Do you care about uniting Ireland?

oldyouth

fsfg wrote: »

Are you sure that's a serious question?

Anyone who suggests that a person, living in Britain, should go and live in Britain needs to clarify their position

sparky42

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

The religion of the Monarchy and PM of the UK has already been discussed at length earlier in the thread, and I agree it is archaic and dates back to the ways of a bygone era. However as another poster pointed out, this has not been seriously called into question as yet, and will most certainly be changed as soon as it is. As soon as a member of the family wishes to marry a non Anglican person is probably when. However I was not referring to the succession laws of the British Monarchy, which albeit offensive to non Anglicans, does not particularly affect the day to day lives of the British and Northern Irish people. Unlike the undue influence of Catholicism in the Irish Republic where among other things hospitals and 90% of state funded schools are run by the Catholic Church and abortion is illegal.

I was making that point to illustrate reasons why many born in Northern Ireland, particularly but not exclusively non Catholics, would prefer not to be under Irish rule. The rules regarding the marriages of British royalty have naught to do with it.

If Ireland were to ever even hope to rejoin with the North in the distant future (insurmountable economic issues aside), the most positive step in that direction would be to become a truly secular nation now and be rid of 'Rome Rule' entirely from every aspect of society where it continues to linger.

As a non Catholic (non religious) foreign National married to an Irish person and living here, I would most certainly prefer the following hypothetical scenario, where the Irish President by law must be Catholic but apart from that Catholicism has no impact at all on my life or rights, to the current reality. The Irish President dosn't have to be a Catholic by law, which is lovely and inclusive and all that, however I have no realistic choice but to send my son to a religious school, and if I were ever unfortunate enough to become pregnant via sexual violence I would have to travel to another state to obtain an abortion. I know what I'd prefer!

While you raise good and valid points about the continued presence of the Catholic Church within the Republic's day to day operations and the stupidity of our Abortion law, from memory the North has an equally repressive Abortion law and aren't the schools divided along religious lines with Protestant churches involved as well?

dublinbhoy88

fsfg wrote: »

Are you sure that's a serious question?

for immature teens it may be a serious qestion

Dr.Tank Adams

Absolutely, it's something I'd love to see. Obviously though I'd like it to be done in a proper democratic manner so as not to create more unnecessary bitterness. I think it's sort of sad the amount of people who really don't care anymore, it all seems to stem from this general antipathy that certain people in the south have always felt towards northerners, as if they are somehow less Irish or dispensable and not deserving of our attention, which is of course a complete pile of cr*p. I can imagine how frustrating it must be for northern Nationalists, feeling as if you're being rejected not only by the British but also by your own people, as I said, a pretty sad state of affairs.

Kiwi in IE

sparky42 wrote: »

While you raise good and valid points about the continued presence of the Catholic Church within the Republic's day to day operations and the stupidity of our Abortion law, from memory the North has an equally repressive Abortion law and aren't the schools divided along religious lines with Protestant churches involved as well?

Yes the schools are predominately Catholic with a Protestant one also available in most areas. Those run by the State shouldn't be either though. In a small town where there is only one school, it should be secular and cater appropriately for all families. The state continuing to sanction the separation of kids in the education system based on their parents religion is feeding into sectarian attitudes. The continued promotion of the obsession with religion only exacerbates the problem and the divisions.

sparky42

Dr.Tank Adams wrote: »

Absolutely, it's something I'd love to see. Obviously though I'd like it to be done in a proper democratic manner so as not to create more unnecessary bitterness. I think it's sort of sad the amount of people who really don't care anymore, it all seems to stem from this general antipathy that certain people in the south have always felt towards northerners, as if they are somehow less Irish or dispensable and not deserving of our attention, which is of course a complete pile of cr*p. I can imagine how frustrating it must be for northern Nationalists, feeling as if you're being rejected not only by the British but also by your own people, as I said, a pretty sad state of affairs.

It's not that, I've yet to see any Northern Nationalist who has taken on board the fact that their standard of living/employment etc relies heavily on UK funding and that the South simply can not and will never be able to support that. Until they have a political party saying, lets cut our spending/workforce, increase our taxes and balance our books internally I refuse to be told that we have face the prospect of an economic burden that makes what we have gone through look mild, simply because of flag waving.

Mike 1972

Oakboy wrote: »

Answer the question.s:

I dont judge or make assumptions based on where theyre from so nope I dont "want rid" of them.

If you have issues with a post authored by someone else go and take it up with them.

holidaysong

This is a strange website. 73% of people not caring about a United Ireland is so unrepresentative of what would actually happen in a referendum on the issue in this country. Quite a shocking figure to be honest.

Kiwi in IE

holidaysong wrote: »

This is a strange website. 73% of people not caring about a United Ireland is so unrepresentative of what would actually happen in a referendum on the issue in this country. Quite a shocking figure to be honest.

If it is misrepresentative it may be because, from other polls I've seen on age, a lot of posters on boards are quite young (teens, early twenties). Hopefully a sign that younger generations have not bought into, and are not particularly interested in, sectarian bollocks!

sparky42

holidaysong wrote: »

This is a strange website. 73% of people not caring about a United Ireland is so unrepresentative of what would actually happen in a referendum on the issue in this country. Quite a shocking figure to be honest.

Remind me again what the figures where for the GFA? If the day comes people on both sides will put away the flags and look at reality and discover the heavy cost unification would carry. Make the bank bailouts look like good value.

Yamanoto

holidaysong wrote: »

This is a strange website. 73% of people not caring about a United Ireland is so unrepresentative of what would actually happen in a referendum on the issue in this country. Quite a shocking figure to be honest.

What way do you think the figures would fall, were it put to the Country tomorrow?

holidaysong

You don't have to have 'bought into' sectarianism to be in favour of a United Ireland though. I am 28 years old, so most likely above the average age of this site. I am from Dundalk which means I did grow up a lot closer to the North than the average boards.ie user so due to that alone I would be more likely to have a more informed understanding of things in NI. It doesn't mean I'm in any way sectarian though. For me it probably indicates a level of ignorance on Northern Ireland amongst the younger generation rather than a concious decision to remove themselves from a perceived 'sectarian' issue.

Mike 1972

holidaysong wrote: »

s so unrepresentative of what would actually happen in a referendum on the issue in this country .

The government could save a fortune by just borrowing your crystal ball instead of actually holding such a referendum ?

holidaysong

sparky42 wrote: »

Remind me again what the figures where for the GFA? If the day comes people on both sides will put away the flags and look at reality and discover the heavy cost unification would carry. Make the bank bailouts look like good value.

94% of voters in the south voted for the GFA.

Tuco88

Its up to the people of northern Ireland and I will respect there choice.



I personally would love to see a "united Ireland" in my life time and keep the flare buring of all my ancestors before me.

If Scotland leaves the union (i doubt) it will make the whole unionist culture interesting...

holidaysong

Mike 1972 wrote: »

The government could save a fortune by just borrowing your crystal ball instead of actually holding such a referendum ?

I don't have a crystal ball but I did get a first in an MA thesis on public opinion in the Republic of Ireland on the Northern Irish conflict so I do know what I'm talking about. It was based on 3 NI related opinion poll questions over a series of post general election surveys. It's saved on my old laptop so I must dig it out to see what kind of conclusions I got. I can't remember it off the top of my head but I'd bet any amount of money on a greater than 50% vote for a United Ireland in the ROI is it were to happen tomorrow.

Rascasse

holidaysong wrote: »

You don't have to have 'bought into' sectarianism to be in favour of a United Ireland though. I am 28 years old, so most likely above the average age of this site. I am from Dundalk which means I did grow up a lot closer to the North than the average boards.ie user so due to that alone I would be more likely to have a more informed understanding of things in NI. It doesn't mean I'm in any way sectarian though. For me it probably indicates a level of ignorance on Northern Ireland amongst the younger generation rather than a concious decision to remove themselves from a perceived 'sectarian' issue.

I'm a few years older than you and as things stand could never support a united Ireland. I enjoy living where I do, being close to those I care about and don't want to have to emigrate, which is what I expect I would have to do should an attempt to integrate NI occur - as I can only see it causing a new 'troubles'. Just look what happened with the recent flag situation.

Nice idea in theory, but we're a million miles (or several generations) away from it being a reality.

holidaysong

Tuco88 wrote: »

Its up to the people of northern Ireland and I will respect there choice.

It's not just up to the people of NI though. It's very clear in the GFA that it would take a majority of both NI & the ROI for it to happen. You could have the scenario where NI vote to reunify and the ROI vote against.

Tuco88

holidaysong wrote: »

It's not just up to the people of NI though. It's very clear in the GFA that it would take a majority of both NI & the ROI for it to happen. You could have the scenario where NI vote to reunify and the ROI vote against.

Well anything is possible in todays world... God knows we might have to sell donegal for cash at this stage ha.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Karl Stein

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQtaqgW6MXg

Kiwi in IE

holidaysong wrote: »

You don't have to have 'bought into' sectarianism to be in favour of a United Ireland though. I am 28 years old, so most likely above the average age of this site. I am from Dundalk which means I did grow up a lot closer to the North than the average boards.ie user so due to that alone I would be more likely to have a more informed understanding of things in NI. It doesn't mean I'm in any way sectarian though. For me it probably indicates a level of ignorance on Northern Ireland amongst the younger generation rather than a concious decision to remove themselves from a perceived 'sectarian' issue.

If the North and Republic were ever to join, it will only be concievably possible (economics aside) at a time in the future when sectarian divisions and state observance of religion have died away, which will be a couple of generations away hopefully. Maybe even by the time today's 60+ are gone and today's 20's are middle age and in power. It seems that younger generations are far less reliant on religion and nationalism in the forming of their personal identities than their older counterparts.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Dr.Tank Adams

sparky42 wrote: »

It's not that, I've yet to see any Northern Nationalist who has taken on board the fact that their standard of living/employment etc relies heavily on UK funding and that the South simply can not and will never be able to support that. Until they have a political party saying, lets cut our spending/workforce, increase our taxes and balance our books internally I refuse to be told that we have face the prospect of an economic burden that makes what we have gone through look mild, simply because of flag waving.

Give me a break, it's absolutely that, pure snobbery plain and simple, I fail to see what Nationalist's standard of living (much lower than the south anyway?) has to do with you not caring about unification. How does it effect your views?

pablomakaveli

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQtaqgW6MXg

I find this sums it up better.

Karl Stein

Are you not embarrassed that you know any song by Taylor Swift?

Because I am on your behalf.

Jesus...

Iwasfrozen

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I find this sums it up better.

This is Cathal when he realises we don't want him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVqQWObTes4

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Are you not embarrassed that you know any song by Taylor Swift?

Because I am on your behalf.

Jesus...

Ah now she is pretty hot. :cool:

Karl Stein

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This is Cathal when he realises we don't want him.

You're outside the spectrum of people I'm interested in discussing these matters with. I find your irrational hatred of all things Irish Nationalist or Irish Republican distasteful and not worth engaging in any meaningful way.

pablomakaveli

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ah now she is pretty hot. :cool:

Thats what makes her so memorable but anyone who didnt hear that song all over the place a few months ago must have had their head in the sand but thats not surprising for Republicans. They seem to do that a lot.

Iwasfrozen

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

You're outside the spectrum of people I'm interested in discussing these matters with. I find your irrational hatred of all things Irish Nationalist or Irish Republican distasteful and not worth engaging in any meaningful way.

We weren't discussing in any meaningful way, hence the youtube videos. You have me wrong though that I despise Republicans and nationalists those terms are much too broad to use in the context you are. For example it's possible to be an Irish Republican without favouring unification, I would be one myself.

My problem is with a politically motivated minority branch who seek a unified Ireland under any cost even if it means risking a return to the troubles, the death of innocents, violence on the streets and the political and economical destabilisation of my country that puts my and my family's future in jeopardy.