Daniel Bryan Thread

Blue_Dabadee

Monokne wrote: »

Impact was doing 0.7 - 1.1 the entire year of 2006 and there was no change when Kurt came in.

By what metric was Kurt Angle a bigger star in TNA than WWE? About 30% as many people saw him there, and about 15% as many people saw his PPV matches.

You could make the point he did some of his best work in TNA - which he absolutely did. However TNA as it exists now cannot provide the platform for those type of moments anymore. Other than the UK crowds, which themselves have been dwindling, TNA shows play before small crowds of relatively disinterested punters and their show is produced much more cheaply. It has had the stench of a dying promotion since summer 2014.

I think ya said that Daniel Bryan should retire if wants to settle down and have a family. Some of stars in TNA are able to see their spouse and their kids that since they have a lighter schedule.

Kurt Angle did a lot of great things for TNA in grand scheme of things.

Blue_Dabadee

gimmick wrote: »

No he didn't. He main evented Wrestlemania and had huge feuds with HHH, Rock, Austin, Benoit, Jericho and Vince. I would have said that Kurt between 2000-2005 was a legit draw. He went to TNA and while he was their "Franchise" man for much of his stay, you can hardly say his career reached even close to the heights of his WWE run.

Unless you are talking in relative terms, but even then he was a big fish in a small pond in TNA.

I think what I was trying to say that he added a lot more to his wrestling resume by jumping ships to TNA.

riffmongous

Monokne wrote: »

Luckily there has to be a less than 50% chance TNA is still around when his contract runs out in 2018.

2018? Are such long contracts common in wrestling?

Blue_Dabadee

I don't think anyone put the blame on TNA for having problems trying to secure TV contracts. Even WWE shows like NXT, Main Event and Superstars struggled to stay long term on their original tv stations.

Stereomaniac

If they loaded the Network even more and actually gave meaning to shows like Superstars and Main Event they could be a lot better off financially. A little would go a long way there too.

Blue_Dabadee

I just think there is 1-10% chance of Daniel Bryan ever wrestling in WWE and that all of this talk about WWE not clearing him is just a work.

I would not be bothered if he decided to announce his retirement tomorrow, because he had a great career and not doubt he will go into HOF some day.

Monokne

riffmongous wrote: »

2018? Are such long contracts common in wrestling?

Long term contracts for key guys aren't uncommon.

Guys like Orton, Cena, Henry and Show have had 10 year deals at times at times. I assume Bryan reupped in the summer of 2013 for 5 years after his initial 3 years from summer 2010 lapsed.

Stereomaniac

They'll definitely have him as a headliner at the Hall Of Fame ceremony some year, I think. But he is/was definitely hurt and it wouldn't make any sense for them to just hold back.

Monokne

mxph3 wrote: »

I don't think anyone put the blame on TNA for having problems trying to secure TV contracts. Even WWE shows like NXT, Main Event and Superstars struggled to stay long term on their original tv stations.

I presume you haven't been following the story with TNA closely at all in the past few years?

Spike cancelled them when they were doing ratings above the station average largely because they were tired of doing business with TNA. In specific, Spike was insistent in 2013 that Vince Russo not be involved with the company at all. Russo outed himself by sending an email intended for Mike Tenay to Mike Johnson of PWInsider. The email contained production notes for an Impact episode, proving he was in fact working there in secret after Spike had asked Dixie specifically not to work with Russo.

After they left Spike and went to Destination America, they were publically critical of Spike for "not supporting" them. This after Spike had footed the bill for live tapings a bunch of times, tried the Monday night experiment at their request, and even bought advertisements in times square, NYC to hype Hogans debut.

Destination America quickly soured on the deal because they could not sell ads on TNA programming for love nor money. They cancelled a bunch of TNA programming very quickly. Dixie, in her infinite wisdom, decided to send an email in which she buried the head of Destination America, and called him an idiot. Much like Russo, however, she sent it to the wrong recipient. She sent it to the head of Destination America himself. DA quickly decided they didn't want to be in the TNA business either, and opted out of the deal.

Dave Meltzer wrote in the Observer recently that he'd had a conversation with a head of a TV network which would ordinarily have held some interest in carrying wrestling programming, who specifically noted to him that within the industry, it was known that TNA were terrible people to deal with.

So I'd disagree vehemently. TNA are where they are because of their own arrogance and disorganization.

Monokne

Stereomaniac wrote: »

They'll definitely have him as a headliner at the Hall Of Fame ceremony some year, I think. But he is/was definitely hurt and it wouldn't make any sense for them to just hold back.

I agree.

I think that the fan perception of "it's a work, he's fine" is indicative of another time and place. In 2016, this stuff isn't a joke. The guy got badly concussed and has a history of concussions, and WWE's head of medical is on the record as saying he doesn't feel Bryan should be cleared to wrestle. It wasn't a work when it happened with Christian or Foley, and it isn't a work now.

Could there come a time when he is cleared? Maybe. I don't know. I hope so. But it's not now and it's not soon.

Stereomaniac

Maybe. No one really knows for sure. If Shawn Michaels was able to get back in the ring after 4 years away when people seemed to think he was done forever, I guess anything is possible. But this idea that the whole thing has been a work or that they're holding him off because they don't want him to tamper with Roman Reigns' push is not a sound one. WWE know the amount of money Daniel Bryan brings to the table in terms of merchandise for one.

Loughc

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Maybe. No one really knows for sure. If Shawn Michaels was able to get back in the ring after 4 years away when people seemed to think he was done forever, I guess anything is possible.

There's a big difference between a back injury and several serious concussions.

Stereomaniac

Yeah, I know. They're two totally different parts of the body sure. Both are quite serious things.

Loughc

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Yeah, I know. They're two totally different parts of the body sure. Both are quite serious things.

But with the more recent focus on concussions in sports, there's no way WWE will risk furthering injuring/damaging his brain.

Blue_Dabadee

Monokne wrote: »

I presume you haven't been following the story with closely at all in the past few year?

STpike cancelled them when they were doing ratings above the station average largely because they were tired of doing business with TNA. In specific, Spike was insistent in 2013 that Vince Russo not be involved with the company at all. Russo outed himself by sending an email intended for Mike Tenay to Mike Johnson of PWInsider. The email contained production notes for an Impact episode, proving he was in fact working there in secret after Spike had asked Dixie specifically not to work with Russo.

After they left Spike and went to Destination America, they were publically critical of Spike for "not supporting" them. This after Spike had footed the bill for live tapings a bunch of times, tried the Monday night experiment at their request, and even bought advertisements in times square, NYC to hype Hogans debut.

Destination America quickly soured on the deal because they could not sell ads on TNA programming for love nor money. They cancelled a bunch of TNA programming very quickly. Dixie, in her infinite wisdom, decided to send an email in which she buried the head of Destination America, and called him an idiot. Much like Russo, however, she sent it to the wrong recipient. She sent it to the head of Destination America himself. DA quickly decided they didn't want to be in the TNA business either, and opted out of the deal.

Dave Meltzer wrote in the Observer recently that he'd had a conversation with a head of a TV network which would ordinarily have held some interest in carrying wrestling programming, who specifically noted to him that within the industry, it was known that TNA were terrible people to deal with.

So I'd disagree vehemently. TNA are where they are because of their own arrogance and disorganization.

Yeah I rarely follow what is said on the dirtsheets. I just don't like the attitude when a wrestling fan suggests that a wrestling company like TNA should die and to be honest people have been that way since they first open their doors.

Monokne

I think perhaps you're taking what I'm writing and projecting what you've read elsewhere. I don't inherently wish TNA would go out of business. It's a positive in the sense it gives guys a place to work.

However, I do think it would be very sad for Bryan to end up working there. It's a dreadful environment for the guys to work in. I'd rather he retire gracefully than cluster**** to a symphony of silence on POP TV for a year or two.

Bounty Hunter

were going very off topic in the DB thread here but I would never wish TNA died but them being replaced by another company (looked like GFW were doing this almsot) i'd be ok with as an alternative to WWE wrestling company of a decent size with a roster like thiers which is not run by people who have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot would be nice thing to have.

With regards to Bryan I don't think anyone (at least not the vast vast majority) really think I'ts a work. That is more so just wish fill thinking from the fantasy bookers within us all, in as much as wouldn't you mark our so much if they got a 3rd opinion on him and he was cleared but they decided to hold off till the rumble for a surprise return which sees him win the Rumble match upon his return..."YES, YES, YES"

Blue_Dabadee

The thing is though he keeps suggesting that WWE aren't allowing him to be cleared. Why can't he just do something about it like either retire if they strongely suggest for him to retire or just ask for his release if he is unhappy that WWE aren't clearing him to wrestle?

Monokne

We are going in circles, but to be clear - as long as WWE pays him his downside guarantee, they can sit him at home for the remainder of his deal. If he 'retires' that doesn't void his deal. Certainly he can ask for his release, and I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility he gets it, but I do think it's very unlikely. It's worth the money to them for him not to go elsewhere, and he's not the type to rock the boat, particularly with his wife working there.

Blue_Dabadee

Some other people online have suggested that he could change his style to more mat based wrestling, which means he could be less prone to injury in the future. But, Daniel Bryan will probably never change his style of wrestling according to people who have have read his book.

Stereomaniac

Loughc wrote: »

But with the more recent focus on concussions in sports, there's no way WWE will risk furthering injuring/damaging his brain.

For sure. All I'm saying is, never say never in professional wrestling. People often talk about Steve Austin doing a match, or Kurt Angle having another run possibly.

Monokne

mxph3 wrote: »

Some other people online have suggested that he could change his style to more mat based wrestling, which means he could be less prone to injury in the future. But, Daniel Bryan will probably never change his style of wrestling according to people who have have read his book.

Having read the book I'd agree with that.

gnfnrhead

Monokne wrote: »

I presume you haven't been following the story with TNA closely at all in the past few years?

Spike cancelled them when they were doing ratings above the station average largely because they were tired of doing business with TNA. In specific, Spike was insistent in 2013 that Vince Russo not be involved with the company at all. Russo outed himself by sending an email intended for Mike Tenay to Mike Johnson of PWInsider. The email contained production notes for an Impact episode, proving he was in fact working there in secret after Spike had asked Dixie specifically not to work with Russo.

After they left Spike and went to Destination America, they were publically critical of Spike for "not supporting" them. This after Spike had footed the bill for live tapings a bunch of times, tried the Monday night experiment at their request, and even bought advertisements in times square, NYC to hype Hogans debut.

Destination America quickly soured on the deal because they could not sell ads on TNA programming for love nor money. They cancelled a bunch of TNA programming very quickly. Dixie, in her infinite wisdom, decided to send an email in which she buried the head of Destination America, and called him an idiot. Much like Russo, however, she sent it to the wrong recipient. She sent it to the head of Destination America himself. DA quickly decided they didn't want to be in the TNA business either, and opted out of the deal.

Dave Meltzer wrote in the Observer recently that he'd had a conversation with a head of a TV network which would ordinarily have held some interest in carrying wrestling programming, who specifically noted to him that within the industry, it was known that TNA were terrible people to deal with.

So I'd disagree vehemently. TNA are where they are because of their own arrogance and disorganization.

I think you've taken some fan theories as facts with some points here.

Someone (don't know who) from Spike was questioned after splitting with TNA and they stated the network didn't care about Russo and him being involved had nothing to do with the decision to part ways. At the end of the day, why would they care if the ratings were still strong? Also needs to be pointed out that Spike allowed TNA to remain on the air until they found a new network. If they were upset with TNA, why would they have done that? They could have cancelled them and kicked them straight away.

Dixie has stated (JR's podcast) something along the lines of they were happy with Spike but both sides felt it was time for a change. Almost definitely a PR spin, but also the opposite of being critical towards the network. Spike didn't renew TNA because they were too expensive for only two hours a week. The same money could be spent on five or six other shows that would fill more time and add up to the same amount of viewers.

Destination America soured on the deal when despite being a much smaller network, TNA didn't bring in over a million viewers each week. All the early talk was positive about helping the company grow but once it became obvious the numbers weren't going to match Spike's, their attitude quickly changed. It was after this that DA went and put ROH on the air without even telling TNA first. TNA were advertising other DA shows the entire time. If they weren't happy, they wouldn't have done that.

TNA are anything but blameless in all of this, but a lot of the most common stories that are touted (remember tout? :pac:) aren't accurate and conviently ignore important aspects that don't make TNA look incompetitant. A large portion of the IWC will ignore a positive in favour of a negative when it comes to TNA which makes the story become twisted.

No clue how to turn this back on topic so I won't even try and tie them together.

Blue_Dabadee

Well that is the thing that he won't change his style, but if he did he would able to continue without fear of being injury prone all the time. It is not like he is Edge whereby it be too risky for him to take another bump again.

Stereomaniac

I don't think any of us really know what condition he is actually in. But it must be bad if we haven't seen him in this length of time. He should just tone it down if he ever comes back.

A Primal Nut

No chance of Daniel Bryan going to TNA. If he leaves WWE and still wants to wrestle he'll either go back to the indie scene or Japan where he can make a ton more money.

Itssoeasy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

No chance of Daniel Bryan going to TNA. If he leaves WWE and still wants to wrestle he'll either go back to the indie scene or Japan where he can make a ton more money.

Sod the money if the issues that are preventing him from being cleared by wwe are that serious he could hurt himself badly.

A Primal Nut

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sod the money if the issues that are preventing him from being cleared by wwe are that serious he could hurt himself badly.

Yeah I know, I'm just saying if he leaves WWE and does wrestle again he's unlikely to go to TNA.

Stereomaniac

None of us really know what's likely to happen though. He could just as easily stay with WWE.

Monokne

Update on Daniel Bryan in the Observer:

Bryan wrote, “Can WWE clear me already,” which some believe to be in response to the news that Shinsuke Nakamura was coming. My impression is it’s more an overriding thing of just wanting to wrestle after being off for so long. Bryan has talked about dream matches in his own mind including possible matches with Lesnar and Nakamura. Regarding his situation, what we know is that as of today there are no plans for him to make a secret return at the Rumble or Mania and it’s not like they are holding him off until a certain date. It’s all an issue of being cleared by Dr. Joseph Maroon, who is WWE’s head of medical and that hasn’t happened yet, and then it being okayed by Vince McMahon. While obviously the issues are a lot more complicated, at the end of the day, that’s where it stands today. If Maroon gives the okay, Vince McMahon likely would as well but the idea is that there’s some hidden story that they are either punishing him, or afraid to use him because he’ll get over more than Roman Reigns, right now neither is true. It is unlikely he will be cleared at this point, although the door is not shut on it happening.

But there is no conspiracy theory on this one.

I wouldn't get your hopes up, unfortunately lads.