Ryanair Whistle Blowing Pilot Sacked

hfallada · 15-08-2013 12:32AM

zenno wrote: »

I hate to say this, but if ryanair heads keep putting strain on their pilots as well as minimal fuel allowance for the destination, i can see a bad scenario happening eventually, all to save a few quid.

Ryanair might be cheaper, but i'd rather spend the extra few Euro on a ticket from aerlingus for the extra safety.

Ryanairs planes are always very modern. I have been on some seriously **** planes with emirates and aer lingus. Airlines that pride themselves on being better than the other airlines. Ryainair tens of millions of people per year without any issues. Any of these exposé shows are generally very edited. Like the like last dispatches where 6 months of negative secret filming was condensed into 40 Mins. That would make even the best airlines look ****

0ph0rce0 · 15-08-2013 12:33AM

donkey balls wrote: »

You pay them to train on their aircraft and it is non refundable so just say you train as a pilot for about 65/100k to get a job with Ryanair you fork out the guts of 30k to get trained on the company aircraft.
It is another cash cow for Ryanair.

O'Leary really is a greedy cúnt.

But a rich greedy cúnt, i'll give em that.

Detective Mittens · 15-08-2013 12:35AM

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

Also what is this about paying Ryanair €28,000 for a job? Is that refundable if you leave? What the ????

You pay for type rating on their 737. This is after your a qualified professional pilot like my friend but as she now has no money she therefore has no job.

We tried to talk her out of training for months.

donkey balls · 15-08-2013 12:36AM

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

O'Leary really is a greedy cúnt.

But a rich greedy cúnt, i'll give em that.

Also the cabin crew pay for there own training and uniform were most airlines pay you while training and provide you with a free uniform,If only non aviation people knew half the crap that goes on in the back ground.;)

Christ the Redeemer · 15-08-2013 12:37AM

I wonder how fast he'll be snapped up by a rival airline.... lol..

boreder · 15-08-2013 12:38AM

He confirmed to Ryanair 3 weeks ago (in writing) that he had no safety concerns, and also confirmed he has never logged any concerns with the IAA or Ryanair using their anonymous reporting system.

3 weeks later he was on national TV saying they're an accident waiting to happen.

What employer would keep you on after that?

Listening to and believing a TV show like that is insane. They had an agenda, and that was to get people to watch the show in order to sell the advertising time.

Why did they refuse O'Learys offer of an unedited interview, if the stuff they were saying could be verified and was factually true?

You can see the (unedited) letters on Ryanairs website, back and forth to the production company with actual factual evidence that breaks down everything that was said on the programme, and proves they were either completely lying or exaggerating the truth.

To put in perspective, if my employer gave me a van with slick tyres, no seat belts and a hole in the petrol tank, I wouldn't drive it for all the money in the world. This guy is saying there's an accident waiting to happen, but he's still happy to fly the plane with himself and 180 odd people on board. Really? He's obviously not that concerned.

I don't particularly care for Ryanair or their business model, but people believing these kind of TV shows bugs the **** out of me.

Shamrock231 · 15-08-2013 12:39AM

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

Also what is this about paying Ryanair €28,000 for a job? Is that refundable if you leave? What the ????

That's the cost of Ryanair's training, which you must pay yourself in addition to the €100,000 pilots license training.

It is NOT refundable if you leave, this is Ryanair we're talking about, leaving Ryanair costs you a further €8,000 on top of that.

zenno · 15-08-2013 12:40AM

hfallada wrote: »

Ryanairs planes are always very modern. I have been on some seriously **** planes with emirates and aer lingus. Airlines that pride themselves on being better than the other airlines. Ryainair tens of millions of people per year without any issues. Any of these exposé shows are generally very edited. Like the like last dispatches where 6 months of negative secret filming was condensed into 40 Mins. That would make even the best airlines look ****

Nothing to do with modern when they are putting ryanair pilots under stress.

You are calling Aerlingus sh!t ? strange, as they are the safest we have here in Ireland.

No issues ? have you seen the problems with low fuel count circling over spain and other EU countries as pilots try to make it to a diverted destination ?.

With ryanair, everything is cut to the bare minimum and while this might just about be within the regulations it is still a safety hazard.

Shamrock231 · 15-08-2013 12:43AM

boreder wrote: »

Why did they refuse O'Learys offer of an unedited interview, if the stuff they were saying could be verified and was factually true?

An uneditied interview with MOL? Have you ever heard him waffeling, the whole show would have been taken up with him rabbiting on about cheap flights and less baggage lost and being on time with a modern fleet. They'd have needed to edit it to focus on the important parts and stop him using it as a 30 minute advertising slot.

You can bet the facts were true though as channel 4's lawyers would NEVER EVER have let the show go to air with content as damaging as that unless they'd triple checked all their sources and knew it'd stand up in court.

anncoates · 15-08-2013 12:52AM

Scortho wrote: »

Didn't the iaa come out and say that Ryanair have broke no rules etc. and that their safety record is one of the best in Europe. Also that channel 4 dispatches weren't accurate.

Would the pilots actions be classified as gross misconduct?

I asdume people mean there is a difference between saying there is not a good safety record to date ( as in no accidents to date) and saying a culture of fear and intimidation exists to be fair.

zenno · 15-08-2013 01:09AM

Hands up anyone that would like to be at 20,000ft or more with stressed out pilots wondering if they have enough fuel to get to location while the location is under a nasty thunderstorm system with very poor visibility and severe cross-winds and only enough fuel to try one landing and then get diverted to another airport with similar weather and try and land with what little fuel is on-board. That would be stress if i ever saw it.

No-one needs pilots under stress. They don't get paid enough imo.

Scortho · 15-08-2013 01:10AM

anncoates wrote: »

I asdume people mean there is a difference between saying there is not a good safety record to date ( as in no accidents to date) and saying a culture of fear and intimidation exists to be fair.

If its a culture of fear and intimidation, is that not a bit of a stretch away from ryanair a fuel policy which was at the centre of the dispatches episode.
If their was such an issue with their fuel policy do you think they'd be allowed fly?
I remember reading years ago that the one thing that mol fears the most isn't a baggage handlers strike, it's an accident.
When It comes to a part being replaced, it gets replaced. Ryanair has an unwarranted bad rep for being unsafe. The fact remains that they are one of the safest airlines in Europe, with one of the newest fleets.
An accident and Ryanair spell catastrophe. Their whole flight model would be in tatters. Their turnaround model destroyed. I can see them cutting down on excessive fuel, but I can't see them cutting down to a level that isn't safe.
Again if its so dangerous to fly the plane why does the pilot fly?
I don't know about you, but I'd sooner go bankrupt in the uk than put myife at risk.

spank_inferno · 15-08-2013 01:16AM

Shamrock231 wrote: »

An uneditied interview with MOL? Have you ever heard him waffeling, the whole show would have been taken up with him rabbiting on about cheap flights and less baggage lost and being on time with a modern fleet. They'd have needed to edit it to focus on the important parts and stop him using it as a 30 minute advertising slot.

You can bet the facts were true though as channel 4's lawyers would NEVER EVER have let the show go to air with content as damaging as that unless they'd triple checked all their sources and knew it'd stand up in court.

Plus I doubt Ryanair would see C4 in court.

They dont want their work practices part of public record.

pablomakaveli · 15-08-2013 01:26AM

Scortho wrote: »

Really? Then why would he still fly the plane.
If you look at his record with the company he isn't exactly employee of the month.

He said experienced pilots like him weren't under the same pressure as younger pilots to carry as much fuel as they should have.

zenno · 15-08-2013 03:42AM

spank_inferno wrote: »

Plus I doubt Ryanair would see C4 in court.

They dont want their work practices part of public record.

Well maybe Ryanair's work practices should be made part of the public open record, out in the open seeing that it is the public that travels on all of these flights.
The passenger should know, and have access to, how well Ryanair safety is integrated into it's fleet of aircraft and management of safety should they not ?

And any "anomalies" as they say regarding low fuel and why this is the case as well as other safety hazards relating to over-stressed pilots...As in...you fly this route whether you like it or not or you will be flying in snowstorms for the rest of your career.

Remember this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls9-EKkvV0w

denhaagenite · 15-08-2013 08:29AM

I switched off the documentary because I thought it was biased and an exercise in scare- mongering, however I am shocked to hear that the pilot featured has been sacked and is being taken to court. From what I saw of him, I don't think he said anything particularly shocking or inflammatory. Nothing that we didn't already know. I felt that C4 had gone to Spain as it's blatantly obvious that the Spaniards are no fans of Ryanair and would have a very negative spin to put on the documentary. I did wonder why they never advised as to why six flights were diverted?

I think Ryanair may be shooting themselves in the foot here a bit. People aren't going to like them anymore if they're seen to be unfairly dismissing someone who was raising a concern. They could have given him a rap on the knuckles and then had a press release refuting any unfair claims. Usually this would be their course of action and in my opinion it works a charm at ridiculing their attackers.

homerjay2005 · 15-08-2013 08:39AM

endacl wrote: »

Those pilots would be better off driving a bus-without-wings in Dublin. When you think of the cost they had to pay for their training.

considering Dublin bus drivers are amongest the best paid in the world, i think everybody would be better off working there.

15-08-2013 08:58AM

I love Ryanair. Remember when it used to cost around a lot of money to fly to England from here? Sometimes around £200. Ryanair came along and then prices came tumbling down. I can get a return ticket to England for less than €100. I got a return ticket to Spain for less than €90 too. It's brilliant. Sure, it's bogstandard, but if I pay that little, I don't expect any luxuries. Would never fly a long haul with them, if they ever started doing those flights, but for short flights, then it's not difficult to cope.

Red Nissan · 15-08-2013 08:59AM

The fuel rationing is a concern, I hear it on the scanner a fair bit. Ryanair will land in adverse conditions between wind gusts while other pilots divert.

I don't understand the fuel rationing though, you still need fuel for the next leg, I can understand buying the bulk of your fuel at cheaper stations, but I'd not risk my van running out of diesel to save a few shillings, let alone the other consequences.

limitedIQ · 15-08-2013 09:08AM

Shamrock231 wrote: »

That's the cost of Ryanair's training, which you must pay yourself in addition to the €100,000 pilots license training.

It is NOT refundable if you leave, this is Ryanair we're talking about, leaving Ryanair costs you a further €8,000 on top of that.

It does kinda make sense from the Airlines pov.

if someone gets their pilots license, gets their first job with Ryanair, Ryanair train and certify them on the boeing 737, then after a year that pilots leaves and gets a higher paid job with etihad and ryanair have to hire another new pilot and train them.

I feel more sorry for the cabin crew having to pay for their own training, pay for the medical, having targets for sales, and having to "rent" the uniform from ryanair and getting paid f all.

mickdw · 15-08-2013 09:14AM

Red Nissan wrote: »

The fuel rationing is a concern, I hear it on the scanner a fair bit. Ryanair will land in adverse conditions between wind gusts while other pilots divert.

I don't understand the fuel rationing though, you still need fuel for the next leg, I can understand buying the bulk of your fuel at cheaper stations, but I'd not risk my van running out of diesel to save a few shillings, let alone the other consequences.

Yes they will use fuel for the next leg anyway but the issue is that carrying extra fuel means weight and that means they will burn up some extra fuel just by carrying it. That is the inefficiency that Ryanair don't like. It's a minor detail until you consider the fuel costs within an airline. Keeping the fuel carried to a minimum saves them millions.
even taking the c4 program with a large punch of salt, it seems like a dangerous game to me. The 3 planes in Spain that landed with minimum fuel got about of publicity. A major fuel related incident would possibly destroy the airline.

homerjay2005 · 15-08-2013 09:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ryanair came along and then prices came tumbling down. I can get a return ticket to England for less than €100.

i flew to London last sunday for €45 all in and to Ibiza a few months back the flight from Dublin to Ibiza was €22.

ted1 · 15-08-2013 09:28AM

Shamrock231 wrote: »

So all whistle blowers should get the sack? Now lets apply that to the banking crisis eh?

Three weeks previously he wrote in writing that there was no safety issues, then went on TV saying there was.

He was not fired, he was a contractor and self employed. His contract was terminated

Shamrock231 · 15-08-2013 09:30AM

Ryanair: "We have an open culture where all pilots are encouraged to report their concerns to the relevant authorities without fear of repercussion. Wait what? You reported a safety concern??? Get out of here, you're fired, and we'll see you in court!"

Red Nissan · 15-08-2013 09:32AM

ted1 wrote: »

He was not fired, he was a contractor and self employed. His contract was terminated

All technicalities for Tax purposes. You're fired if you don't get a job, a period of work and a pay-cheque at a prescribed time.

You're fired, I'm out, Contract terminated = the same thing.

Shamrock231 · 15-08-2013 09:33AM

ted1 wrote: »

Three weeks previously he wrote in writing that there was no safety issues, then went on TV saying there was.

He was not fired, he was a contractor and self employed. His contract was terminated

That only goes to show just exactly how anonymous their reporting system is if they were able to tell how he voted. The point is that they're too afraid to report their concerns to management for fear of them cutting their hours or moving them to another base. The contractor thing is irrelevent, just because you're a contractor that makes up 70%+ of Ryanair pilots doesn't mean you should have to be afraid of reporting a safety concern.

lemansky · 15-08-2013 09:33AM

limitedIQ wrote: »

It does kinda make sense from the Airlines pov.

if someone gets their pilots license, gets their first job with Ryanair, Ryanair train and certify them on the boeing 737, then after a year that pilots leaves and gets a higher paid job with etihad and ryanair have to hire another new pilot and train them.

They could pay for your type rating and then bond you for whatever number of years they deem necessary, like a lot of airlines. Of course, knowing them, you would be liable for the full whack if you left before 30 years of service.

Still, at least you could potentially be in a better position financially to stump it up then as opposed to straight out of an FTO with your parent's house on the line :pac:

Sunglasses Ron · 15-08-2013 09:33AM

Anyone know how much new Ryanair pilots are actually paid? While it is hardly minimum wage I can't imagine it is much.

Mr Benevolent · 15-08-2013 09:40AM

Shamrock231 wrote: »

€28,000 to work for them and €8,000 to leave? What was that again about €10 across the Atlantic? :rolleyes::pac::eek:

It's €28k to get a type rating on the 737-800. This is a normal cost for getting qualified on an unfamiliar aircraft. Perfectly acceptable and expected in the industry.

zenno · 15-08-2013 09:43AM

Well if you haven't seen it yet then i would recommend you watch the Mayday Ryanair documentary above, 3 Ryanair flights one after the other calling for a mayday, not priority, but mayday? something is really off in regards to a situation like this.

Ryanair Whistle Blowing Pilot Sacked

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