Bog cutting this week.

MadsL

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0817/468699-turf-cutting/

So not content with breaking EU law turfcutters are blockading the roads as well.

Frankly, given a well publicised plan to break the law next weekend, isn't it time that we stopped this nonsense and sent the IDF in to confiscate this machinery and end this embarrassment? I cannot fathom why it is being given the kid gloves treatment.

Nodin

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0817/468699-turf-cutting/

So not content with breaking EU law turfcutters are blockading the roads as well.

Frankly, given a well publicised plan to break the law next weekend, isn't it time that we stopped this nonsense and sent the IDF in to confiscate this machinery and end this embarrassment? I cannot fathom why it is being given the kid gloves treatment.

No, they'll only use it to steal Palestinian turf.

Dostoevsky

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0817/468699-turf-cutting/

So not content with breaking EU law turfcutters are blockading the roads as well.

Frankly, given a well publicised plan to break the law next weekend, isn't it time that we stopped this nonsense and sent the IDF in to confiscate this machinery and end this embarrassment? I cannot fathom why it is being given the kid gloves treatment.

Incredible that this nonsense is still going on. Ethically, the cutters and their massive modern machines protecting so-called "traditional" rights to use that machinery to cut endangered bogland haven't a leg to stand on here.

MadsL

Nodin wrote: »

No, they'll only use it to steal Palestinian turf.

Very good.

Perhaps we could borrow Mossad for a week though...

Nodin

MadsL wrote: »

Very good.

Perhaps we could borrow Mossad for a week though...

Mossod would be more qualified.

MadsL

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Incredible that this nonsense is still going on. Ethically, the cutters and their massive modern machines protecting so-called "traditional" rights to use that machinery to cut endangered bogland haven't a leg to stand on here.

What I find more incredible is Gardai sitting there and doing nothing.

Shell protesters acting within the law batoned to fu.ck and arrested. Turf cutters "observed".

WTF?

guinnessdrinker

Seems a bit over the top to send the Israeli army into the bogs!!!

MadsL

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Seems a bit over the top to send the Israeli army into the bogs!!!

Yes, we have done that joke thanks.

MidlandsM

Like the traveller argument - "it's their culture"

MadsL

MidlandsM wrote: »

Like the traveller argument - "it's their culture"

Blockading roads?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0817/468699-turf-cutting/

So not content with breaking EU law turfcutters are blockading the roads as well.

Frankly, given a well publicised plan to break the law next weekend, isn't it time that we stopped this nonsense and sent the IDF in to confiscate this machinery and end this embarrassment? I cannot fathom why it is being given the kid gloves treatment.

I'm not sure we can use the IDF like that and we shouldn't need to, just send in the Gardai and let them do their job.

MadsL

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

I'm not sure we can use the IDF like that and we shouldn't need to, just send in the Gardai and let them do their job.

But the Gardai are already there.

There would be a fair amount of firearms available in rural areas, could turn nasty...

Sir Humphrey Appleby

MadsL wrote: »

What I find more incredible is Gardai sitting there and doing nothing.

Shell protesters acting within the law batoned to fu.ck and arrested. Turf cutters "observed".

WTF?

Really, if you have evidence of that bring it to the GOC.

mikom

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0817/468699-turf-cutting/

So not content with breaking EU law turfcutters are blockading the roads as well.

Frankly, given a well publicised plan to break the law next weekend, isn't it time that we stopped this nonsense and sent the IDF in to confiscate this machinery and end this embarrassment? I cannot fathom why it is being given the kid gloves treatment.

I've mine home anyways.
A shed full of it.

anncoates

If one of them was actually arrested, they'd probably briquette.

mikom

anncoates wrote: »

If one of them was actually arrested, they'd probably briquette.

Sods law.

MadsL

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Really, if you have evidence of that bring it to the GOC.

Did you miss this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNM3aH323zw

A slightly different tactic by Gardai when a road is blocked huh?

Conmaicne Mara

Fair play to them.

Gatling

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Seems a bit over the top to send the Israeli army into the bogs!!!

They need the target practice

anncoates

Would Board o' Moaners pun be disgracefully scraping the barrel?

MadsL

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Fair play to them.

For breaking the law? Why do you feel Irish taxpayers should have to pay for their machine harvested turf?

Dr Turk Turkelton

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Seems a bit over the top to send the Israeli army into the bogs!!!

I'd say we wouldn't have any problems re-occupying our bogs from the land grabbers either!

Sir Humphrey Appleby

MadsL wrote: »

Did you miss this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNM3aH323zw

A slightly different tactic by Gardai when a road is blocked huh?

Gardai warned those involved in illegal activity to desist, when the warning was ignored they did there job.
Nothing in that video matches your earlier description of it.
They should do exactly the same with the turf warriors.

MadsL

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Gardai warned those involved in illegal activity to desist, when the warning was ignored they did there job.
Nothing in that video matches your earlier description of it.
They should do exactly the same with the turf warriors.

Was really the point I was making...lets not derail into discussion of how legal the Gardai tactics were there. The bogcutters are breaking the law, and publicising the fact very loudly.

mikom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK5791FtJ2g

end of the road

MadsL wrote: »

For breaking the law? Why do you feel Irish taxpayers should have to pay for their machine harvested turf?

its their job, as part of the big society

Jester252

They where giving 10 years notice of the new law and they where/are been given new plot and/or money to compensate them. Not happy with that they are braking the law and costing the average Irish taxpayer more money along with blocking roads. Now its time to put the foot down and take the hard line with them. Jail and fines for all involved if that doesn't put them off remove any compensation that they will get/got. Too many people are costing Ireland money with their greed.
Granted now people who support them will more or likely pull a like about culture or bankers.

MadsL

end of the road wrote: »

its their job, as part of the big society

What about the big society we joined up to called the EU and the much bigger society called the Earth?

Will we just randomly choose not to protect one type of environment?

dxhound2005

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Seems a bit over the top to send the Israeli army into the bogs!!!

Am I the only one that thought it was Irish Defence Forces? They're on the list.

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/IDF

end of the road

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Gardai warned those involved in illegal activity to desist

no they didn't

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

when the warning was ignored they did there job.

no, they violently brutalised those people.

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

They should do exactly the same with the turf warriors.

and when they do our boys on the bogs should do whatever needs to be done to both protect themselves from brutal violence and allow them to get on with cutting a vital source of cheep fuel

Sir Humphrey Appleby

MadsL wrote: »

Was really the point I was making...lets not derail into discussion of how legal the Gardai tactics were there. The bogcutters are breaking the law, and publicising the fact very loudly.

Agreed

MadsL

end of the road wrote: »

a vital source of cheep fuel

You mean cheaper than the free fuel they can get by stopping cutting?

Please explain, this sounds fascinating, I'd love to know where they get the free diesel and machinery. Sounds much cheaper than the Govt delivering free bags of compensatory turf for 15 years.

NuckingFacker

MadsL wrote: »

Did you miss this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNM3aH323zw

A slightly different tactic by Gardai when a road is blocked huh?

Loads of my neighbours are turf cutters. They're quite hardy men. I just can't see the gards baton charging them. You'd want your head examined. A bunch of slightly hippyish protesters is one thing. A load of lads whos idea of an easy evening is changing the pumps on a track machine, good luck with that.

Also, they're all pretty well-off. If a Gard clonked them on the head with a stick, they'd spend the next ten years sueing them for various reasons in front of a largely sympathetic judge with assorted barristers in tow. Pillar of the community assaulted by uppity Gard.. jasus, the local rag would love that story. There's people you can clonk with a baton, and people you can't. Simple as. Also, pints down the pub would be akward if one lad had spent the day hitting the other lad with a stick..

mikom

MadsL wrote: »

What about the big society we joined up to called the EU and the much bigger society called the Earth?

Will we just randomly choose not to protect one type of environment?

*Posts on damage to the earth
Location, Vegas, having flown there.

There's no way around the fact that flights are bad news for the environment. It's not just that planes are worse than most other forms of transport in terms of the impact of greenhouse gases per passenger mile. Just as important is the simple fact that flying allows us to travel a far greater number of miles than we otherwise could. Thanks to these two factors, individual trips by air can have a remarkably large carbon footprint – which helps explain why aviation has become such a heated issue in the climate change debate.

The impact of planes on the climate is complicated and not perfectly understood. The CO2 emissions are straightforward enough, but plane engines also generate a host of other "outputs", including nitrous oxide, water vapour and soot. At flying altitudes in the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere, these outputs produce a range of climatic effects, multiplying the plane's environmental impact. For example, nitrous oxide causes the formation of ozone — a greenhouse gas that warms the local climate — but at the same time undergoes reactions which destroy methane, thereby removing another greenhouse gas from the atmosphere.


Even more complicated is the impact of soot and water vapour, which together can cause contrails (vapour trails) and in cold air can lead to the formation of cirrus clouds. The science surrounding this topic is not yet rock solid, but researchers believe that contrails add to the greenhouse effect – especially at night, when their tendency to stop heat escaping from the Earth isn't offset by their tendency to reflect incoming sunlight.


Today, most experts favour an aviation "multiplier" of around two. In other words, they believe that the total impact of a plane is approximately twice as high as its CO2 emissions. The exact multiplier, however, will always depend on the individual plane, the local climate and the time of day.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/apr/06/aviation-q-and-a

Jets around.........

Best Value Cities in Europe

Prague and Budapest are nowhere as cheap as they used to be. Try Zagreb and Ljubljana for a similar feel for less money. ...and do stay out of the Irish bars, you are there to travel

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Easiest way from Dubrovnik to Malaga Spain

Boat?

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Travelling from Budapest-Split

Alternative: Fly to Ljubljana and get the sleeper to Split. 11-14 hours

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If you forgive the pun Split the journey - spend a day and a night in Zagreb. Wonderful city. Budapest-Déli dep 13:25 Zagreb Glavni Kolod. arr 19:46 Zagreb Glavni Kolod. dep 22:00 Sleeping-car Split Su, 04.08.13 arr 06:36

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As a Curve ball - Dresden. You get to see the devastation and the rebuild

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http://www.deutschebahn.com/en/start.html for schedules - excellent site. I did a similar trip Praha > Wein > Zagreb. Then rented a car drove up to Sarajevo and back through Mostar to Dubrovnik then back to Zagreb. Coast road up to Zagreb is awesome and the mountain road Sarajevo to Dubrovnik

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Ah the theatre of Security, wasting resources worldwide. http://www.salon.com/2012/01/04/what_do_cupcakes_and_lightsabers_have_in_common/singleton/

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Questions about multiple stopovers

Why would it spell trouble - you could certainly spend a few hours downtown for the price of a taxi ride. Miami isn't the safest downtown in the US but a taxi in to a restaurant followed by a couple of cocktails at one of the waterfront spots isn't gonna be dangerous. Get a taxi back up to the airpo

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Compare facilities, seat size and options at http://www.seatguru.com/. Also consider economy plus for your direct flight

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Glamping

For up to five people

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Bacteria-catching nasal gel/strips for airplane travel

Washing your hands regularly and keeping your hands away from your mouth is far far more effective. And you don't look like a twat

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islands near dubrovnik

Rent a car and drive up to Sarajevo if you plan to do an overnight, if not Mostar is an easy drive and strongly recommended. The drive is stunning, with the advantage of some nice waterside stops on the way for lunch. Bosnia & Herzegovina is very very pretty. Avoid Medjugorje unless very religiou

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I wish Ryanair would just weigh people rather than bags

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http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=17006&showmore=1&date_to=&date_from=&query=*%3A*&forum=37

MadsL

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Loads of my neighbours are turf cutters. They're quite hardy men. I just can't see the gards baton charging them. You'd want your head examined. A bunch of slightly hippyish protesters is one thing. A load of lads whos idea of an easy evening is changing the pumps on a track machine, good luck with that.

Also, they're all pretty well-off. If a Gard clonked them on the head with a stick, they'd spend the next ten years sueing them for various reasons in front of a largely sympathetic judge with assorted barristers in tow. Pillar of the community assaulted by uppity Gard.. jasus, the local rag would love that story. There's people you can clonk with a baton, and people you can't. Simple as.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Irish Defence Forces it is then.


Perhaps the simply expedient of helicopters and a big tank of a smell producing chemical sprayed over the drying turf would be interesting.

Oh look lads you cut it and now it smells of arse. Good luck burning that.

OpenYourEyes

mikom wrote: »

*Posts on damage to the earth
Location, Vegas, having flown there.



Jets around.........

*makes no reference to habitat destruction, which is the core issue being discussed and the reason raised bogs are protected

mikom

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

*makes no reference to habitat destruction, which is the core issue being discussed and the reason raised bogs are protected

* only opens eyes once Bord na mona have shot their load.

Guy:Incognito

I need to build a new rockery in the garden, think I'll head down to newgrange in the morning and stock up.

OpenYourEyes

mikom wrote: »

* only opens eyes once Bord na mona have shot their load.

*doesn't realise that habitats are protected based on scientific criteria - only the ones worth conserving are conserved and so privately or industrially cut bogs past a certain point are not protected because it'd be pointless - the intact or relatively functional raised bogs they had were protected, the barren wastelands they have were not because they are not a useful habitat in any way

*also doesn't realise that the least damaged Bord na Mona bogs were designated as SAC's and handed back for conservation

*doesn't realise that I know full well the damage caused by Bord na Mona

*still deflecting the discussion from reasons why illegal turfcutters should or shouldnt cut protected bogs

mikom

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I need to build a new rockery in the garden, think I'll head down to newgrange in the morning and stock up.

The stone won't tie in with your local stone, so it will look dreadfully artificial.

Overheal

Campaigners opposing the bans say they restrict their traditional right to cut turf.

And I have a natural right to take a sh*t but the time and place is not sacrosanct.

NuckingFacker

MadsL wrote: »

Thanks for the heads-up.

Irish Defence Forces it is then.


Perhaps the simply expedient of helicopters and a big tank of a smell producing chemical sprayed over the drying turf would be interesting.

Oh look lads you cut it and now it smells of arse. Good luck burning that.

It's the countryside. Everywhere smells of arse. Also, going by the neighbours, the local TD is not going to rush into anything hasty like the Army. You do get local politics right? Again, there's people you can clonk, and people you can't. It's a subtle thing, but a thing none the less. Just for clarity, I'd be a pro-cutting type. I might have mentioned that before.

NuckingFacker

Overheal wrote: »

And I have a natural right to take a sh*t but the time and place is not sacrosanct.

Speak for yourself. The seat of all learning is very sacrosanct ches facker.

MadsL

NuckingFacker wrote: »

It's the countryside. Everywhere smells of arse. Also, going by the neighbours, the local TD is not going to rush into anything hasty like the Army. You do get local politics right? Again, there's people you can clonk, and people you can't. It's a subtle thing, but a thing none the less. Just for clarity, I'd be a pro-cutting type. I might have mentioned that before.

Some people are above the law. Gotcha.

I was also thinking more along the lines of Putrescine

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

Some people are above the law. Gotcha.

I was also thinking more along the lines of Putrescine

Mads. In rural Ireland the attitude to the law is different. The is no rule of law, its whatever they consider reasonable.

I guess they don't consider his reasonable. I don't think guards would want to do this, up have to think of local politics.

Hootanany

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0817/468699-turf-cutting/

So not content with breaking EU law turfcutters are blockading the roads as well.

Frankly, given a well publicised plan to break the law next weekend, isn't it time that we stopped this nonsense and sent the IDF in to confiscate this machinery and end this embarrassment? I cannot fathom why it is being given the kid gloves treatment.

Why is the Power plant still cutting turf?

MadsL

Hootanany wrote: »

Why is the Power plant still cutting turf?

From a Special Area of Conservation?

Where?

It isn't cutting turf that is banned it is cutting turf from a Special Area of Conservation that is banned.

NuckingFacker

Hootanany wrote: »

Why is the Power plant still cutting turf?

It's all power full, it can do whatever it likes.

MadsL

clairefontaine wrote: »

Mads. In rural Ireland the attitude to the law is different. The is no rule of law, its whatever they consider reasonable.

I guess they don't consider his reasonable. I don't think guards would want to do this, up have to think of local politics.

Then all the more reason to simply direct the Army in.

Move the JCB or it gets a round from the tank.

OpenYourEyes

MadsL wrote: »

From a Special Area of Conservation?

Where?

It isn't cutting turf that is banned it is cutting turf from a Special Area of Conservation that is banned.

And just to reiterate Special Areas of Conservation were designated for bogs owned by the state, semi-state companies (i.e. Bord na Mona) and private owners.

They were designated purely on scientific grounds, choosing the intact raised bogs and the raised bogs that have been cut but that could be restored to something close to their intact level - thus, there was no bias towards any group when these sites were designated.

Jester252

MadsL wrote: »

Then all the more reason to simply direct the Army in.

Move the JCB or it gets a round from the tank.

Why not just drive through/over it and save the round for later?