Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

homerjay2005

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Where did the figure of 54k come from?

Wages and salaries come to approx 46K per employee, and approx 3.5k was paid into the pension scheme but I cant easily put a figure on how much of that actually accrues to current employees.

note i said each employee costs 54k, not salary. Payroll is €181million, divided by 3345 is €54160 per employee.

gross pay is around 46k or 47k i would say, with €25million of the above being on pension and prsi.

hoplon

veryangryman wrote: »

On that salary and circumstances I have to say he was a fool not to seek employment elsewhere. I know I would have.

Deleted User wrote: »

What, 54 grand a year for driving a fecking bus ???

Seriously is that for real ?

I dont think so, know a former driver, they left DB in the end, the hassle from management is stupid, hence they left, well along with dodging rock throwing scum and dealing with pissed passengers, not talking about most passengers but the difficult ones.

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Your arguement is flawed on many levels.
First bus drivers are not paid "peanuts" they earn between €40,000 and €50,000 a year.

There is no way they earn that, and if the company is so disorganised that they encouraged large amounts of overtime to limit hiring more drivers, well then thats hardly the drivers fault.

Im suprised at the lack of support or even sympathy, when people dont know what the job entails with dealing with customers and management. From the former driver I know, the management is terrible.

The management has the upperhand, they know the populace are fickle and will turn on anyone that makes things more difficult for them, all they have to do is play the waiting game, meanwhile, it sounds like the staff are being expected to make consessions on pay and working hours and on time off.

The minister stands back while all along the Govt have rewarded those at the very top yet continue to penalise those at the bottom by dividing and conquering.

Its sad really, I know people have to get to work,
I recal when the nurses went on strike, what was it for? about two days during the late nineties or early noughties, but not withdrawing essential services and they were ignored by the govt, when they should have held fast.

I think this is all an effort to break DB up a bit, and Id be all for having some private services on some routes, but I can imagine the kind of working conditions for the staff, while I think theres an advantage to having an efficiently run service, Its not the drivers fault how the organisation is run, they havent mismanaged DB over the years, didnt order in a load of new buses when they had existing stuff, or the bendy buses, buses that literally wouldnt fit on their intended routes, who's idea was it to waste that money?
Or when a private service started up near me, DB swamped the route, then when the private service folded, they went back to their old ways, was that the drivers fault.

I wouldnt mind a job driving for a while to see if I'd temper what Id be critical of. I sympathise with the passengers, but Im dissapointed at the lack of solidarity with their fellow citizens, not just DB drivers, we really are a bunch of easily led fools and walkovers.

cdebru

homerjay2005 wrote: »

here is the financial report for their last figures, total pay related costs are €181million a year - each member of staff costs over €54,000 for the company, which is just astounding for driving buses.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/2430/Dublin%20Bus%20AR%202011.pdf

as to how anybody can support them, especially people who need the service, ill never know.
how you going to get to work by the way?

sorry that is just dumb dividing the total wage cost by the number employees to work out a drivers wage is nonsense.

basic drivers pay is about 33,000 including shift allowance brings it up to about 38,500, with the 48 maximum working week even if a driver maxed out his hours he/she couldn't earn 54,000

ixoy

cdebru wrote: »

basic drivers pay is about 33,000 including shift allowance brings it up to about 38,500, with the 48 maximum working week even if a driver maxed out his hours he/she couldn't earn 54,000

38,500 is gross salary right? Before any PRSI, tax, pension deductions?

hoplon

Andy Carroll wrote: »

In Germany, if the bus drivers strike - they drive the bus but don't accept fares.
Now that makes a lot more ****ing sense doesn't it.

This is a brilliant idea for a strike, not sure how it could be transferred to other services that dont collect payment at the time the service is availed of.

Benji1974 wrote: »

I saw five of the strikers coming out of the Hill 16 pub on Gardiner St. this afternoon, (all wearing their Dublin Bus high vis Dublin Bus jackets) and making their way back towards the Summerhill depot to rejoin the picket.
If you’re go to a pub, especially during a strike, at least remove company clothing with a very visible logo. Only in Ireland would they get away with that.

There is a thread running somewhere about the distinct lack of public toilets in Dublin. You are assuming the easiest thing first.

cdebru

Also public support is nice but it doesn't get you anything, nurses in general have massive public support but they get screwed over on a regular basis.

cdebru

ixoy wrote: »

38,500 is gross salary right? Before any PRSI, tax, pension deductions?

Yes gross pay before tax, prsi, usc etc etc

rustedtrumpet

Yes whatever, I support them. Just get back to work so I can go into town tomorrow and buy a new pair of runners.

ted1

charlietheminxx wrote: »

What about the thousands of people living in places like swords/santry as an example? It costs about 25 euro from swords to town in a taxi.

Still support the strike though.

It's a short cycle.

devnull

Rumours on the thread in Commuting and Transport that the Luas Lines could be blocked in the morning.

ixoy

ted1 wrote: »

It's a short cycle.

Swords isn't a particularly short cycle and that's assuming you have a bike to cycle in with.

cdebru wrote:

Yes gross pay before tax, prsi, usc etc etc

Grand. The nub of the issue then: How many workers avail of overtime? I can't wrap my head around the fact that their take home pay is going to drop significantly since core pay is unaffected. If the overtime right is dropping slightly then surely only a small sum on top of the basic wage is affected. Are we all missing something on this overtime?

cdebru

Rightwing wrote: »

i'd like to them break the unions

Its 2013 not 1913 it didn't work then it wont work now, pity some people just want to drag people backwards.

If you want to see what non unionised world looks like take a trip over to Microsoft, the agency workers on temp contracts, just over minimum wage, forced to work weekends , overtime to get those end of period returns done with no pay and then after 6 months have to reapply for a job most don't get because they want them out of there before they have any rights.
of course we should be happy to have them here so we just kiss their ass in case they move, not that it would make much difference as they mostly exploit young foreign people.

B.A._Baracus

devnull wrote: »

Rumours on the thread in Commuting and Transport that the Luas Lines could be blocked in the morning.

Blocked?
As in some bus driver is going to park a bus over the tracks? :pac:

lets be honest it'll never happen

Lumbo

devnull wrote: »

Rumours on the thread in Commuting and Transport that the Luas Lines could be blocked in the morning.

That would be illegal. the Unions/Guards wouldn't allow it.

Quote: Benji1974
I saw five of the strikers coming out of the Hill 16 pub on Gardiner St. this afternoon, (all wearing their Dublin Bus high vis Dublin Bus jackets) and making their way back towards the Summerhill depot to rejoin the picket.
If you’re go to a pub, especially during a strike, at least remove company clothing with a very visible logo. Only in Ireland would they get away with that.

Well I did support the drivers but now I hear that some of them have lunch I'm not so sure.

devnull

cdebru wrote: »

Its 2013 not 1913 it didn't work then it wont work now, pity some people just want to drag people backwards.

If you want to see what non unionised world looks like take a trip over to Microsoft, the agency workers on temp contracts, just over minimum wage, forced to work weekends , overtime to get those end of period returns done with no pay and then after 6 months have to reapply for a job most don't get because they want them out of there before they have any rights.
of course we should be happy to have them here so we just kiss their ass in case they move, not that it would make much difference as they mostly exploit young foreign people.

I agree they are not desirable conditions - but you are not forced to work there, and not all non unionsed places are like that.

devnull

Lumbo wrote: »

That would be illegal. the Unions/Guards wouldn't allow it.

According to the person who posted it, it may be the Socialist Party, or at least it's supporters who are involved.

I can imagine they would like nothing more than a general strike.

unkel

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

This is not on a par with 1913. Hopefully they will stay on strike and the government will deregulate the buses allowing real private competition, problem solved!

+1

Used to pay €240 for bin collection by lazy wasters from the county council that didn't show up half of the time

Now I pay less than half that, and the service is vastly improved (city bin have not missed a single pick up in the many years I've been with them)

Fire them all and let private companies take over!

Lumbo

devnull wrote: »

According to the person who posted it, it may be the Socialist Party who are involved.

I can imagine they would like nothing more than a general strike.

I think the term is "secondary picketing" and there are strict rules set out to prevent it happening.

The Socialist Party have nothing to do with the Dublin Bus dispute. I hope the Guards deal with them using the force necessary.

unkel

ixoy wrote: »

38,500 is gross salary right? Before any PRSI, tax, pension deductions?

Nearly €40k in gross salary is far more than a bus driver in any other EU country would take. And income tax here is lower than most other countries on a salary like that

And we're broke. Our tax take isn't enough to pay civil servants what we used to pay them. The sooner they all realise we will pay them less and less (unless the economy picks up significantly), the sooner this nonsense of strikes is gonna stop

msg11

Find it a bit bizarre that they won't open the bus lanes tomorrow, there is going to be traffic chaos. Only thing in the bus lanes tomorrow will be taxis. By the sounds of things, no one in power really gives a ****.

cdebru

ixoy wrote: »

Swords isn't a particularly short cycle and that's assuming you have a bike to cycle in with.


Grand. The nub of the issue then: How many workers avail of overtime? I can't wrap my head around the fact that their take home pay is going to drop significantly since core pay is unaffected. If the overtime right is dropping slightly then surely only a small sum on top of the basic wage is affected. Are we all missing something on this overtime?

It is not just about overtime,

Bank holiday working which is compulsory is cut by 94 euro a day, for those that do work overtime there are cuts to overtime rates, Sunday rest day rates etc

Other issues are summer schedules, the main issue being exactly what way it will work, the company wont say and the labour court rec is vague.

Forcing drivers to take 50 minute breaks if the schedule means they break late, it just covers for bad schedules instead of making the company fix them. 50 minutes sounds ok but that is includes getting from your bus to the canteen queuing to use one of 5 toilets, the only time you have a toilet in your working day. Queuing for your dinner eating it and getting back to your pick up point which drivers try to be there 10 minutes early to relieve the next driver.

Installing monitoring equipment in the cab, to measure your fuel efficiency under the guise of a bonus scheme, no details in the LC rec it says the details have to be worked out.

reducing self cert sick days to 4 a year or 2 max in 6 months. (yeah lucky to have any but driving a bus is not a normal job, no toilet facilities etc)

Meant to last only 19 months but no finish date in LC rec and company say it they will review it which means it is permanent.

Drivers panel of ticket checkers ( because ticket checkers wont do it because it is too dangerous)


that's mostly it, a lot of the stuff is vague and is supposed to be sorted later but staff wont have a say later, so after 14 months they don't even have details, how can you vote yes to an agreement in which they will stick in the details after you say yes?

nino1

Bus drivers should be on the minimum wage.
It's a job that requires nothing more than a bus driving license.
No skills or qualifications.
Therefore they should be on the same wage as supermarket
checkout worker.
If it was a private enterprise they would certainly be on minimum
wage or just very slightly higher.

devnull

msg11 wrote: »

Find it a bit bizarre that they won't open the bus lanes tomorrow, there is going to be traffic chaos. Only thing in the bus lanes tomorrow will be taxis. By the sounds of things, no one in power really gives a ****.

Tour Buses
Bus Eireann
Swords Express
Aircoach
Private Tourist Coaches
Cyclists

None of them should have to suffer through something that is no fault of their own. Why should car drivers be accommodated? They don't feel any pain of this?

devnull

nino1 wrote: »

Bus drivers should be on the minimum wage.
It's a job that requires nothing more than a bus driving license.
No skills or qualifications.
Therefore they should be on the same wage as supermarket
checkout worker.
If it was a private enterprise they would certainly be on minimum
wage or just very slightly higher.

That's very harsh, I think they are overpaid, but they deserve to be paid more than that.

Gatling

I see some db driver's apparently blocked an luas on the redline this evening ,

nino1

devnull wrote: »

That's very harsh, I think they are overpaid, but they deserve to be paid more than that.

Why?
If you we're the owner of a private bus company would you pay them more than that when any joe soap off the street can be taught to drive a bus

cdebru

unkel wrote: »

Nearly €40k in gross salary is far more than a bus driver in any other EU country would take. And income tax here is lower than most other countries on a salary like that

And we're broke. Our tax take isn't enough to pay civil servants what we used to pay them. The sooner they all realise we will pay them less and less (unless the economy picks up significantly), the sooner this nonsense of strikes is gonna stop

it is a bull**** comparison, one DB employees are not civil or public servants, and 40,000 is below the average industrial wage in Irelandd it doesn't take tax rates, cost of living etc into account.

but as an example I see some people are pointing out that London bus drivers earn 26,000 sterling, which is about 30,000 euro, of course it ignores the fact that before this economic crisis sterling to euro was 1 to 1.50 so 26,000 was 39,000 or the same as here all that has happened is the UK have devalued their currency and we can't.

Guy:Incognito

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

And the race to the bottom, the very bottom has started is continuing. It is an official strike and the issues should be debated.

Were the issues not already debated in the labour court and elswhere over the last 2 years or so?

cdebru

nino1 wrote: »

Why?
If you we're the owner of a private bus company would you pay them more than that when any joe soap off the street can be taught to drive a bus

lmao try it see how easy it is, trust me I seen some of the joe soaps that tried it they didn't make it.