Shut the f*** up about the economy...

Stevie888

How old are you OP? You sound like you are very young. You also seem to have no grasp of economics.

Nemeses

My name is URL wrote: »

That's not real debt.. it's just pessimism :pac:

Well, yeah! Considering all sorted of taxes, USC charges, other unknown government taxes are coming out of my wages...


I wonder why I feel pessimistic :P

Cee-Jay-Cee

I am considerably richar than ya-oooh.

Drakares

Good thing I live in Germany and don't have to listen to such.

bbam

I hate those that think that because we're not Living like a 3rd world country that it's good enough.
Usually people with good steady, secure jobs think its good enough for everyone who doesn't have a job, they're not dieing of hunger so it's not a recession.

OP needs to wake up.
The nation is under huge debts, with no revenue stream to make substantial progress towards getting it under control.

Major tax hikes are the only revenue stream open to the government and they well know how to pile it on. But they are trying to gauge just how far it'll go before people have enough( we're a good way off that yet IMHO).

Survival isn't good enough. People and their families deserve to live and know they have a secure future too.

Life's for living, not just surviving.

Sam Kade

wretcheddomain wrote: »

It's getting almost annoying at this stage to hear the same ould economic dogma sh1te being pumped out en masse by ignorant twats.

So what specifically am I referring to?

Folks who go on and on about how this country is apparently 'broke' and how the country is, for all intents and purposes, f***ed.

The bottom line is that IT ISN'T.

We consistently rank among the richest countries in the world (in the Top 20), whether this rank comes from the IMF, World Bank, or other University studies.

Yes - listen to that word - RICHEST.

And then you've folks on here waffling on about a few euro here and there for cigarettes, or some stupid tax they don't want to pay. To all you people out there:

Don't be such ungrateful self-indulgent greedy little sh1tes. You didn't deserve excess cash in whatever boom and you certainly shouldn't be complaining when a few euro is taken back.

Yes - there is relatively high unemployment compared to what was but big fecking deal. Compare our overall status with the other 80% of countries less rich and able than us and maybe you'll stop complaining and get the bigger picture.

So no - the country isn't broke, and yes, you will survive.

You are the ignorant one, you haven't a fcuking clue.

Stevie888

Sam Kade wrote: »

You are the ignorant one, you haven't a fcuking clue.

OP doesn't sound like the brightest spark in fairness.

dirtyden

For some reason the thought of an ostrich with it's head deeply buried in the sand comes to mind.

wretcheddomain

I'm fully aware of the scale of the debt and the so-called crises that is unfolding thus I'm not ignoring facts here. Indeed, I agree with almost every economic statement of fact produced by many of the previous posters. However, it's my belief, alongside many other posters in AH who read this, that we equally cannot ignore the scale of ignorance and exaggeration that penetrates not just the media projection of this crisis but also the highly inflated claims made by many about the economy.

I'll be the first to admit that the current state of affairs will never and should never be considered satisfactory and people have every right, and should, complain about the mismanagement of the economy and the scale of the difficulty to bring things back in order. However, while I'm fully cognisant of these difficulties and challenges, I think there's an overtly pessimistic outlook that is so far exaggerated it is beyond the realm of realism and into barmy. The purpose of this thread is not to ignore these difficulties which many posters have raised, but to at least acknowledge that there is currently too much exaggeration from many parts of the media and the populace concerning these matters.

mad muffin

wretcheddomain wrote: »

It's getting almost annoying at this stage to hear the same ould economic dogma sh1te being pumped out en masse by ignorant twats.

So what specifically am I referring to?

Folks who go on and on about how this country is apparently 'broke' and how the country is, for all intents and purposes, f***ed.

The bottom line is that IT ISN'T.

We consistently rank among the richest countries in the world (in the Top 20), whether this rank comes from the IMF, World Bank, or other University studies.

Yes - listen to that word - RICHEST.

And then you've folks on here waffling on about a few euro here and there for cigarettes, or some stupid tax they don't want to pay. To all you people out there:

Don't be such ungrateful self-indulgent greedy little sh1tes. You didn't deserve excess cash in whatever boom and you certainly shouldn't be complaining when a few euro is taken back.

Yes - there is relatively high unemployment compared to what was but big fecking deal. Compare our overall status with the other 80% of countries less rich and able than us and maybe you'll stop complaining and get the bigger picture.

So no - the country isn't broke, and yes, you will survive.

Are you on some drugs or just mental? Yeah sure we're the richest. The richest politicians. The richest bankers. The richest developers.

So why don't you **** off Bertie


Forgot to add. I'd leave tomorrow but my house isn't worth the toilet paper I wipe my arse with. We didn't even pay over the odds for it.

If our household pay gets cut anymore I might be tempted to post the keys back to the bank...

Stevie888

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I'm fully aware of the scale of the debt and the so-called crises that is unfolding thus I'm not ignoring facts here. Indeed, I agree with almost every economic statement of fact produced by many of the previous posters. However, it's my belief, alongside many other posters in AH who read this, that we equally cannot ignore the scale of ignorance and exaggeration that penetrates not just the media projection of this crisis but also the highly inflated claims made by many about the economy.

I'll be the first to admit that the current state of affairs will never and should never be considered satisfactory and people have every right, and should, complain about the mismanagement of the economy and the scale of the difficulty to bring things back in order. However, while I'm fully cognisant of these difficulties and challenges, I think there's an overtly pessimistic outlook that is so far exaggerated it is beyond the realm of realism and into barmy. The purpose of this thread is not to ignore these difficulties which many posters have raised, but to at least acknowledge that there is currently too much exaggeration from many parts of the media and the populace concerning these matters.

That's a bit of a change from calling people ignorant twats and saying "big fecking deal". But this "ah sure it'll be grand" attitude is partly why we are in such a mess and why we are the laughing stock of Europe. It's people like you who make this country so hopeless.

KyussBishop

While I agree that there is a huge amount of disinformation out there about the economy, economics in general, and our prospects for recovery, it is also the case that the public is never going to give enough of a toss to do anything about it all, when nobody talks about it, and when talking about it is discouraged.

I've given myself a decent passing-education on the massive faults in economics that hold us where we are now, and on how to solve the crisis - the actual solutions aren't all that hard, they are just mired in gigantic mounds of politics and bullshít, designed to muddy debate (driving people away from learning or caring), to delay reform/recovery as long as possible.

To get past all of that, people need to talk and learn about the topic, and sift through the inevitable pile of bullshít that every economics discussion turns into (online and in print/TV) - that's hard, because it's actually one big gigantic propaganda war, where the 'side' that has been controlling economic discourse in academia/media and among the public, peddling (often unknowingly) false information for the last 30 (or arguably 80) years, is winning by a very large margin, and is successfully preventing the discussion from even taking place.

Lapin

Drakares wrote: »

Good thing I live in Germany and don't have to listen to such.

No recession in your house.


:pac:

Geuze

Carnegie wrote: »

We're borrowing nearly 2 billion every month just to stay afloat. Despite all the austerity and increased taxes our deficit is increasing. Only a matter of time before our lenders realise we can never repay this money and stop lending. I reckon we have 3 years max before it all comes to a head.

The public deficit is approx 1bn per month, not 2bn.

The public deficit is falling.

Chips Lovell

My name is URL wrote: »

If the IMF & EU were to pull out of our affairs tomorrow the **** would hit the fan.. there'd be nothing to pay civil servants with.. nothing to keep hospitals, schools etc open. But yeah.. people who point that out are the deluded ones :rolleyes:

You do know that the IMF and EU are pulling out of here right? We're exiting the bailout this year. Two more visits from them and we're done.

MadsL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Zebra3

wretcheddomain wrote: »

It's getting almost annoying at this stage to hear the same ould economic dogma sh1te being pumped out en masse by ignorant twats.

So what specifically am I referring to?

Folks who go on and on about how this country is apparently 'broke' and how the country is, for all intents and purposes, f***ed.

The bottom line is that IT ISN'T.

We consistently rank among the richest countries in the world (in the Top 20), whether this rank comes from the IMF, World Bank, or other University studies.

Yes - listen to that word - RICHEST.

And then you've folks on here waffling on about a few euro here and there for cigarettes, or some stupid tax they don't want to pay. To all you people out there:

Don't be such ungrateful self-indulgent greedy little sh1tes. You didn't deserve excess cash in whatever boom and you certainly shouldn't be complaining when a few euro is taken back.

Yes - there is relatively high unemployment compared to what was but big fecking deal. Compare our overall status with the other 80% of countries less rich and able than us and maybe you'll stop complaining and get the bigger picture.

So no - the country isn't broke, and yes, you will survive.

Utterly clueless.

My name is URL

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You do know that the IMF and EU are pulling out of here right? We're exiting the bailout this year. Two more visits from them and we're done.

What do you believe 'exiting the bailout' means?

In this instance is a total misnomer. It's like saying that we're exiting a train which is travelling unstoppably along tracks that aren't even built.

We're exiting nothing for ten years at least. The IMF et al will still be dictating to us through biannual reports and constant reminders that we're bound to certain things.

They're no more done with us than a bank is done with you after you go in and blindly sign up for an overdraft extension.

SimonLynch

Sorry if it's been said elsewhere but OP, if you were in a room of tits you'd be sucking your thumb

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

What do you believe 'exiting the bailout' means?

In this instance is a total misnomer. It's like saying that we're exiting a train which is travelling unstoppably along tracks that aren't even built.

We're exiting nothing for ten years at least. The IMF et al will still be dictating to us through biannual reports and constant reminders that we're bound to certain things.

They're no more done with us than a bank is done with you after you go in and blindly sign up for an overdraft extension.

Indeed. Anyone saying otherwise needs to lookup 'Promissory note, Anglo'

We'll be paying for the damage done by taking on the banking debts for generations.

flynnlives

amazing the amount of ignorance on this thread and how the op and a few others easily lap up what the media tell them.

There are a few undeniable facts that will mean this country is ruined for the rest of this decade.

400k+ on the dole ~ 13% unemployment

massive amounts of personal debt notwithstanding mortgage arrears.

a massive buy to let market that is on the verge of collapse but has been managed via cosy semi-state
sponsered vehicles like NAMA at our expense

a economic collapse that has been strategically managed by those in positions of authority to socialise
vast billions of private debt.

a cosy cartel of vested interests riding out this recession like they always have.

And last but not least sheeple populous like the op spoonfed that "we all partied" and that we all now need to suck it up ie. "you will survive"


do us a favour will ya!
go read a history book, then go read the newspaper. Then go ask yourself who owns the media in this country.

then go read another history book about the political parties in this country, how they operate from the ground up, then read about who funds them and how many of them have friends in banking and building.

Then ask yourself one last question "why is it that certain individuals and families in each and every town and city in this country seem to continuously
ride out these recessions quite comfortably?"


Then maybe you will have a clue has to how corrupt this cesspool of a country is.


But alas you wont bother your arse and you sir are the reason we have and wont learn anything from the last 20 years.

SimonLynch

Well said

flynnlives wrote: »

amazing the amount of ignorance on this thread and how the op and a few others easily lap up what the media tell them.

There are a few undeniable facts that will mean this country is ruined for the rest of this decade.

400k+ on the dole ~ 13% unemployment

massive amounts of personal debt notwithstanding mortgage arrears.

a massive buy to let market that is on the verge of collapse but has been managed via cosy semi-state
sponsered vehicles like NAMA at our expense

a economic collapse that has been strategically managed by those in positions of authority to socialise
vast billions of private debt.

a cosy cartel of vested interests riding out this recession like they always have.

And last but not least sheeple populous like the op spoonfed that "we all partied" and that we all now need to suck it up ie. "you will survive"


do us a favour will ya!
go read a history book, then go read the newspaper. Then go ask yourself who owns the media in this country.

then go read another history book about the political parties in this country, how they operate from the ground up, then read about who funds them and how many of them have friends in banking and building.

Then ask yourself one last question "why is it that certain individuals and families in each and every town and city in this country seem to continuously
ride out these recessions quite comfortably?"


Then maybe you will have a clue has to how corrupt this cesspool of a country is.


But alas you wont bother your arse and you sir are the reason we have and wont learn anything from the last 20 years.

Chips Lovell

My name is URL wrote: »

What do you believe 'exiting the bailout' means?

We stop borrowing from the troika and start borrowing on the open market. We've started doing the latter already.

My name is URL wrote: »

We're exiting nothing for ten years at least. The IMF et al will still be dictating to us through biannual reports and constant reminders that we're bound to certain things.

Troika reports end this year as part of the exit. They've just concluded the penultimate one.

Vladimir Kurtains

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

We stop borrowing from the troika and start borrowing on the open market. We've started doing the latter already.



Troika reports end this year as part of the exit. They've just concluded the penultimate one.

We're borrowing on the open market only in a carefully managed bond issue during a calm time in the markets. The true test of our ability to borrow will be when the Eurozone mess starts up again and markets force the yield on our debt up to close to 10%.

Also, when the final Troika report is issued, do you think the IMF will just wipe their hands clean and never have anything to say about Ireland again?

the_syco

wretcheddomain wrote: »

economic

You're the first one to remind me of it all day, actually.

wretcheddomain

the_syco wrote: »

You're the first one to remind me of it all day, actually.

Unfortunately for you and your ilk, more people in AH are on my side in this argument than yours.

The strange people of this thread need to understand that nobody is denying economic facts concerning the economy as has been previously stated.

But, rest assured, I'll resurrect this post in the future and you'll look as silly as you do now parading out the negative populist thought just because you think you know all about economics, which I'm sure ye do, but you guys go around committing ad hominem assaults rather than engaging appropriately.

Peace.

dj jarvis

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You do know that the IMF and EU are pulling out of here right? We're exiting the bailout this year. Two more visits from them and we're done.

and all the money that NTM have borrowed after going back into the markets , enough to fund us for at least a year , maybe more i am not sure of the figures

these bond sales were 3 times over subscribed , Ireland can and will fund itself , at a cost , but in the markets at the moment , its "affordable"

even with the lack of growth, Ireland according to the current forecasts will have a 2.8% deficit - it is projected to be one of the lowest in the EU

so in answer to the "we would sink if the troika and Germany pulled out?" no we would not , and it's pointless a discussion, Germany is not going to let it's poster boy for austerity fail 4 months from exiting the bail out

some crap being spouted on this thread

dj jarvis

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

We stop borrowing from the troika and start borrowing on the open market. We've started doing the latter already.



Troika reports end this year as part of the exit. They've just concluded the penultimate one.

in fairness , his second point is correct - the IMF have some right to something for 20 years , i remember hearing about it , sorry i dont know what the right is , maybe another poster knows , but it is expenditure/finance related

Red Pepper

Geuze wrote: »

The public deficit is approx 1bn per month, not 2bn.

The public deficit is falling.

When you think about it i.e. we spend €1,000,000,000 more then we take in with taxes every 31 days, it really is quite shocking. And to think we have been doing it (and worse) for 5 years. €1,000,000,000 every 31 days and all the while piling up our national debt.

And yet, this is progress...