Clare v Cork All Ireland Senior Hurling Final

angelfire9

Well lads the semis are over the final pairing is now up for discussion
Will Clare's young guns do it or will the experience and tradition in Cork bring the Rebels over the line?

Personally I reckon it will be a tight tight game
Cork won't miss frees like Limerick did on Sunday, they have already shown they can deal with Tony Kelly so they are deservedly favourites
I'll be still backing the banner to do it though
If the lads get through the U21 game on Saturday with a win and without injuries I think they will be hard to beat in September the winning streak will give them confidence that will carry forward

Should be a cracker of a game and hopefully no red cards to ruin it!

omega666

I don't think it will be close. If Cork play anything like they did against Dublin they will win by a country mile.

premierstone

omega666 wrote: »

I don't think it will be close. If Cork play anything like they did against Dublin they will win by a country mile.

Not a hope the final will even resemble the Cork/Dublin semi, it will be a completely differnet game, Clare's performance on Sunday was every bit as impressive as Cork's against Dublin, just different, it wasn't as free flowing and open as Corks but on the opposite side the defending was tighter and more aggressive and they played with ferocious passion and no little skill.

It's an intriguing battle really even the contrast between managers is striking, the young passionate 'mad' pretender against the older genius and gent JBM.

The OP mentions Cork's experience as a factor?? They have no experience at all and both squads will be in the same both in this regard. Murphy v Kelly and Midfield will be crucial IMO Kearney and McLoughlin have been outstanding as have Clares pair ( the names change but the quality hasn't) and also the two FF v FB battles will be massive, horgan is on fire and Honan is a handfull for anyone IMO neither teams have a natural FB, despite McInerney's fine game Sunday.

InchicoreDude

premierstone wrote: »

Not a hope the final will even resemble the Cork/Dublin semi, it will be a completely differnet game, Clare's performance on Sunday was every bit as impressive as Cork's against Dublin, just different, it wasn't as free flowing and open as Corks but on the opposite side the defending was tighter and more aggressive and they played with ferocious passion and no little skill.

It's an intriguing battle really even the contrast between managers is striking, the young passionate 'mad' pretender against the older genius and gent JBM.

The OP mentions Cork's experience as a factor?? They have no experience at all and both squads will be in the same both in this regard. Murphy v Kelly and Midfield will be crucial IMO Kearney and McLoughlin have been outstanding as have Clares pair ( the names change but the quality hasn't) and also the two FF v FB battles will be massive, horgan is on fire and Honan is a handfull for anyone IMO neither teams have a natural FB, despite McInerney's fine game Sunday.

In fairness, they do have Tom Kenny who seems to have been around forever. What year did he join the Cork panel?

premierstone

InchicoreDude wrote: »

In fairness, they do have Tom Kenny who seems to have been around forever. What year did he join the Cork panel?

Grand fair enough but its hardly a determining factor and I would doubt that he will see game time tbh.

Warper

I think it will benefit Clare that Cork beat them in Munster. While both teams have improved throughout the season, Clare seem to be on a steeper upward curve. The loss in Munster means that there will be no over-confidence from the Clare camp whereas there could be some in the Cork camp. Revenge is a dish best served in Croke Park on AI Final day.

Amprodude

Cork to win by 4. We will have more skill and Dave Matthews training is really standing to Cork. Clare will be hard but there are no Kilkenny.

premierstone

Amprodude wrote: »

Cork to win by 4. We will have more skill and Dave Matthews training is really standing to Cork. Clare will be hard but there are no Kilkenny.

Well tbf Kilkenny were no Kilkenny this year if you get me!

And while Matthews appears to be doing a wonderfull job, I very much doubt a fitness edge against Clare should be something to pin your hopes on, htis Clare team are one of the fittest I have ever seen.

Amprodude

premierstone wrote: »

Well tbf Kilkenny were no Kilkenny this year if you get me!

And while Matthews appears to be doing a wonderfull job, I very much doubt a fitness edge against Clare should be something to pin your hopes on, htis Clare team are one of the fittest I have ever seen.

Skill tradition and fitness, all important attributes in tight match situations.

premierstone

Amprodude wrote: »

Skill tradition and fitness, all important attributes in tight match situations.

Tradition is the only one of those that stands up to scrutiny though.

Mouth of the South

InchicoreDude wrote: »

In fairness, they do have Tom Kenny who seems to have been around forever. What year did he join the Cork panel?

May have been on the panel in '02 but his first championship start with the hurlers was in '03 v Clare though he played championship with the footballers the year before.

niallo27

Them Clare's boys don't care about tradition. When you are 19 or 20 you don't give a **** about who you are playing and their history. These lads are used to winning. The grew up winning underage.

InchicoreDude

Mouth of the South wrote: »

May have been on the panel in '02 but his first championship start with the hurlers was in '03 v Clare though he played championship with the footballers the year before.

Wow, that early! That is a seriously impressive amount of time to be on the county panel!

Thinkstoomuch

Mouth of the South wrote: »

May have been on the panel in '02 but his first championship start with the hurlers was in '03 v Clare though he played championship with the footballers the year before.

He did not play championship with the footballers,the year before in 2002,
he played football,one game only,centre forward when limerick beat us in 2003.

Your right,in he did make hes debut for the hurlers also in 03, against clare at right half back in which he scored a point.


He has a junior all ireland football medal from 01 with cork.

angelfire9

premierstone wrote: »

The OP mentions Cork's experience as a factor??

Nope, tradition
Tradition and experience are not the same thing :rolleyes:

brilliantboy

Whatever way the final goes this Clare team have been an absolute joy to watch

The future is bright for Fitzy's Babes

Thinkstoomuch

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Wow, that early! That is a seriously impressive amount of time to be on the county panel!

A great record but if Murphy and he played for bride rovers the weekend is okay,wont and shoudnt start the final.

Hasnt the pace or athleticsim for any of the clare half forward line,nor the aerial ability to compete with Conlon.Joyce will have enough to do,without covering kenny as well.

Murphy has the expierence and pace for the clare half forwards.
If murphy isnt okay,we have no option to start kenny as stephen white hasnt the speed of hurling and is prone to poor judgement and is actually very likely to play over the edge,make a rash pull or challenge and get sent off.

He was barely on against dublin and got a a card.

If white starts,it could be an aidan fogarty pat mulchay mismatch all over again.
An intercounty hurler only at intermediate level.

Thinkstoomuch

angelfire9 wrote: »

Well lads the semis are over the final pairing is now up for discussion
Will Clare's young guns do it or will the experience and tradition in Cork bring the Rebels over the line?

Personally I reckon it will be a tight tight game
Cork won't miss frees like Limerick did on Sunday, they have already shown they can deal with Tony Kelly so they are deservedly favourites
I'll be still backing the banner to do it though
If the lads get through the U21 game on Saturday with a win and without injuries I think they will be hard to beat in September the winning streak will give them confidence that will carry forward

Should be a cracker of a game and hopefully no red cards to ruin it!

Expierence of Cork?

Cork are a young team,and while Nash was around in 2006, he never played like shane o neill either.

Murphy is the only all ireland senior medal winner with cork that will start,if he does then kenny wont,if he doesnt probaly kenny will,which still equates to one.

Cork have no expierence of all ireland success at underage ,clare are littered with them.

Cork team is slighty older than clare but very young.Cronin and horgan have been around a few years,but expierence of all ireland finals they dont have.

Mcdonnell and mcloughlin have minor final expierence from 2007 but lost.

A lot of clare lads played in three underage finals winning two ,beating kilkenny twice,and the one they lost,was to kilkenny in a minor final to a highly rated kk team,that they could have won.

Tradition wont have much to do with it,from corks view,as unlike 99,when cusacks mantra was we are Cork,that team had a minor ,and two all ireland u21 titles,with a senior league title the year before that it meant something and gave them the edge.

They feared no one.Clare have that advantage,as their youngsters were fed on a diet,where success was the main ingredient.

This final is more about a contrast in styles and personnaell.It could be a classic,but wont be toe for toe like cork and dublin.Clare will shut down,close off space,where cork will try to create and exploit space.

Amprodude

Warper wrote: »

no over-confidence from the Clare camp whereas there could be some in the Cork camp. Revenge is a dish best served in Croke Park on AI Final day.

Cork will not be overconfident. We know what to expect from Clare. They will come out all guns blazing, but so will Cork. Cork will see this as an opportunity to bury Clare again. Personally I feel Clare will have more to worry about than Cork in final.

niallo27

Amprodude wrote: »

Cork will not be overconfident. We know what to expect from Clare. They will come out all guns blazing, but so will Cork. Cork will see this as an opportunity to bury Clare again. Personally I feel Clare will have more to worry about than Cork in final.

What else have they to worry about. Are cork teaming up with someone or what.

Clareman

Neither team will be confident or feel themselves to be favourites, should be a great battle, I would guess that the bookies will have Cork favourites cause of the first game.

For me the I think Clare will win it (saffron and blue glasses again), I think the last game wasn't a true reflection between the 2 teams, Conlon going off was a massive loss, Clare missed ~5 goal chances and Cork played had their best performance of the year while Clare had their second worst (worst being against Tipp i the last round of the league). I think Clare's sweeper system is well suited for a team who has a target for their forwards.

It should be a great final and there won't be much between the 2 teams, I think the first 15 minutes will be critical for both teams, whoever copes best with the pressure of playing in and All Ireland final will have a massive advantage. The game could come down to a mistake or a ref's decision.

Oh yeah, if anyone wants to be nice to their favourite mod I'll take any tickets that are going

Thinkstoomuch

Amprodude wrote: »

Cork will not be overconfident. We know what to expect from Clare. They will come out all guns blazing, but so will Cork. Cork will see this as an opportunity to bury Clare again. Personally I feel Clare will have more to worry about than Cork in final.

I c your point buts it important cork dont turn in to limerick,believe their own hype and loose the run of ourselves.

As shown,when limerick thought they were invincible,it came back to haunt them.They thought clare were beaten,just turn up,and even someone posted they were glad to have cork in the final ,they thought they had the all ireland in the bag.This 40 year annivearsy was like faith,their name was on the cup,the media were saying.What rubbish.Sum lad even posted,tobin to get three goals against clare,as if it was as easy as buying a bag of sweets.The same guy hasn't been seen since.


Cork got to live in the moment and be very careful.This clare team will test cork ,even more so than any other game so far.

Unlike kk.they have pace to burn,not the same clare we met in june,wont go toe to toe like dublin did and will play seven at the back like galway last year ,and unlike limerick have a natural full forward and scoring half forward line.

Now we have Harnedy flying,cronin back, and cork have confidence in the game plan and the bench is stronger than june.

Its important to remember how far we came in a short time,but we have a huge weakness at fullback.That has been a problem that has beem their all year,and now in honan we have to solve it.

I dont think shane o neill will fare much better on him,he struggled under the high ball against galway in the leauge,in cyril donnellan,fault for two goals and david tracey suited him.

But he is now out of poisition against honan,we have a problem.The county final last year,cussen caused him endless problems.

Cussen wouldnt tie honan shoe laces,hes not a patch on himThe only think honan and cussen have in cork,is both their mothers are from cork.

What we done to clare in june is irrelavant.As cork and kerry proved,munster and all ireland are worlds apart.

Clare will be a huge and different test now.Before the june game,clare had trained four days in a row in the savage heat,they trained in the gaelic grounds a week before cork,and it was meant to have been a dreadful session.They were wrecked.


Davy wont make the same mistake twice,and with the u21 game saturday,they will taper off for the final.

After the waterford game ,in june,when davy was interviewed ,he looked nervous ,and said to beat cork 3 times in a row was sum ask.Its like and unlike him,he believed that the law of averages was with cork.
We fully deserved to win on the day,but he will now like last sunday fully believe ,and they have the revenge factor they can win.


Jbm will have us believing the same.But we shoudnt get carried away on beating them once,each game has a new life.

We could win,but could loose.It is vitally important,win or loose we get a huge homecoming the monday night,as jbm and the team have done unbeleivable to get this far.
We must keep our feet on the ground,amid the expectation and hype etc.Enjoy the build up,but fans shoudnt loose focus.

A reporter last week in the cork paper,wrote a stupid artictle,saying we had liam mac won already ,as it was JBM MAGIC,before we even knew who we played.

How in the name of jesus that was printed was beyond logic.

Just cause JBM won in 99,he assumed we would do the same far earlier.

Limerick presumed ,40 years on faith would deliver them an allirealand,according to some.

Cork need to forget all that nonense,don't believe it,and like Munster rubgy,control what you can yourself.

Cork have to earn the win,and it wont be a walk in the park.

Warper

Amprodude wrote: »

Cork will not be overconfident. We know what to expect from Clare. They will come out all guns blazing, but so will Cork. Cork will see this as an opportunity to bury Clare again. Personally I feel Clare will have more to worry about than Cork in final.

I love irony

Amprodude

Warper wrote: »

I love irony

Senior level is a big step up from U21 success. Just ask our Footballers about it. Its good to win underage but Galway have been doing this for ages and have had lack of success at Senior Level. Whoever is the better team, wastes less opportunites in front of the posts will win this. Tactics alone and playing 7 players in defence may not stop Cork. They are well capable.of shooting from long range. Then Clare will need a plan B. Its going to be a good gsme.

Rightwing

I wonder will Clare bring much support to the final? They didn't have many at the semi, but it didn't stop them from playing well anyway.

Amprodude

niallo27 wrote: »

What else have they to worry about. Are cork teaming up with someone or what.

Well Clare may be worrying about loosing all their puckouts. The game Dublin gave Cork will stand to them. Hard to know how good Clare were with Limerick playing so bad. Cork wont be as bad.

Amprodude

niallo27 wrote: »

What else have they to worry about. Are cork teaming up with someone or what.

Well Clare may be worrying about loosing all their puckouts. The game Dublin gave Cork will stand to them. Hard to know how good Clare were with Limerick playing so bad. Cork wont be as bad.

Thinkstoomuch

Amprodude wrote: »

Senior level is a big step up from U21 success. Just ask our Footballers about it. Its good to win underage but Galway have been doing this for ages and have had lack of success at Senior Level. Whoever is the better team, wastes less opportunites in front of the posts will win this. Tactics alone and playing 7 players in defence may not stop Cork. They are well capable.of shooting from long range. Then Clare will need a plan B. Its going to be a good gsme.

I agree underage doesnt always guarantee success but it helps in the right system and if continuity is kept when you win it helps greatly.

Cork footballers u21 never had a chance to develop under counihan the great mastermind.When your young,you have talent,but your developing ,you cant if you have guy like cork had that was out of hes depth,and could not improve the players.

Take the minors cork hurlers won in 95,under Jbm..They won in 99 again under Jbm as they had proper coach who helped bring contiunity,and they believed in him.

The clare u21s are a different breed to most,in that they have coaches and management involved since minor in 09,to u21 and the likes of gerry o connor and donal moloney were minor managers,then to u21.

Paul kinnerk coached their minors to munster titles in 2010 and 2011 and then took over the u21 teams and then with the seniors now.When davy came in,he was the fresh voice,but still a lot of clares younger guys were familar with Kinnerek.

A smooth transition has helped them ,where they have played the same system at under age now up to senior .They have a refined system and believe in it.

Unlike cork we have no continuity or link in style from the minors and u21 to senior as thexm dont even have a game plan in the first place ,until they reach senior.

Like ger cunnigham should be u21 manager next season,and build the same system ,and philosophy at senior that Jbm wants and blood those players suited to it.But the county board wont do that.

Evil_Clown

Apologies for going off topic and I don't want to be pedantic but I have to at this stage because this is driving me nuts :P, the difference between 'loose' and 'lose'.

I hope we don't lose the match.
My shoelace is loose.

http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/loose_lose.htm

premierstone

angelfire9 wrote: »

Well lads the semis are over the final pairing is now up for discussion
Will Clare's young guns do it or will the experience and tradition in Cork bring the Rebels over the line?

premierstone wrote: »

The OP mentions Cork's experience as a factor?? They have no experience at all and both squads will be in the same both in this regard.

angelfire9 wrote: »

Nope, tradition
Tradition and experience are not the same thing :rolleyes:

At least read your own posts before contradicting mine and throwing out the smiley faces

Rightwing

I expect cork to do a number on them. 6+ points. A handy AI for Cork.