestly think we have one of the best FPL communities in the world here, both in terms of average player skill and the quality of the posts.

The Phantom Jipper

Lemlin wrote: »

I tend to sit up and take note of what those who have had impressive finishes say.

For me, past performance is very much a measure of someone's ability in this game.

Aye, myself included. Some very knowledgeable posters around these parts. My scores have been helped a good deal by sapping up the insights on show.

FutureGuy

Lemlin wrote: »

I tend to sit up and take note of what those who have had impressive finishes say.

For me, past performance is very much a measure of someone's ability in this game.

I'd agree. In addition, I look for consistent results over a number of years. The way the game is, anyone can have a year when things go well every week. In a player pool of 2.5m, there will be players every year that will finish way higher than they should. That's just the way the game is. The following year, they drop back into the pack.

If a player is getting into the top 50,000 or so every year, I would rank them higher as an FPL player that those players who had one finish in the top 5,000 and then has 4 finishes in the top 500,000 in other years.

cathalio11

FutureGuy wrote: »

Thanks for the mention, but this thread is essentially KevIRL's brainchild and I think we are lucky to have so many good players on here. In addition, and this is crucial, we have alot of players who are looking to improve and are actively trying to do so by asking questions and respecting the answers being given.

Haha, guess he deserves his mention too. And the chap who keeps mentioning that Hull defender! KevIRL doesn't have a nice and flashy avatar though so it's harder to notice :pac:

Personally, I've lost interest at some point each season. But this season, thanks to this forum, I've quickly picked up some vital tips and it's helping already. Will be a fun long season.

Plus I pumped 20 quid into the pay league so I'm bound to the site now.

Mr.Prodston

cathalio11 wrote: »

Haha, guess he deserves his mention too. And the chap who keeps mentioning that Hull defender! KevIRL doesn't have a nice and flashy avatar though so it's harder to notice :pac:

Personally, I've lost interest at some point each season. But this season, thanks to this forum, I've quickly picked up some vital tips and it's helping already. Will be a fun long season.

Plus I pumped 20 quid into the pay league so I'm bound to the site now.

I shall remain dignified in relation to that comment :pac:

However I must stress I'm not in the same league as some of the big guns mentioned but because of the forum I'm improving and appreciating the nuances of the game more than ever before.

moreau

Great stuff guys

I did a quick (could be small errors) tot up there over lunch on first two GW for this year and last:


2012-2013 20 games 55 goals 13 CS
2013-2014 21 games 45 goals 16 CS

Much smaller difference than I thought tbh

Interesting comment by FutureGuy on accepting and adapting. Yes I am going try and adapt but if this becomes too annoying and unenjoyable I will jack it in! And believe me I love the game, won private league last year and finished <1500 worldwide, in which this forum had a huge part to play.

Showing my age here but as a comparison I used to play Championship Manager 2 and absolutely loved it. Then they changed the style of the new game, in terms of unnecessary complexity etc. and I just did not get into it and stopped playing. This is a game at the end of the day.

It's going to be a bit of a wait and see for me but this BPS is making us look at defenders and as result formations, captaincy, everything in a whole new light. As has been frequently said it is a 'game changer', and as my football manager comparison above, if it has changed too much for my liking and enjoyment, I will simply stop playing it.

kennyb3

5 defenders for me next week, midfielders not getting a look in. Look at the highest point scores on the transfer pages - and thats before all the bps are added.

Mr.Prodston

If I end up doing nothing better later I may attempt to recap the BPS like I did last week. No promises though :pac: