Ryanair Whistle Blowing Pilot Sacked

Shamrock231

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0814/468241-ryanair-john-goss/

The pilot from the Channel 4 documentary on Monday who blew the whistle on the apparent intimidation/fear culture among pilots and management in Ryanair has today been sacked from the company.

Hope he takes them to court over it.

wazky

I'm not surprised!

He must have deafened his passengers.

endacl

wazky wrote: »

I'm not surprised!

He must have deafened his passengers.

You're thinking of the pilot who plays the bugle when they land. Different chap.

DebDynamite

Sadly, no surprise. I said it myself while watching it he'd be fired.

Hope he has a good case and sues them.

Frosty McSnowballs

It's terrible the way Ryanair charges the pilots for a seat on the plane.

endacl

DebDynamite wrote: »

Hope he has a good case and sues them.

It'll have to fit in that 'cage' yokey 'without being forced'.

Should be OK if he uses a Ryanair case though.

Shamrock231

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

It's terrible the way Ryanair charges the pilots for a seat on the plane.

€28,000 to work for them and €8,000 to leave? What was that again about €10 across the Atlantic? :rolleyes::pac::eek:

Banjo String

What did the Ryanair pilot and the short sighted circumcisor have in common?

They both got the sack.

The Backwards Man

Proper order I say. If someone criticised my business and then had the audacity to still want to work for me they could go take a long **** to themselves.

endacl

Shamrock231 wrote: »

€28,000 to work for them and €8,000 to leave? What was that again about €10 across the Atlantic? :rolleyes::pac::eek:

Those pilots would be better off driving a bus-without-wings in Dublin. When you think of the cost they had to pay for their training.

Shamrock231

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Proper order I say. If someone criticised my business and then had the audacity to still want to work for me they could go take a long **** to themselves.

So all whistle blowers should get the sack? Now lets apply that to the banking crisis eh?

endacl

SamHall wrote: »

What did the Ryanair pilot and the short sighted circumcisor have in common?

They both got the sack.

Why can't circumcised people sit on the board of Ryanair?

You have to be a complete prick.

wazky

endacl wrote: »

Why can't circumcised people sit on the board of Ryanair?

Michael O'Leary is a big enough knobhead without adding to it.

Scortho

Didn't the iaa come out and say that Ryanair have broke no rules etc. and that their safety record is one of the best in Europe. Also that channel 4 dispatches weren't accurate.

Would the pilots actions be classified as gross misconduct?

keith16

endacl wrote: »

Those pilots would be better off driving a bus-without-wings in Dublin. When you think of the cost they had to pay for their training.

Imagine if getting a Dublin bus was a similar process to taking a Ryanair flight.

- Having to un-tick the optional extras as you boarded the bus would take ages
- You would have to queue at the bus stop for hours
- You could pay extra fare to be one of the first people at the queue in all n anyways
- Catching the 79 bus to Ballyfermot would leave you in Sligo
- You could sit at the top of the bus at the front window pretending to be the co-pilot

endacl

keith16 wrote: »

Imagine if getting a Dublin bus was a similar process to taking a Ryanair flight.

- Having to un-tick the optional extras as you boarded the bus would take ages
- You would have to queue at the bus stop for hours
- You could pay extra fare to be one of the first people at the queue in all n anyways
- Catching the 79 bus to Ballyfermot would leave you in Sligo
- You could sit at the top of the bus at the front window pretending to be the co-pilot

And a daft round of applause at every stop?

Shamrock231

Scortho wrote: »

Didn't the iaa come out and say that Ryanair have broke no rules etc. and that their safety record is one of the best in Europe. Also that channel 4 dispatches weren't accurate.

Would the pilots actions be classified as gross misconduct?

Ryanair haven't broken any rules, but this quote from another thread sums up the difference between being safe and not breaking the rules:

It's not whether you're breaking the regulations or not, regulations are only designed for the best case. Like on a motorway you can go at 120kmph, but in fog and snow going 120kmph will get you killed. It doesn't mean you're breaking the regulation, a Guard with a speed camera can't say squat, but it's important that pressure isn't being put on you to drive up to and at the legal limit.
Neither does it mean that 120kmph is too fast, 80%+ of the time, 120kmph is perfectly fine, if not too restrictive, but go 120kmph in fog and snow, while you're not breaking the law, you're asking for an accident.

You've got to take MOL's words with a pinch of salt, not breaking the law, and being safe are not the same things, you've just got to look into this.

pablomakaveli

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Proper order I say. If someone criticised my business and then had the audacity to still want to work for me they could go take a long **** to themselves.

I got the impression he was doing it out of concern of an tragedy happening in which case he should be applauded for speaking out.

Scortho

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I got the impression he was doing it out of concern of an tragedy happening in which case he should be applauded for speaking out.

Really? Then why would he still fly the plane.
If you look at his record with the company he isn't exactly employee of the month.

Detective Mittens

Shamrock231 wrote: »

€28,000 to work for them and €8,000 to leave? What was that again about €10 across the Atlantic? :rolleyes::pac::eek:

I'm glad this info has started to appear in the mainstream. It was all over thejournal.ie yesterday. I have a friend who qualified 2 years ago and she's going demented watching people pay up for jobs.

paddy147

Shamrock231 wrote: »

So all whistle blowers should get the sack? Now lets apply that to the banking crisis eh?

At least he didnt have to live in the transit area of a Russian Airport for a month...:pac::pac:

Lando Griffin

I much prefer Aer Lingus for flying and only flew Ryan Air once and it was an awful experience that I vowed to only travel with Aer Lingus and their destinations.
Aer Lingus have far happier staff and the food is premium.
Aer Lingus getting you where you want to go.

Shamrock231

Scortho wrote: »

Really? Then why would he still fly the plane.
If you look at his record with the company he isn't exactly employee of the month.

To put food on the table, pay the mortgage, repay the masive €100,000 loan you need to become a pilot, the €28,000 you need to join Ryanair? Maybe he couldn't afford the €8,000 Ryanair charge pilots if they leave them?

He was a whistle blower, he was trying to solve a problem before it caused an accident killing 189 people, and now he's been fired. What do you think he should have done, quit, left, said nothing and let another pilot fill his spot and sit by with this information?

paddy147

Lando Griffin wrote: »

I much prefer Aer Lingus for flying and only flew Ryan Air once and it was an awful experience that I vowed to only travel with Aer Lingus and their destinations.
Aer Lingus have far happier staff and the food is premium.
Aer Lingus getting you where you want to go.

Remember the Ryan Air lottery tickets.....scratch to win 10,000 euro.

Then remember that stupid fcuking Euro Pop music they would play before the plane would leave the departure gate....


That did my head in.:pac::pac::mad:

paddy147

Polish man eats 10,000 euro winning Ryan Air lottery ticket,as he thought he was getting the money there and then on the plane...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7330126/Frustrated-Ryanair-passenger-eats-winning-scratchcard.html

Detective Mittens

Shamrock231 wrote: »

To put food on the table, pay the mortgage, repay the masive €100,000 loan you need to become a pilot, the €28,000 you need to join Ryanair? Maybe he couldn't afford the €8,000 Ryanair charge pilots if they leave them?

He was a whistle blower, he was trying to solve a problem before it caused an accident killing 189 people, and now he's been fired. What do you think he should have done, quit, left, said nothing and let another pilot fill his spot and sit by with this information?

A brilliant and accurate quote that was pointed out yesterday in thejournal

But the 1000 pilots who say it dangerous today will still show up for work tomorrow, knowingly taking unprofessional risks.
Why?
Because a good chunk of them cant afford to get fired. There is many 19,20 and 21 years old working for FR who secured their parents house against a 100k+ training loan all so they could become pilots and have a Facebook album full of cockpit pictures entitled “My Office”

From what I've heard flightschools are selling a dream to kids and wannabes, putting them under massive debt, Then when they finish the guys and girls who still have money get the jobs. Then they are under massive stress and go to work when sick etc which of course puts lives at risk.

The whole aviation industry sounds rotten to the core.

questionmark?

The pilot became a whistle-blower without any real evidence to back it up that showed the company did anything wrong. If I brought the company I work for into disrepute I would be fired too.

I would be disciplined possibly fired for writing something about the company I work for on social networking sites whether good or bad, this guy went on TV.

If he had serious concerns about fuel policy he should have gone to the Irish regulator and provided evidence to them so they could investigate.

BTW that show was so biased it was ridiculous. I fly Ryanair, Aer Lingus, Aer Arran, easy Jet et al... and the fact is Ryanair for all their annoying tendencies and in your face selling fly the youngest and most efficient planes in Europe.

DebDynamite

Shamrock231 wrote: »

To put food on the table, pay the mortgage, repay the masive €100,000 loan you need to become a pilot, the €28,000 you need to join Ryanair? Maybe he couldn't afford the €8,000 Ryanair charge pilots if they leave them?

He was a whistle blower, he was trying to solve a problem before it caused an accident killing 189 people, and now he's been fired. What do you think he should have done, quit, left, said nothing and let another pilot fill his spot and sit by with this information?

+ 1

And as mentioned in the Dispatches programme, there's not many pilot jobs going with other airlines, as Ryanair have such a huge share of the market.

zenno

I hate to say this, but if ryanair heads keep putting strain on their pilots as well as minimal fuel allowance for the destination, i can see a bad scenario happening eventually, all to save a few quid.

Ryanair might be cheaper, but i'd rather spend the extra few Euro on a ticket from aerlingus for the extra safety.

Thom Merrilin

Detective Mittens wrote: »

The whole aviation industry sounds rotten to the core.

And yet it continues to prove to be one of the safest methods of transport, per numbers travelling vs. injuries/deaths when compared to cars, boats, trains, buses, bicycles, walking, etc.

Also what is this about paying Ryanair €28,000 for a job? Is that refundable if you leave? What the ????

donkey balls

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

And yet it continues to prove to be one of the safest methods of transport, per numbers travelling vs. injuries/deaths when compared to cars, trains, buses, bicycles, walking, etc.

Also what is this about paying Ryanair €28,000 for a job? Is that refundable if you leave? What the ????

You pay them to train on their aircraft and it is non refundable so just say you train as a pilot for about 65/100k to get a job with Ryanair you fork out the guts of 30k to get trained on the company aircraft.
It is another cash cow for Ryanair.

hfallada

zenno wrote: »

I hate to say this, but if ryanair heads keep putting strain on their pilots as well as minimal fuel allowance for the destination, i can see a bad scenario happening eventually, all to save a few quid.

Ryanair might be cheaper, but i'd rather spend the extra few Euro on a ticket from aerlingus for the extra safety.

Ryanairs planes are always very modern. I have been on some seriously **** planes with emirates and aer lingus. Airlines that pride themselves on being better than the other airlines. Ryainair tens of millions of people per year without any issues. Any of these exposé shows are generally very edited. Like the like last dispatches where 6 months of negative secret filming was condensed into 40 Mins. That would make even the best airlines look ****

0ph0rce0

donkey balls wrote: »

You pay them to train on their aircraft and it is non refundable so just say you train as a pilot for about 65/100k to get a job with Ryanair you fork out the guts of 30k to get trained on the company aircraft.
It is another cash cow for Ryanair.

O'Leary really is a greedy cúnt.

But a rich greedy cúnt, i'll give em that.

Detective Mittens

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

Also what is this about paying Ryanair €28,000 for a job? Is that refundable if you leave? What the ????

You pay for type rating on their 737. This is after your a qualified professional pilot like my friend but as she now has no money she therefore has no job.

We tried to talk her out of training for months.

donkey balls

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

O'Leary really is a greedy cúnt.

But a rich greedy cúnt, i'll give em that.

Also the cabin crew pay for there own training and uniform were most airlines pay you while training and provide you with a free uniform,If only non aviation people knew half the crap that goes on in the back ground.;)

Christ the Redeemer

I wonder how fast he'll be snapped up by a rival airline.... lol..

boreder

He confirmed to Ryanair 3 weeks ago (in writing) that he had no safety concerns, and also confirmed he has never logged any concerns with the IAA or Ryanair using their anonymous reporting system.

3 weeks later he was on national TV saying they're an accident waiting to happen.

What employer would keep you on after that?

Listening to and believing a TV show like that is insane. They had an agenda, and that was to get people to watch the show in order to sell the advertising time.

Why did they refuse O'Learys offer of an unedited interview, if the stuff they were saying could be verified and was factually true?

You can see the (unedited) letters on Ryanairs website, back and forth to the production company with actual factual evidence that breaks down everything that was said on the programme, and proves they were either completely lying or exaggerating the truth.

To put in perspective, if my employer gave me a van with slick tyres, no seat belts and a hole in the petrol tank, I wouldn't drive it for all the money in the world. This guy is saying there's an accident waiting to happen, but he's still happy to fly the plane with himself and 180 odd people on board. Really? He's obviously not that concerned.

I don't particularly care for Ryanair or their business model, but people believing these kind of TV shows bugs the **** out of me.

Shamrock231

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

Also what is this about paying Ryanair €28,000 for a job? Is that refundable if you leave? What the ????

That's the cost of Ryanair's training, which you must pay yourself in addition to the €100,000 pilots license training.

It is NOT refundable if you leave, this is Ryanair we're talking about, leaving Ryanair costs you a further €8,000 on top of that.

zenno

hfallada wrote: »

Ryanairs planes are always very modern. I have been on some seriously **** planes with emirates and aer lingus. Airlines that pride themselves on being better than the other airlines. Ryainair tens of millions of people per year without any issues. Any of these exposé shows are generally very edited. Like the like last dispatches where 6 months of negative secret filming was condensed into 40 Mins. That would make even the best airlines look ****

Nothing to do with modern when they are putting ryanair pilots under stress.

You are calling Aerlingus sh!t ? strange, as they are the safest we have here in Ireland.

No issues ? have you seen the problems with low fuel count circling over spain and other EU countries as pilots try to make it to a diverted destination ?.

With ryanair, everything is cut to the bare minimum and while this might just about be within the regulations it is still a safety hazard.

Shamrock231

boreder wrote: »

Why did they refuse O'Learys offer of an unedited interview, if the stuff they were saying could be verified and was factually true?

An uneditied interview with MOL? Have you ever heard him waffeling, the whole show would have been taken up with him rabbiting on about cheap flights and less baggage lost and being on time with a modern fleet. They'd have needed to edit it to focus on the important parts and stop him using it as a 30 minute advertising slot.

You can bet the facts were true though as channel 4's lawyers would NEVER EVER have let the show go to air with content as damaging as that unless they'd triple checked all their sources and knew it'd stand up in court.

anncoates

Scortho wrote: »

Didn't the iaa come out and say that Ryanair have broke no rules etc. and that their safety record is one of the best in Europe. Also that channel 4 dispatches weren't accurate.

Would the pilots actions be classified as gross misconduct?

I asdume people mean there is a difference between saying there is not a good safety record to date ( as in no accidents to date) and saying a culture of fear and intimidation exists to be fair.

zenno

Hands up anyone that would like to be at 20,000ft or more with stressed out pilots wondering if they have enough fuel to get to location while the location is under a nasty thunderstorm system with very poor visibility and severe cross-winds and only enough fuel to try one landing and then get diverted to another airport with similar weather and try and land with what little fuel is on-board. That would be stress if i ever saw it.

No-one needs pilots under stress. They don't get paid enough imo.

Scortho

anncoates wrote: »

I asdume people mean there is a difference between saying there is not a good safety record to date ( as in no accidents to date) and saying a culture of fear and intimidation exists to be fair.

If its a culture of fear and intimidation, is that not a bit of a stretch away from ryanair a fuel policy which was at the centre of the dispatches episode.
If their was such an issue with their fuel policy do you think they'd be allowed fly?
I remember reading years ago that the one thing that mol fears the most isn't a baggage handlers strike, it's an accident.
When It comes to a part being replaced, it gets replaced. Ryanair has an unwarranted bad rep for being unsafe. The fact remains that they are one of the safest airlines in Europe, with one of the newest fleets.
An accident and Ryanair spell catastrophe. Their whole flight model would be in tatters. Their turnaround model destroyed. I can see them cutting down on excessive fuel, but I can't see them cutting down to a level that isn't safe.
Again if its so dangerous to fly the plane why does the pilot fly?
I don't know about you, but I'd sooner go bankrupt in the uk than put myife at risk.

spank_inferno

Shamrock231 wrote: »

An uneditied interview with MOL? Have you ever heard him waffeling, the whole show would have been taken up with him rabbiting on about cheap flights and less baggage lost and being on time with a modern fleet. They'd have needed to edit it to focus on the important parts and stop him using it as a 30 minute advertising slot.

You can bet the facts were true though as channel 4's lawyers would NEVER EVER have let the show go to air with content as damaging as that unless they'd triple checked all their sources and knew it'd stand up in court.

Plus I doubt Ryanair would see C4 in court.

They dont want their work practices part of public record.

pablomakaveli

Scortho wrote: »

Really? Then why would he still fly the plane.
If you look at his record with the company he isn't exactly employee of the month.

He said experienced pilots like him weren't under the same pressure as younger pilots to carry as much fuel as they should have.

zenno

spank_inferno wrote: »

Plus I doubt Ryanair would see C4 in court.

They dont want their work practices part of public record.

Well maybe Ryanair's work practices should be made part of the public open record, out in the open seeing that it is the public that travels on all of these flights.
The passenger should know, and have access to, how well Ryanair safety is integrated into it's fleet of aircraft and management of safety should they not ?

And any "anomalies" as they say regarding low fuel and why this is the case as well as other safety hazards relating to over-stressed pilots...As in...you fly this route whether you like it or not or you will be flying in snowstorms for the rest of your career.

Remember this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls9-EKkvV0w

denhaagenite

I switched off the documentary because I thought it was biased and an exercise in scare- mongering, however I am shocked to hear that the pilot featured has been sacked and is being taken to court. From what I saw of him, I don't think he said anything particularly shocking or inflammatory. Nothing that we didn't already know. I felt that C4 had gone to Spain as it's blatantly obvious that the Spaniards are no fans of Ryanair and would have a very negative spin to put on the documentary. I did wonder why they never advised as to why six flights were diverted?

I think Ryanair may be shooting themselves in the foot here a bit. People aren't going to like them anymore if they're seen to be unfairly dismissing someone who was raising a concern. They could have given him a rap on the knuckles and then had a press release refuting any unfair claims. Usually this would be their course of action and in my opinion it works a charm at ridiculing their attackers.

homerjay2005

endacl wrote: »

Those pilots would be better off driving a bus-without-wings in Dublin. When you think of the cost they had to pay for their training.

considering Dublin bus drivers are amongest the best paid in the world, i think everybody would be better off working there.

I love Ryanair. Remember when it used to cost around a lot of money to fly to England from here? Sometimes around £200. Ryanair came along and then prices came tumbling down. I can get a return ticket to England for less than €100. I got a return ticket to Spain for less than €90 too. It's brilliant. Sure, it's bogstandard, but if I pay that little, I don't expect any luxuries. Would never fly a long haul with them, if they ever started doing those flights, but for short flights, then it's not difficult to cope.

Red Nissan

The fuel rationing is a concern, I hear it on the scanner a fair bit. Ryanair will land in adverse conditions between wind gusts while other pilots divert.

I don't understand the fuel rationing though, you still need fuel for the next leg, I can understand buying the bulk of your fuel at cheaper stations, but I'd not risk my van running out of diesel to save a few shillings, let alone the other consequences.

limitedIQ

Shamrock231 wrote: »

That's the cost of Ryanair's training, which you must pay yourself in addition to the €100,000 pilots license training.

It is NOT refundable if you leave, this is Ryanair we're talking about, leaving Ryanair costs you a further €8,000 on top of that.

It does kinda make sense from the Airlines pov.

if someone gets their pilots license, gets their first job with Ryanair, Ryanair train and certify them on the boeing 737, then after a year that pilots leaves and gets a higher paid job with etihad and ryanair have to hire another new pilot and train them.

I feel more sorry for the cabin crew having to pay for their own training, pay for the medical, having targets for sales, and having to "rent" the uniform from ryanair and getting paid f all.