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Aja Teehan take court case over right to home birth.

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    #212
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Premeir Inn? :D Lets hope there wont be a stag going on next door. :D

    Ok, I think it's fairly clear that the woman is a fruitcake.


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    #213
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    pwurple wrote: »
    At least if she ends up with a brain damaged child requiring lifelong care, she can sue the NHS for negligence instead of us.

    I imagine if she has a child requiring lifelong care the state (Ireland) is going to be left carrying the can substantially whether she gives birth in the UK or Ireland.


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    #214
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    It will be in a birthing center, we don't have the equivalent here and I don't' blame her for not saying which one.


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    #215
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Morag wrote: »
    It will be in a birthing center, we don't have the equivalent here and I don't' blame her for not saying which one.

    You know in those birthing centres most of the women end up in the regular delivery room anyway.


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    #216
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Aren't those birthing centers IN hospitals anyway? The differenceis the decoration.

    Ffs. If that's all she wanted there are homebirth rooms in hospitals here.


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    #217
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    pwurple wrote: »
    Aren't those birthing centers IN hospitals anyway? The differenceis the decoration.

    Ffs. If that's all she wanted there are homebirth rooms in hospitals here.

    There are very few and none for the area she lives in.


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    #218
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    So it's easier to kick up the fuss than drive to a hospital outside her area. At least she found an innovative approach how to use an unborn child to get her 15 minutes of fame.


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    #219
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    meeeeh wrote: »
    So it's easier to kick up the fuss than drive to a hospital outside her area. At least she found an innovative approach how to use an unborn child to get her 15 minutes of fame.

    I bet we'll have the obligatory Late Late appearance post birth where she once again peddles myths about birth options post c section. What'll she do if she needs an emergency section this time I wonder? Refuse it?


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    #220
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    That would be ironic alright.

    The staff could have a difficult situation if there is any sort of an emergency. Without gaining her consent I presume they would just have to try and do a vaginal delivery.


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    #221
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Morag wrote: »
    There are very few and none for the area she lives in.

    The nearest one is hardly in the UK though.


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    #222
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    pwurple wrote: »
    The nearest one is hardly in the UK though.

    There would be several in the north.


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    #223
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    pwurple wrote: »
    The nearest one is hardly in the UK though.

    Yeah she's not exactly a refugee candidate. Did she not consider Irish maternity hospitals with good VBAC rate? She's all about the drama.


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    #224
    mitosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    Morag wrote: »
    It will be in a birthing center, we don't have the equivalent here and I don't' blame her for not saying which one.

    Birthing Centre. How Californian! One family's experience:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2234807/Mother-lost-baby-staff-midwife-led-birthing-centre-failed-spot-rare-pregnancy-condition.html


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    #225
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Margot Prickly Scorer wrote: »
    True. I think the whole thing for her is having more a non-hospital birth rather than a true home birth.

    She thinks (whether right or wrong, that's for the experts I guess) that hospital births are more risky than non-hospital births and that medical professions are more likely to carry out procedures such as C-sections (imo they are just take the easiest path for both mother and child, if there is a higher than normal risk with a vaginal delivery they won't risk it).

    And then today's newspapers carry this very sad story:
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/doctor-said-our-baby-would-have-lived-if-wed-got-to-hospital-sooner-29565790.html


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    #226
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Yeah I just saw that myself.

    In the post I quoted I was trying to be as objective as possible. Being subjective, I think it's all a little daft. Home births might be great if all goes well but what about an emergency.

    Why would someone risk their child's life and their own life in order to have a nicer experience.

    From that article, this if true is very sad and an eye opener for people
    Ms Williams told the inquest that a doctor told her after Kai was stillborn that had they left for the hospital earlier, her son would be alive.


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    #227
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Margot Prickly Scorer wrote: »
    Yeah I just saw that myself.

    In the post I quoted I was trying to be as objective as possible. Being subjective, I think it's all a little daft. Home births might be great if all goes well but what about an emergency.

    Why would someone risk their child's life and their own life in order to have a nicer experience.

    From that article, this if true is very sad and an eye opener for people

    Exactly. Science and modern medicine has done so much to improve our lot in life. I cannot fathom people rejecting it out of hand to opt for more dangerous circumstances in which to do such an important thing. I think you have a responsibility to do your utmost to give birth in as safe a way as possible even if that is something you may not be 100% delighted about.
    Maternity hospitals are over crowded and no doubt less than ideal however if something goes wrong you have a highly trained team of specialists on hand to intervene and you and your babyy have a better chance as a result.
    Things go wrong in hospitals too I know and I'm not blind to that fact but I was flabbergasted at this woman's behaviour and astounded at the audicity of seeking assistance with paying her legal bills.


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    #228
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pwurple wrote: »
    Aren't those birthing centers IN hospitals anyway? The differenceis the decoration.

    Ffs. If that's all she wanted there are homebirth rooms in hospitals here.

    Ironic that a high profile court case and 100k of taxpayers funds ultimately boils down to wallpaper.

    I hope it's nice enough to warrant the stress.


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    #229
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Absolutely, fully agree with you.

    Got this from here: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aja-teehan-says-she-intends-to-become-birth-refugee-by-having-baby-in-the-uk-1.1518900
    Speaking after the costs issue was resolved, she said she was now prepared to become a “birth refugee” by travelling to the UK when she goes on maternity leave at the end of this month.

    All seems a bit dramatic calling herself a "birth refugee" I think :rolleyes:


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    #230
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Was looking at her Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/aja.teehan.5
    Really not sure how many more times I can explain to an interviewer that insurance is not a 'reason' to override a woman's ownership of her body, or her right as a parent. Am I really supposed to remain calm in the face of stupidity encapsulated in comments such as "the only reason that woman couldn't have her homebirth is because she wouldn't waive liability". Apart from being gramatically and semantically flawed and factually incorrect, why would any sane person assert that a woman should waive her right to claim compensation in the event of medical negligence, purely because she wants to birth at home? And has everyone suddenly stopped understanding the nature of insurance - it's not for when you're unhappy with the consequence of your decisions, it's for when there has been negligence, or action causing damage. I could go on ... but that's another evening's entertainment.


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    #231
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Margot Prickly Scorer wrote: »
    Absolutely, fully agree with you.

    Got this from here: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aja-teehan-says-she-intends-to-become-birth-refugee-by-having-baby-in-the-uk-1.1518900



    All seems a bit dramatic calling herself a "birth refugee" I think :rolleyes:

    When you look at the news any given evening and see the people streaming from Syria to their neighbouring countries that are poorly equipped to deal with the volumes and see what being a refugee is really like I find myself once again flabbergasted at this woman's world view.
    She has a choice of a well (albeit over crowded) run free maternity service in this country with highly trained experts on hand to assist both her and her baby and she makes out that she is being forced from the country and likens herself to a refugee. :rolleyes::mad:
    I hate it when people have no appreciation for how good they really have it.


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    #232
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    Margot Prickly Scorer wrote: »
    Was looking at her Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/aja.teehan.5


    Thats interesting. If she had been permitted to do as she wanted and her child was later to find themselves unhappy with the cirucmstances of their birth could they sue her?
    There was a child (granted with physical disabilities) in France who sued his parents for a wrongful birth and suceeded. IIRC the parents knew from a scan that there were many disabilities facing their unborn baby and were told to consider a termination as one of their options. They chose to continue with the pregnancy and the child was born with the disabilites as predicted.
    The boy's life was apparently so difficult that he came to the position where he didn't want to live but was incapable of ending his own life and so he sued his parents for not terminating the pregnancy.


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    #233
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    And then today's newspapers carry this very sad story:
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/doctor-said-our-baby-would-have-lived-if-wed-got-to-hospital-sooner-29565790.html

    It's heart breaking. But I also wonder why would HSE allow home birth 50 miles from hospital.


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    #234
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    meeeeh wrote: »
    It's heart breaking. But I also wonder why would HSE allow home birth 50 miles from hospital.

    Me too. I also wonder why anyone living 50 miles away from a hospital would think it was ok to have their baby at home both for their own safety and that of their baby.
    For me its up there with those who don't want to have their babies/ children vaccinated. I'm of the age when vaccines weren't given (MMR) and I remember my brother almost dying from measles. He spent ages in Temple Street and my parents (who had already lost one boy to cancer) were up the walls with fear and worry. When our younger sister came along the MMR was out and she was vaccinated as soon as she was old enough.
    Thanks to the strides medicine has made people have forgotten that life years ago was pretty bleak, people died in childbirth or the babies were affected from lack of oxygen etc, diseases killed people. Now all of a sudden thanks to the internet some people think a spot of time on Google educates them sufficiently to say that the medical professionals are wrong. :confused:


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    #235
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    meeeeh wrote: »
    It's heart breaking. But I also wonder why would HSE allow home birth 50 miles from hospital.

    It goes to show the amount of things the HSE DOES allow.

    Birth 50 miles from a hospital.
    Birth in a home birthing pool when a child in carlow drowned in one during the birth a few years ago.

    They allow plenty of home births. But a home vbac is (rightly) a step too far for the HSE.


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    #236
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    I never thought of that before you are allowed a home birth in a birthing pool but not a hospital one.
    I would lvoe to have the option of a birthing pool for pain relief.


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    #237
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Moonbeam wrote: »
    I never thought of that before you are allowed a home birth in a birthing pool but not a hospital one.
    I would lvoe to have the option of a birthing pool for pain relief.

    They have them in the hospitals for pain relief. They were all in use the last time I was in. very deep too, looked great! For me, I'd get in for a bit, but think it is too risky to actually give birth in one, no mammal on earth gives birth under water, and those horrible cases of babies drowning would scare the bejesus out of you.


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    #238
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    , no mammal on earth gives birth under water,

    Other then all the whales, porpoises and dolphins.


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    #239
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Morag wrote: »
    Other then all the whales, porpoises and dolphins.

    Dolphins etc give birth tail first. Last bit out is the head, which they keep above the water.

    Humans give birth head first. = quite likely to drown under water.
    I would have thought that was common sense, but common sense doesn't seem to be that common anymore.

    Here are some published papers with case reports if you want to look at the studies on this.
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/110/2/411.extract


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    #240
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,174 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    pwurple wrote: »
    Dolphins etc give birth tail first. Last bit out is the head, which they keep above the water.

    Humans give birth head first. = quite likely to drown under water.
    I would have thought that was common sense, but common sense doesn't seem to be that common anymore.

    Here are some published papers with case reports if you want to look at the studies on this.
    http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/110/2/411.extract

    I don't know if it is true or not but when I was pregnant and discussing water birth, I was told that because the water is body temperature the reflex to breathe is suppressed until the baby is lifted out of the water and into the cooler air. I wasn't even aware of any cases of babies drowning. Considering the amount of water births that take place, these must be a very rare occurrence.


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    #241
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Hmm. Never heard temperature one. Quackery?

    How would babies in hot countries ever breathe after they are born then? Their room temperature is often higher than body temperature. Any country warmer than 35 celcius would never get newborns to breathe.


    Take a look at the link I provided. Those are published studies with the rates. Depends what you consider rare.

    41 deaths recorded in 4335 water births in the UK. 51 with long term lung damage. That's significant enough to bother me, i wouldn't take a 1 to 2 percent risk of drowning my own baby, just for a comfier birth.

    Anyway, sorry for going off topic. Birthing pools are great for pain relief I'd say. It's just recommended to hop out for the pushing stage.


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