Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

homerjay2005

mods,is apologies if this already sorted elsewhere, feel free to merge.

just wanted to get peoples opinions on the current strike which really threatens to cause havoc for people trying to go about their business in Dublin.

who do you think is to blame here - the workers or the company? personally, ive lost all support for the drivers, they can go and do one as far as i am concerned, their pay levels are up their with the best in Europe for the job, yet they are still not happy.

Ten of Swords

No, I do not.

DrumSteve

I use the bus every day and I need it to get to and from work.

But I support them. They are not disagreeing to pay cuts or changes, they just want to know when they are going to end. The company afaik wants to make these changes, then more again in future after this.

So fair play to them. While it puts me out im glad they are taking a stand.

However with these being boards, I reckon the poll will indicate they should all be rounded up and executed.

Redlion

Wow, that second poll option is a little extreme, don't ya think?

I don't fully support the drivers, as I believe they should accept the recommendations of the Labour Court. However, saying that they don't deserve their jobs is a tad too much.

Captain Chaos

No I don't support them. Everyone has to take cuts, we all have no choice in this. They will cost people their jobs from this action. If they don't like their jobs, leave, and let others unemployed take over. Life is tough.

saintsaltynuts

I was getting on a bus last week while it was pissin rain.The bus driver said to me.."You'll have to wait for the next bus we're full".I said "How long's the next bus?".."He said about Fifteen foot!".....Bastard!

homerjay2005

DrumSteve wrote: »

So fair play to them. While it puts me out im glad they are taking a stand.

here is the financial report for their last figures, total pay related costs are €181million a year - each member of staff costs over €54,000 for the company, which is just astounding for driving buses.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/2430/Dublin%20Bus%20AR%202011.pdf

as to how anybody can support them, especially people who need the service, ill never know.
how you going to get to work by the way?

foxy06

Dublin bus is losing money because of fewer passenger numbers because of high unemployment because of the recession which was caused by a banking crisis which was caused by rogue bankers which are sitting pretty with the bondholders laughing at the rest of us.

The whole country should be kicking up mot just bus drivers

Creamy Goodness

dickheads in jobs aren't just contained to bus drivers.

i support them. they do a thankless job, majority of them are lovely and have to deal with dickhead cyclists/motorists (actually all road users).

Creamy Goodness

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

they do a thankless job,

I find they get a lot of thanks when people get off the bus.

Creamy Goodness

cisk wrote: »

I find they get a lot of thanks when people get off the bus.

idle thanks i've found on most part. on the flip side they'll have people throwing cans of piss at them on the later services.

Peregrine

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

support them. they do a thankless job

Excuse me! But I thank them every time I get off the bus.


And no I don't support them one bit.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

No time for them, overpaid and arrogant to boot!
14 months of negoitations, and they have rejected the Labour Court recommendations.
Time to to deregulate the buses, see how the greedy feckers fare then when they have to actually compete for business.

No

homerjay2005

cisk wrote: »

I find they get a lot of thanks when people get off the bus.

and its a job they are really well paid to do, too well paid in fact.

Boombastic

Anyone got any figures of how much they are on?

BNMC

No. I support Man United.

becost

cisk wrote: »

I find they get a lot of thanks when people get off the bus.

Why is that? It's definitely an Irish thing like clapping when the plane lands.

KingOfFairview

Yes

DylanII

I don't support them at all.

Their basic pay is not being cut, it's just overtime pay and premium payments. The company has negotiated with them for the past 14 months. They went to both the labour court and the labour relations comission both said this was the correct way to cut costs and was fair to the drivers.

I don't think the company should notify drivers that for every day the strike continues that they will have to make a further €200,000 of cuts to pay.

vitani

I don't support them. I don't agree with striking unless it's in extreme circumstances. They're causing a lot of hassle to a lot of people right now. There's thousands of tourists over for the Rock'n'Roll half marathon who are going to be inconvienced and will go home with a bad impression of Dublin. Other people may have to spend a significant portion of their budget just to get to work tomorrow.

The only people benefitting are taxi drivers.

mike65

Usual Marxist *****.

Potatoeman

foxy06 wrote: »

Dublin bus is losing money because of fewer passenger numbers because of high unemployment because of the recession which was caused by a banking crisis which was caused by rogue bankers which are sitting pretty with the bondholders laughing at the rest of us.

The whole country should be kicking up mot just bus drivers

Its the financial regulators job to enforce regulation. A large part of this crisis was caused by greedy civil servant too.
These semi state companies ramped up pay during the boom too and the service is crap. I walk 40 minutes into work rather than wait for a bus that might not show up.

Toby Take a Bow

becost wrote: »

Why is that? It's definitely an Irish thing like clapping when the plane lands.

It's nice to be nice, I suppose. I would thank most people who serve me in my day. When I worked in the service industry myself, it was always appreciated when people were polite.

Personally, I support them. They have taken cuts in the past and I would guess see the kind of labour court recommendations as merely the first of many down the road. May as well take a stand now rather than further on down the road when their pay and entitlements are further eroded.

Sunnyisland

The recommendations, made by the Labour Court, came into effect at midnight on the 4th of August, with a prescript that any driver working at that time would be counted to have agreed to the cuts.

Since 2009 representatives for the workers at the company have been involved in talks with the government, the directors, and the labour courts, and have so far made a saving of 25 million euro in overall annual expenditure. This saving has taken the form of a reduction of 20% of staff in areas such as maintenance and clerical staff, as well as drivers, and a reduction in the number of people working per day, as well the reduction in the number of routes and merging of others. And of course; in the raising of prices.

Bigger European countries, such as Germany, provide near 70% towards their public transport, but in Ireland, their simply isn’t the money. So the company must cut back further. This has taken the form of a range of benefit cuts mostly in relation to wages on Bank Holidays, Sundays, and other public holidays, and a reduction in the number of rest days. While this may seem like a small sacrifice for the greater cause that is austerity; the workers Dublin Bus feel like they can’t be pushed any further.

It is very important to note that the people most affected by these cuts are not the drivers, but the maintenance and clerical staff. On average a member of the maintenance crew would earn nearly 28,000 a year, before tax. And the majority of them must support families, in a slowly inflating economy. They make up a great deal for this low wage by working overtime, bank holidays and Sundays, as well as doing arduous night shifts. These cuts mean that their basic wage will lower even further, without a cut to the wages themselves. Though the cuts are coupled with a new lower wage packet for new employees.

This is a company who are being pressed, and pressed and pressed to make more and more savings, stuck between a government who are looking for a good enough reason to privatise them, and work force who simply cannot take anymore. But striking rarely wins you any favours with the populace, and with support, what hope do they have. Personally, I would call it a dumb move, if they didn’t have any other choice.

But what if they don’t concede, what if the workers don’t lose their nerve, how long could this go on? How far could it spread? During protests in 1913 there were riots on the streets, people living off scraps. Who will come out in sympathy, or even in defence of their own jobs? I’m sure there are people in the opposition, particularly the SWP and PBP that are waiting – even hoping – for this, but none of this really helps the everyday person, they trudge along complaining, but content to put up with it. What happens when they get pushed too far, what happens when they can’t take anymore?

But sure this is Ireland, it’ll all be grand, we just have to knuckle down, and we’ll make it through.
http://irishnewsreview.net/2013/08/05/history-repeats-itself-2013-dublin-bus-strike/

Some intresting points been put here, one,s in which I would agree with.

Monkeybonkers

How long have they been on strike for?

Captain Chaos

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

How long have they been on strike for?

This is day 2 of the strike. They walked off the job at midnight on Saturday.

Potatoeman

Captain Chaos wrote: »

1 day. They walked off the job at midnight on Saturday.

Was that the nightlinks too. That would be a nasty surprise.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

realies wrote: »

The recommendations, made by the Labour Court, came into effect at midnight on the 4th of August, with a prescript that any driver working at that time would be counted to have agreed to the cuts.

Since 2009 representatives for the workers at the company have been involved in talks with the government, the directors, and the labour courts, and have so far made a saving of 25 million euro in overall annual expenditure. This saving has taken the form of a reduction of 20% of staff in areas such as maintenance and clerical staff, as well as drivers, and a reduction in the number of people working per day, as well the reduction in the number of routes and merging of others. And of course; in the raising of prices.

Bigger European countries, such as Germany, provide near 70% towards their public transport, but in Ireland, their simply isn’t the money. So the company must cut back further. This has taken the form of a range of benefit cuts mostly in relation to wages on Bank Holidays, Sundays, and other public holidays, and a reduction in the number of rest days. While this may seem like a small sacrifice for the greater cause that is austerity; the workers Dublin Bus feel like they can’t be pushed any further.

It is very important to note that the people most affected by these cuts are not the drivers, but the maintenance and clerical staff. On average a member of the maintenance crew would earn nearly 28,000 a year, before tax. And the majority of them must support families, in a slowly inflating economy. They make up a great deal for this low wage by working overtime, bank holidays and Sundays, as well as doing arduous night shifts. These cuts mean that their basic wage will lower even further, without a cut to the wages themselves. Though the cuts are coupled with a new lower wage packet for new employees.

This is a company who are being pressed, and pressed and pressed to make more and more savings, stuck between a government who are looking for a good enough reason to privatise them, and work force who simply cannot take anymore. But striking rarely wins you any favours with the populace, and with support, what hope do they have. Personally, I would call it a dumb move, if they didn’t have any other choice.

But what if they don’t concede, what if the workers don’t lose their nerve, how long could this go on? How far could it spread? During protests in 1913 there were riots on the streets, people living off scraps. Who will come out in sympathy, or even in defence of their own jobs? I’m sure there are people in the opposition, particularly the SWP and PBP that are waiting – even hoping – for this, but none of this really helps the everyday person, they trudge along complaining, but content to put up with it. What happens when they get pushed too far, what happens when they can’t take anymore?

But sure this is Ireland, it’ll all be grand, we just have to knuckle down, and we’ll make it through.
http://irishnewsreview.net/2013/08/05/history-repeats-itself-2013-dublin-bus-strike/

Some intresting points been put here, one,s in which I would agree with.

This is not on a par with 1913. Hopefully they will stay on strike and the government will deregulate the buses allowing real private competition, problem solved!

Captain Chaos

Potatoeman wrote: »

Was that the nightlinks too. That would be a nasty surprise.

It was everything and it was no surprise, they announced the nightlinks were gone so more taxis were out to pick up the slack.

Potatoeman

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It was everything and it was no surprise, they announced the nightlinks were gone so more taxis were out to pick up the slack.

Depends where people were coming from and going too. I avoid the nightlinks but many younger people depend in them.

RayM

I support them in principle, but I think an all-out strike is a huge mistake. Instead, they should agree to drive the buses, but refuse to take fares from passengers. That way, they win the PR war. It would be up to the company to decide whether to suspend services and cause huge inconvenience to the public.

homerjay2005

Boombastic wrote: »

Anyone got any figures of how much they are on?

report is above, total staff costs are working out at around 54k per drivers, which includes things like pension and psri that they dont see.

id expect that average salary is around 49k which is insane money for driving a bus.

mikemac1

Sometimes when I'm downstairs people watching on the 40 there will be times of the day when there more people with DSP passes then fare payers getting on.

No wonder Dublin Bus are losing money if a large amount of their customers are not paying fares.

But that's for ministers like Joan Burton to sort out.

Dublin bus management and unions can't fix that

Sunnyisland

homerjay2005 wrote: »

report is above, total staff costs are working out at around 54k per drivers, which includes things like pension and psri that they dont see.

id expect that average salary is around 49k which is insane money for driving a bus.

From the link above, its not just drivers who have voted for this action,

maintenance and clerical staff. On average a member of the maintenance crew would earn nearly 28,000 a year, before tax.

DylanII

homerjay2005 wrote: »

report is above, total staff costs are working out at around 54k per drivers, which includes things like pension and psri that they dont see.

id expect that average salary is around 49k which is insane money for driving a bus.

Thats an average of €54k per employee at Dublin Bus. Including the management and all other staff not just drivers. I would say the drivers pay is a lot lower than that.

Boombastic

homerjay2005 wrote: »

report is above, total staff costs are working out at around 54k per drivers, which includes things like pension and psri that they dont see.

id expect that average salary is around 49k which is insane money for driving a bus.

Yep. Far too much. I'm surprised they aren't looking at more cuts . From rte....

The measures involve pay-cuts for executive and management grades, longer working-hours and cuts in annual leave for clerical staff and management.
There is no cut to core pay for drivers, but there are reductions to overtime rates, premium payments and changes to rosters, in particular to accommodate new summer timetables.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0804/466289-dublin-bus-strike/

foxy06

homerjay2005 wrote: »

report is above, total staff costs are working out at around 54k per drivers, which includes things like pension and psri that they dont see.

id expect that average salary is around 49k which is insane money for driving a bus.

I think you would suspect wrong

MurdyWurdy

becost wrote: »

Why is that? It's definitely an Irish thing like clapping when the plane lands.

No, it's not just an Irish thing - people in NZ shout "thanks driver" as they get off the bus all the time. Always amused me. Why on boards do loads of posters think common things are only done in Ireland? It's so insular

Jarrod

''Typical Irish, just bend over and take it from the government, someone should stand up to them, we're such a spineless bunch. Wait what, I can't get the bus tomorrow? Greedy feckers, sure everybody has to take a cut.''

There's a bit of a 'stand up to the government as long as it doesn't affect me' attitude among a lot of people out there. I usually get the bus to and from work and will have to make other arrangements now but I fully support the workers.

April O Neill

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

No, it's not just an Irish thing - people in NZ shout "thanks driver" as they get off the bus all the time. Always amused me. Why on boards do loads of posters think common things are only done in Ireland? It's so insular

Oh my gawd, THANK YOU!

The "Only in Ireland" guff not only comes off as self-flagellating, but also navel-gazing and strangely self-regarding.

homerjay2005

Jarrod wrote: »

but I fully support the workers.

can you outline why you support them please?

homerjay2005

foxy06 wrote: »

I think you would suspect wrong

go on.......where is the money being paid so? its all going to management i suppose?

if as above, other staff are on 28k, then it balances out - there are 3,000 drivers and each of them on average would be around 49k. some higher, some lower, but we can only talk about what we know.

DrumSteve

homerjay2005 wrote: »

here is the financial report for their last figures, total pay related costs are €181million a year - each member of staff costs over €54,000 for the company, which is just astounding for driving buses.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/2430/Dublin%20Bus%20AR%202011.pdf

as to how anybody can support them, especially people who need the service, ill never know.
how you going to get to work by the way?

So because they have inconvenienced me I should automatically be against them? Do you really think all drivers are on that wage?

They have to take a stand to prevent further erosion of their wages. I support that,granted an all put strike is a pain, but they are right to look out for themselves. No one else will.

Conmaicne Mara

No, I don't support them.

I know someone on strike. He's not a driver.

47 years on the job, raised a family of four on a ~€30,000 salary. And now just as he's getting prepared for retirement he has to face these cuts.

Whether you agree with the cuts or not, surely a man has the right to strike?

My opinion: people saying the DB workers are greedy aren't actually concerned with the cuts, they're just put out that their bus didn't show up. If it was the cuts that were the issue, people would be talking about the cuts, but they're not, they're only talking about the cuts in relation to whether or not they think it was justified that their bus wasn't running.

Stereomaniac

I don't support them.

veryangryman

true-or-false wrote: »

I know someone on strike. He's not a driver.

47 years on the job, raised a family of four on a ~€30,000 salary. And now just as he's getting prepared for retirement he has to face these cuts.

Whether you agree with the cuts or not, surely a man has the right to strike?

My opinion: people saying the DB workers are greedy aren't actually concerned with the cuts, they're just put out that their bus didn't show up. If it was the cuts that were the issue, people would be talking about the cuts, but they're not, they're only talking about the cuts in relation to whether or not they think it was justified that their bus wasn't running.

On that salary and circumstances I have to say he was a fool not to seek employment elsewhere. I know I would have.

super_furry

Terrible poll options - they're either struggling freedom fighters battling an oppressive regime or they're greedy money grubbing scum who should all be fired and locked up.

The truth as always is much more nuanced than that.

Jarrod

homerjay2005 wrote: »

can you outline why you support them please?

Because I think that striking is justified given the circumstances. Dublin Bus workers took a pay cut in 2009 or 2010 if I'm not mistaken and if they feel that these new measures are a bridge too far then I think that they're right to go on strike.

Dyr

If I was the dublin bus workers I wouldnt give a f**k about what joe public thinks because joe public in Ireland generally doesnt give a flying f**k about anyone but himself.