LCU League Cups 2013 not rated?

Airbender · 31-08-2013 8:59pm

You're right, this is the 2012 result. Sorry about that. So the final of the William Brennan hasn't been played yet?

Irish Warrior · 31-08-2013 10:09pm

Airbender wrote: »

You're right, this is the 2012 result. Sorry about that. So the final of the William Brennan hasn't been played yet?

From Drogheda website on August 14th:

Elm Mount beat Bray/Greystones 4-2 on Monday night so we will play them in the final. No details yet on when that may be

When its played I'm sure they'll post about it no matter the result. I'd say Drogheda will win it.

cdeb · 31-08-2013 10:59pm

Yep. And there is no Killane final, I think, as it's just a five-team round-robin group.

Also, the league fixtures were due out today per LCU rules, but no sign. I think clubs need to urge people to get more involved in the LCU. There's nobody coming through to replace people who want to step down and presumably don't have the time they'd like to give to the roles.

L1m1tless · 31-08-2013 11:12pm

Airbender wrote: »

The Killane Shield was won by Drogheda who beat Elm Mount in the final 4.5-1.5. According to the Elm Mount site, this happened on the second week of June, i.e. two-and-a-half months ago. The results apparently haven't been submitted to the ICU, and so the competition isn't rated. The same fate probably awaits this year's William Brennan Cup. Who cares?

I care cos I did pretty good in it and could do with the rating points!

Airbender · 02-09-2013 12:53am

I bet you are not the only one! So shall we all go cap in hand to Rory Delaney asking him to submit the results of the Killane and the Brennan for rating?

cdeb · 02-09-2013 7:30am

Drop him an e-mail sure. I've already e-mailed Peter Scott asking about the league fixtures for the coming season (there's an AGM-agreed deadline of 31 August for their release, and they're computerised this year, which we were told meant they'd be much easier now).

But again, it comes down to not enough people getting involved in the LCU.

Ciaran · 02-09-2013 12:34pm

For consistency's sake, could the Branagan be unrated too? I'd like my 11 rating points back.

Airbender · 03-09-2013 1:22am

The LCU website has been revamped, and every mention of the LCU Cups 2013 has been removed from it, as though these competitions never took place. So I reckon all the questions about them should be addressed to the current LCU President Charlie Talbot. His contact details are available here: http://www.leinsterchess.com/contacts.htm Drop him an e-mail.

cdeb · 03-09-2013 1:15pm

Looks like the league fixtures are imminent anyway.

Airbender · 03-09-2013 3:20pm

So now we can relax and forget that we have played in the ghost cups and even paid the fees for them to the LCU who couldn't be bothered to post the results on their site and to submit them for rating? Maybe the LCU will do the honourable thing and declare these cups null and void, subsequently reimbursing the participating clubs?

Airbender · 06-09-2013 4:16pm

Latest news: the final of the Brennan Cup will be played tomorrow. The Killane and the Brennan Cups will be included in the September rating list.

Irish Warrior · 08-09-2013 6:27pm

From Elm Mount website

Elm Mount finished runners-up in the William Brennan Cup, losing 2.5 to 3.5 to Drogheda in the final.

Airbender · 08-09-2013 9:20pm

Irish Warrior wrote: »

I'd say Drogheda will win it (the Brennan Cup).

No surprise then. Anybody knows who won the Killane this year?

cdeb · 08-09-2013 9:35pm

Bray (see post #18 in this thread)

Three-in-a-row for Drogheda. Matches St Benildus' achievement in the Killane. Don't think any other club has done three-in-a-row in the cups. Presume there's been an instance in the Armstrong?

EnPassant · 08-09-2013 10:48pm

cdeb wrote: »

Bray (see post #18 in this thread)

Three-in-a-row for Drogheda. Matches St Benildus' achievement in the Killane. Don't think any other club has done three-in-a-row in the cups. Presume there's been an instance in the Armstrong?

Elm Mount have won the Branagan for the last 3 years

Phibsboro have won it 3 times in a row also.

See http://www.irlchess.com/branagan-cup/

cdeb · 21-09-2013 7:37pm

I see the September ratings list is officially out now, with no Brennan or Killane. So presumably these now aren't going to get rated?

L1m1tless · 21-09-2013 7:49pm

cdeb wrote: »

I see the September ratings list is officially out now, with no Brennan or Killane. So presumably these now aren't going to get rated?

Yeah, saw that too. Bad form if they are not rated. :mad:

Airbender · 21-09-2013 8:31pm

Airbender wrote: »

So now we can forget that we have played in the ghost cups and even paid the fees for them to the LCU who couldn't be bothered to post the results on their site and to submit them for rating. Maybe the LCU will do the honourable thing and declare these cups null and void, subsequently reimbursing the participating clubs?

It seems like what I said weeks ago is still relevant. The following is from Rory Delaney's e-mail to me:

"Both [League cups] will be included in time for the September rating list."

So it turned out to be an empty promise - unless the ICU are going to adjust the rating list by the end of the month to accommodate the League cups.

L1m1tless · 05-10-2013 2:04am

Anybody know if these will ever be rated?

Airbender · 05-10-2013 1:43pm

I don't think this will ever happen. Also, I don't think that our club will enter teams for the Killane Shield and the William Brennan Cup in April 2014. There's no point in paying the money to the LCU for participation in the ghost cups where the results are never announced or rated.

cdeb · 05-10-2013 2:12pm

You'd be best e-mailing the tournament controller about the ratings.

(Edit - actually, maybe not going on the e-mail above)

Hard to argue against Airbender's post though.

Chessrookie · 05-10-2013 3:28pm

I think the LCU dropped the ball on this. A lot of juniors play in these cups (in the middle of exam season). If these games are not going to be rated, it takes away a big motivating factor.
It was actually very annoying that the Brannigan was rated whilst the other two were not. I felt this was a slight against the players who were not in the highest rating band. The Killane was finished well before the Brannigan as we're all the Brennan league matches.

L1m1tless · 05-10-2013 3:30pm

The rating points gained/lost in these cups actually would have a big effect on what players play in what divisions in our club.

cdeb · 05-10-2013 3:41pm

This is presumably all the ICU Chairman's fault...

Airbender · 05-10-2013 4:10pm

The LCU officers are solely responsible for that: they hold the LCU League cup competitions. Charlie Talbot, the LCU President, is pictured here handing over the William Brennan Cup to the Drogheda captain in 2012: http://www.icu.ie/images/display.php?id=754. Drogheda kept the cup in 2013 but the results have never been announced or rated, as though the League Cups never took place. No explanation has been given, even though it was requested. Charlie Talbot is too big for his shoes now, he doesn't even bother to reply to incoming mail from the clubs. If you ask me, he's hardly the kind of President we need.

cdeb · 05-10-2013 4:13pm

L1m1tless · 05-10-2013 4:21pm

Surely it's down to the controller to submit results.

Airbender · 05-10-2013 6:43pm

Chessrookie wrote: »

I think the LCU dropped the ball on this. A lot of juniors play in these cups (in the middle of exam season). If these games are not going to be rated, it takes away a big motivating factor.
It was actually very annoying that the Brannigan was rated whilst the other two were not. I felt this was a slight against the players who were not in the highest rating band. The Killane was finished well before the Brannigan as we're all the Brennan league matches.

I can't agree more. It was down to the controller, Rory Delaney, to submit the results. As you already know, he e-mailed me in early September saying the following: "Both [League cups] will be included in time for the September rating list." This turned out to be an empty promise. I contacted him again after the September rating list was published but this time he ignored my mail, the same way as Charlie Talbot did. The fact that Rory Delaney has since resigned as the tournament controller doesn't relieve him of his responsibility to submit the results.

As for the LCU, its President is responsible for the competitions they organise, especially the League and the Cups. Collecting the money, and then removing every mentioning of the Cup competitions from the LCU website was a cowardly way to behave. Not giving any explanation of that but, instead, distancing themselves from the clubs who had every right to inquire about the Cups results was even more horrible. This is much worse than the toiletgate, which affected just one player. The new scandal affects the majority of the clubs and scores of players who participated in the Cups. I believe the clubs deserve better.

cdeb · 05-10-2013 7:00pm

Airbender wrote: »

This is much worse than the toiletgate, which affected just one player.

Toiletgate involved cheating and physical assault.

This involves a few players not getting a few ratings points, which doesn't actually mean all that much as their rating will catch up to their strength naturally anyway.

Seriously, that's a ridiculously hyperbolic comparison.

Airbender · 05-10-2013 7:36pm

Toiletgate involved the confirmed (and self-confessed) fact of cheating and the cover-up that followed, so the cheat got off scot-free. The fact of physical assault has never been confirmed officially, and so any mentioning of it may amount to defamation, so I suggest that we tread very carefully here.

Cupgate too involved what may be regarded as cheating (clubs cheated of their moneys paid to the LCU for the entry for non-existent competitions), which affected a couple of hundred players. I am a bit surprised that St. Benildus are keen to let it drop. Let's see what the other clubs think.

LCU League Cups 2013 not rated?

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